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If a character goes from 15 to 16 constitution at 4th level, is the new hit point bonus retroactive from 1st level or does he get +3 from 4 level on only?
As I understand, when a character's CON mod increases, he gains that number of hitpoints(equal to the number his mod increased) per level. If a fifth level character's CON score increases by 4(thusly increasing the CON mod by 2), that character's hitpoints increase by 10. Two points for each level, five levels.
The character you speak of would get a total of 6 extra hitpoints. 3 for fourth level's bonus from the CON mod, and 3 points retroactive(1 from each of the three levels prior).
Similarly, if a character wears a magic item which grants a bonus to CON, let's say "+2 CON" for the sake of argument; then that character will get 1 extra hitpoint for every level as long as he wears the amulet. Should he ever take it off, then he will lose those hitpoints.
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After 25 years of playing d&d/pathfinder, I can speak for what happens at my table. Bonuses to Con received will affect the newest level for which the bonus applies, and thereafter.
Think of it in narrative terms, not gamist: there is a gradual improvement throughout the levels such that a 12th level character is not suddenly going to get 12 extra hit points just because their ability score increased by 1.
Sorry, not retroactive at my table.
After 25 years of playing d&d/pathfinder, I can speak for what happens at my table. Bonuses to Con received will affect the newest level for which the bonus applies, and thereafter.
Think of it in narrative terms, not gamist: there is a gradual improvement throughout the levels such that a 12th level character is not suddenly going to get 12 extra hit points just because their ability score increased by 1.
Sorry, not retroactive at my table.
This is a common enough house rule.
If you are looking for RAW, I do believe that the increase is retroactive.
Either way works, I think.
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After 25 years of playing d&d/pathfinder, I can speak for what happens at my table. Bonuses to Con received will affect the newest level for which the bonus applies, and thereafter.
Think of it in narrative terms, not gamist: there is a gradual improvement throughout the levels such that a 12th level character is not suddenly going to get 12 extra hit points just because their ability score increased by 1.
Sorry, not retroactive at my table.
I see your point of view and agree with it on those terms, but just for the sake of argument lets look at something similar.
What if a player gets an increase to his INT so that he gets another skill point, is that retroactive in the way that he gets the skill points he would have had at those previous levels were his INT that high?
Back to CON, if a chracter puts on the amulet I mentioned earlier(+2 CON, increasing the mod by 1), would you rule that that grants only one extra hitpoint, or one extra hitpoint per level? The former would be more in line with your ruling in regards to leveling; but then it seems like quite an expensive trinket(based on game pricing) for such little benefit.
PHB p 58 right column #4 makes it clear that HP are increased based on the new con score.
Note that many designers suggest not awarding increased Skill Points for Intelligence increases from magic items that might later be removed since it greatly increases bookkeeping to track what Skill Points come from raw intellect and which from magical bumps.
Well that and ...
Headband of Intellect
...This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.
Fox’s Cunning
...This spell doesn’t grant extra skill points.
On a side note, I house ruled that you do gain retroactive skill points if your intel goes up. The in-game explanation is that your increased intelligence allows you to "look back" on what you know, have seen, and have heard about, and apply some of that knowledge to your own abilities.
My group is an exceptional group, as I have crowed about many times previous. No real risