Can't take 20 on trapfinding, are you serious?!?!

[ShadowcatX]

nogoodscallywag wrote:

Just because a thread is old doesn't mean it cannot be replied to.

No, but it does mean that it probably shouldn't be replied to. DUH!

Quote:

And just because he is a developer doesn't mean he is Dictator.

No, he isn't. He does, however, know more about the rules than you do.

Quote:

The game can be ruled by whoever the GM is. If a GM wants to rule differently, it's his game, his prerogative.

Really? I did not know that. I'm sure no one here knew that. Thank you for sharing such a valuable insight. . .

Wow, guys, did you know a DM can over rule stuff? Man, that like should be in the book or something. . .

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Summon an unseen servant dragging a bag of flour.

[seebs]

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Then the GM is ruling against RAW, RAI, and official statements from the rules team.

Have fun with THAT campaign...

To be fair:

I have never been in a good game that did not include at least an occasional ruling which clearly went against all of those standards, governed only by a mix of Rule 0 and the desire to make the game work.

Or, to quote the original wording of Rule 0:

Gary Gygax wrote:

AFTERWORD

It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters given in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons volumes, you are creator and finel arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a whole first, your campaign next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons & Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do!

The realization that the intent of a specific rule may in a particular circumstance contradict the intent of the rules as a whole is a crucial one for running the game to best effect.

Every so often, the GM just has to stop and say "There was too much build-up for this, and the idea was too good, for a natural 1 to be allowed to stand. Roll again."

[Gorbacz]

Taking Gary Gygax seriously is quite hard because he hardly ever took himself, his game or his rules too seriously.

[seebs]

Gorbacz wrote:

Taking Gary Gygax seriously is quite hard because he hardly ever took himself, his game or his rules too seriously.

I rather think that was his point.

I once wrote to ask him for permission to riff off the classic "Good Isn't Stupid" for an article called "Evil Isn't Stupid" (which was graciously granted), but of course I've never actually had the time to follow it up.

[Sean K Reynolds]

In a general sense, yes, the GM can make house rules, and SHOULD make house rules to suit the gaming group.

In the specific sense of "you can take 20 with Perception to look for traps," the RAW and RAI are clear, and the rules team has explained why it should be so. If, despite all of that, the GM is still going to go against that rule, good luck with that campaign.

That's all I'm saying.

[seebs]

Yeah. In this case, I have a hard time justifying that ruling in terms of "but this is truer to the spirit of the rules" or "this makes the game more fun". It really comes across more like "haha sucks to be you, my traps are inevitable".

It'd be a red flag for sure.

[Ansel Krulwich]

I wouldn't touch that campaign with a 10-foot pole.

Also, I advise you to purchase a 10-foot pole. Useful for probing pits, flagstones, murky liquids, and inevitable traps from a safe distance.

[ericthetolle]

Of course you shouldn't allow rogues to take 20 for trap detection. That would interfere with the careful balance Paizo has made between rogues and command word activated wonderous devices of Detect Traps. If we allow people to just take 20 on searching for traps, it might lead to someone playing a mundane character over a spell caster- and that would just be wrong.

Remember, players should be punished for wanting to play a rogue, and that means traps that go off if you try to search for them.

[Gorbacz]

Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I wouldn't touch that campaign with a 10-foot pole.

Also, I advise you to purchase a 10-foot pole. Useful for probing pits, flagstones, murky liquids, and inevitable traps from a safe distance.

I really don't get this whole obsession D&D players have with abnormally tall citizens of Poland. Is this some Gary Gygax thing? Did some huge fellow called Zbigniew save Gary's life in a back alley of Chicago, and Gary felt obliged to immortalize that? I'll never cease to wonder.

[Aranna]

Gorbacz wrote:

Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I wouldn't touch that campaign with a 10-foot pole.

Also, I advise you to purchase a 10-foot pole. Useful for probing pits, flagstones, murky liquids, and inevitable traps from a safe distance.

I really don't get this whole obsession D&D players have with abnormally tall citizens of Poland. Is this some Gary Gygax thing? Did some huge fellow called Zbigniew save Gary's life in a back alley of Chicago, and Gary felt obliged to immortalize that? I'll never cease to wonder.

That's hardly an honor... That poor citizen of Poland is being employed as a trap tester. The tragedy!

[Gorbacz]

With the US Presidents routinely forgetting about Poland, we need all the help we can get.

[Artanthos]

Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I wouldn't touch that campaign with a 10-foot pole.

Also, I advise you to purchase a 10-foot pole. Useful for probing pits, flagstones, murky liquids, and inevitable traps from a safe distance.

Too many spells with a 10' blast radius.

I personally use an 11' pole that breaks down into four 2'8" sections.

[JohnF]

Artanthos wrote:

Ansel Krulwich wrote:

I wouldn't touch that campaign with a 10-foot pole.

Also, I advise you to purchase a 10-foot pole. Useful for probing pits, flagstones, murky liquids, and inevitable traps from a safe distance.

Too many spells with a 10' blast radius.

I personally use an 11' pole that breaks down into four 2'8" sections.

I use a goblin tied to the end of the pole. That gives an extra foot or so of reach.

Furthermore, goblins are inquisitive (and more than a little foolhardy). So they'll reach into awkward crevices, tug on small handles, etc.