It's now up here:
The Genius Guide to the Time Thief
This is the first collaboration between Veronic and Super Genius, but not the last! In fact, we'll have a print version of the Time Thief at Gen Con and a signing with Veronic at the NeonCon booth (#2435). More details soon!
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
Well, I love the cover. :) I'm going to pick this one up very soon. I plan to acquire a lot of the SGG books - I have thoroughly enjoyed the few I have.
Sean
4WFG
It's now up here:
The Genius Guide to the Time Thief
This is the first collaboration between Veronic and Super Genius, but not the last! In fact, we'll have a print version of the Time Thief at Gen Con and a signing with Veronic at the NeonCon booth (#2435). More details soon!
She she just a cover model? Or is there more Veronic inside?
Let me guess. The Time Thief's primary stat is charisma?
I agree, and I'm a heterosexual male. It just doesn't seem right.
I will say the first thing it reminded me of was the Evony ads.
"Travel through time now, my lord!"
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In general SGG uses drawn art for both covers and interiors. Since Veronic is herself a gamer, we got to talking with her and had the idea to put a project together using her fantasy costume work. That turned into a custom photo shoot for this product.
The character presented is a reasonable look for one typical build of a time thief, and we treated it as our "iconic" time thief.
And yes, much like bards and sorcerers, as a time thief's power is fueled by interior force of self, Charisma is the class' core stat.
This does not represent a change in how future SGG products will be illustrated, though we might well do another such special project in the future.
Also, while no one here has been the least bit inappropriate, I'd like to ask commentators continue that wonderful trend. Feel free to come after me for the design or the concept of the book or its illustrations, but Veronic reads these boards as she is a gamer and a fan of Pathfinder, so I'd like to ask everyone keep that in mind when crafting any criticism of her personally. As I said no one in this thread has even come close to that line, but a few private messages to me have, and I want to make sure none of that spills over into public posting.
But only about Veronic as a person. The design choices here were mine, including art direction, and I'm fair game. :D
Prince of Persia would like some words with you Owen :)
I am very interested in seeing this design!
I am always glad to see something new and inventive, I like the idea of photographs; maybe we will get around to having one of our artists use her as a model for a piece of artwork for one our patronage projects; (maybe Questhaven when we do the section on how to use SGG classes in our microsetting).
I think this is very cool on many levels, and Veronica Fay makes an excellent model for this.
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The class is interesting and all and all well done. There was a couple of powers that made me pause. Not that they are over powered but ones I thought might be strong but only play testing would tell for sure. It captures the feel of the Prince of Persia while making it work and fit in with D20 system.
As for the photo's they are nice and she is pretty. But she really should have died her hair black or brown to fit the Persian theme better and a hip scarf would have added to the look you guys was going for.
As I mentioned not a big fan of photo's in place of art. But they are far from a deal breaker for me as long as the photo's are tasteful. I am just offering some constructive feedback on the photo's for future cases.
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The class is interesting and all and all well done. There was a couple of powers that made me pause. Not that they are over powered but ones I thought might be strong but only play testing would tell for sure. It captures the feel of the Prince of Persia while making it work and fit in with D20 system.
Thank you! I look forward to see your review, and find out what you consider questionable. I confess that a LOT of powers got rewritten and rejiggered based on playtest feedback, and I look forward to seeing what revelations a few hundred more groups playing with it can produce.
As for the photo's they are nice and she is pretty. But she really should have died her hair black or brown to fit the Persian theme better and a hip scarf would have added to the look you guys was going for.
Fair enough!
As I mentioned not a big fan of photo's in place of art. But they are far from a deal breaker for me as long as the photo's are tasteful. I am just offering some constructive feedback on the photo's for future cases.
All fan feedback is welcome. Yours is extra-welcome, given your history of useful feedback.
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ARG! I am having one of those days... died? died her hair? Dyed her hair. *sigh* is it tomorrow yet?
As for the powers, keep in mind that was a gut reaction to a first read. I always read the class abilities first. Then go back and reread the whole thing, reading the class abilities again. That gives me time to think about them more.
I think part of it is, the class abilities are just so unique that it is hard to compare them. Meaning you would really need to read them and think about how effective it is to other stuff at those levels.
I look forward to checking this one out. The work day cannot pass fast enough. And if its anywhere up to the standard of the other SGG products, I have a player who will love this. Again I must request that you turn off your 'kolo's campaign needs' mind infiltrator.
I have a player joining my game who wants to play a rogue-like character and is a huge prince of persia fan... If he doesnt go bonkers for this when i show it to him, i will be shocked.
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Dark_Mistress: Yes, the drawback to punishing the envelope in an effort to provide some really different options, is that it can be hard to gauge just how those will work with existing options. For this, playtesting is crucial, but still imperfect.
Kolo: Sorry, man. Reading your mind gives us some of our best ideas!
Yes, the drawback to punishing the envelope in an effort to provide some really different options, is that it can be hard to gauge just how those will work with existing options. For this, playtesting is crucial, but still imperfect.
Aww, man! Now you're doing it! It's spreading...
Dark Mistress, you are apparently contagious. I request that you and Owen K. C. Stephens be quarantined for the sanity of all who type until the contagion has passed.
I have to get this. Time traveling campaigns are some of the most fun, but are very difficult to pull off without players screwing up the process just because they think they know how to throw a monkeywrench in your plans and have the desire to do so "just because". Any advice or ideas to cover my bases in that regard would be welcome.
Lol, see now dark mistress' typos seem normal. Mispelling the word sure, but they are rational typos. Owens on the other hand. Punishing as opposed to pushing. I think freud had something to do with this one. But that is just my opinion.
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Lol, see now dark mistress' typos seem normal. Mispelling the word sure, but they are rational typos. Owens on the other hand. Punishing as opposed to pushing. I think freud had something to do with this one. But that is just my opinion.Maybe it was a bad envelope?
Or maybe the envelope liked being "punished" I mean really who doesn't from time to time? :D
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Or maybe the envelope liked being "punished" I mean really who doesn't from time to time? :D
*Clears throat*
Nope. Not with a 10-foot-pole and I touching that.
Now I wish I had time thief powers, so I could hop back in time and prevent that gaffe from occurring to begin with.
Sadly, when I am tired and typing fast, I am MORE likely to stick in the wrong word that misspell the right one. And, of course, spell-checkers don't help with wrong-word-syndrome.
Or maybe the envelope liked being "punished" I mean really who doesn't from time to time? :D*Clears throat*
Nope. Not with a 10-foot-pole and I touching that.
what about with a Telescoping Rod?
but seriously, i like that supergenius is able to do whatever needed to the envelope in order to create new characters, and let us develop different kinds of characters that were not previously an option. The classes have always been my favorite of your lines (close second is loot for less) and I support and look forward to future envelope manipulation as needed.
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Ok, so it's not Jenny!?!?!
Looks intriging... I'll pic it up and check it out.
I'm curious to see how the time mechanic is handled.Who is Veroinc?
Veronic's profile is here. Pay particular attention to whom the pirmary account is registered.
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My review is up here, and at ENWorld. On a side note if you guys ever want me to add my review to Drivethru I would. But since i buy all my PDF's here to support Paizo and they don't allow you to post a review unless you bought the product there at RPGNow/Drivethru. So err anyways if you wanted to send me a code to allow me to post the review up over their for your products I reviewed in the past I would. Just offering no worries either way.
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My review is up here, and at ENWorld. On a side note if you guys ever want me to add my review to Drivethru I would. But since i buy all my PDF's here to support Paizo and they don't allow you to post a review unless you bought the product there at RPGNow/Drivethru. So err anyways if you wanted to send me a code to allow me to post the review up over their for your products I reviewed in the past I would. Just offering no worries either way.
That's a great idea DM! If you'll send a list of SGG products you've reviewed, and an email address for us to send coupons for free DriveThru versions, to OStephens (at) aol (dot) com, I'll make that happen.
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My review is up here, and at ENWorld. On a side note if you guys ever want me to add my review to Drivethru I would. But since i buy all my PDF's here to support Paizo and they don't allow you to post a review unless you bought the product there at RPGNow/Drivethru. So err anyways if you wanted to send me a code to allow me to post the review up over their for your products I reviewed in the past I would. Just offering no worries either way.That's a great idea DM! If you'll send a list of SGG products you've reviewed, and an email address for us to send coupons for free DriveThru versions, to OStephens (at) aol (dot) com, I'll make that happen.
You want me to list all the SGG stuff I have reviewed? boy that could take awhile.
Ok so I finally had a moment to sit down and read this. So as usual, a few comments and questions.
1. First, extremely minor nitpick:
On page two the first paragraph,
"Most of the time thief’s effects are subtle to outsider observers, seeming to be more good fortune and preternatural speed than control over time."
I believe you likely meant either outsiders or outside observers there.
2. Next I really like the idea of time motes, though I am curious why you decided on an advanced talent (Time Bandit) instead of a feat to add to the time thief's pool. Its not uncommon for you to include a feat or two in a product like this, and it seems this is along the lines of a barbarians rage, or bard's song, and should have a feat to add to the supply instead of a talent. Why the shift? Do you think it is too strong to allow as a feat?
3. Also one of my players asked when he looked at this so I thought I should make sure, when you say a mote can be used once a round, you mean one use of a mote not one single mote per round right? Otherwise the advanced talent time after time would be basically a prerequisite for all advanced talents besides time bandit. So my assumption is you mean one use of a mote per round, which can cost 2 motes, and that Time After Time allows two uses per round (possibly spending 4 motes in a single round). Is this correct?
4. I definitely like that you made it possible to get trap finding as a time thief. Its not automatic so you have to spend for it, but given the overlap between rogue and time thief, I am glad that the time thief is able to fill that crucial 'trap person' role.
5. I kind of have a love hate feeling of for some of the names of talents and powers. 'Bolt Time', 'Back to the Future' etc amuse the movie geek in me. But I know when a player announces the use of this power in a game, no matter how he describes it will cause someone at my table to wave his arms around 'ala' the matrix, or someone to ask him if his vision of the future came at 88 miles per hour. I don't mind a break in immersion now and again, but I think this can be potentially disruptive at some tables where discipline is not high, and there's a lot of work to get 'deep into' a game session (mine is definately among these).
6. That said, i like the avenums, bolt time and entropy provide the time thief some much needed offense. You will probably catch flack from Entropy's d8's but I have done alot of math over the years of average damage outputs including for rogues. I am unconcerned about xd8. Feel free to refer any one who complains it does too much damage to the dpr olympics for say an archer so they can see that even if entropy always hits, it does way less then an archer fighter, and has limited uses per day.
7. While personal time is full of flavor and a great idea for the class, i think it's end result is lack luster. Spending a very limited ability, just in case you screw up seems a little weak to me compared to some of the other avenums. The fact that it is still used even if you dont need it is problematic. It seems like the 3.5 smite effect, where you end up saving something over and over again, 'just in case i REALLY need it' and end up never using it because you are worried about wasting it and then needing it immediately after.
8. With time cross do the two durations happens concurrently or consecutively? If a time thief misses a time cross, she can try again for up to 1 minute per level. The effect also lasts one minute per level. Is the end of the effect measured from the first attempt, or the successful attempt. IE Veronic is a level 15 time thief. She is sneaking about the town center. She attempts to use time cross on a target and misses. The target doesn't notice and she follows him for 10 minutes, and then tries again. This time she hits. Does she have 5 minutes to use the effect or 15?
9. Last since it's a hot topic I'll add my opinion to the photo shoot. I think it was well done and definitely adds to the product, even if it adds differently then traditional artwork. I can vouch for a few members of my group who i showed a print out to who said that they liked it. It got their attention that's for sure. So while I'd hate to see live models be used in all SGG products, the occasional photo shoot if done to this standard when it is appropriate for the product gets a hearty voice of approval from my side.
Overall as always I really like this product. I think it will add a lot to my game, and particularly for my player who seems very interested in playing this kind of character. So thanks again for a great product which genuinely add to the content I have available for my games.
you know, you guys (SGG) are going to drive me crazy one of these days. It seems i have been half conciously sketching out a guild of time theives and how that might impact my campaign world. Now i need to come up with complete rules or some way to hand wave chronomancy to make my creation work. I swear i am going to change my world's name to Super Genius Games made me do it. The impact of a secret organization of chronomancers/thieves is going to be interesting. It might be the biggest change since I added dudes who bind with and ride dragons to my campaign world...
Bought the book, then also got several others and the Adventurer's Handbook as well.
On the topic of a live model, cool, a nice break from what is seen as the norm.
Keep up the great releases and I am looking forward to more live photo work for future supplements.
This and the Shadow Assassin are my favorite products that you guys have put out (with the Godling in a close second). I just wanted to say thanks for what you do and to keep it up.
3.5 taught my group to stay away from 3pp, but SGG has brought us back.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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To the contrary, their low prices have been helping me keep a budget.
I just have to say- Maybe they should get something like charisma to AC, because otherwise Veronic would have a very low armor class in that ensemble.
Heh, well she imposes a circumstance penalty to foes attacks, since they're drooling and tripping over their tongues.
No offence to Veronic, she's a very pretty woman, but not my type. Plus that cover hides her most stunning attribute.
To the contrary, their low prices have been helping me keep a budget.
I just have to say- Maybe they should get something like charisma to AC, because otherwise Veronic would have a very low armor class in that ensemble.
you can use motes to raise AC if i remember correctly so while i think the overwhelming majority of time thiefs will still wear light armor, you dont HAVE to wear armor.
So my player who is playing this class finally made a game this past sunday. So I wanted to post a little feedback.
The general concensus is overwhelmingly positive. The player came over a few hours before the game to put together their character. This is a player that has a long history of having difficulty making a character (the party was level 5 so there was a fair number of choices that had to be made). In the past helping this player make a character has felt like pulling teeth on an angry rhino.
First off, this product grabs people attention. I had a fairly high quality print out of the pdf sitting on the table (along with my laptop) and everyone who passed by including my roomate and a mutual friend who dont play RPGs asked "Hey whats that?". When the other players showed up for the game they too game it a full read through (at least I presume they were reading) as they arrived to the game.
Next, this class is fun. The afformentioned player dove into the product and more or less put the character together without difficulty. He loved the flavor and kept asking excitedly 'If I use ability x can I describe it as if I was going all matrixy to dodge the attack?', or 'I dont want people to know that I am a time thief, could I maybe just have others see me as just moving really fast, and try to pass myself off as a normal rogue?'. I was pleased that both the mechanics and the flavor did alot to get a player who is normally lax on his description and his imagination to really get 'into' the class.
One of the real advantages of all these 20 level classes SGG puts out is that rather then 'rogue' or 'monk', the class and it's basic description instantly conjures up new and specific ideas for a character. The player happened to be a real prince of persia fan so obviously this particular flavor spoke to him, but thats the idea right? Finding the class that works for the individual. And in this case, the whole package comes neatly in a single pdf rather then scattered in a bunch of books. This made it really easy for the player to make his choices and get the flavor he was looking for. Pick a few talents, take a few feats (he chose a two weapon fighting route).
In game the character played well. The character easily slid into the 'skill monkey' role for the party as the monk/rogue was not present at this session. In combat he wasnt as effective as say a rogue in dealing damage most of the time, but he wasn't punchless either. He applied some useful debuffs and a well placed entropy had a real impact on one of the harder encounters of the session.
But most of all the player was having fun describing how he did what he did and actually doing it. That is the biggest positive feedback I can give, in that the player really enjoyed playing the class. I had fun having him in my party. In the end, thats all that needs to be there anyway.
Use Magic Device is not listed as a class skill. Oversight or deliberate design choice?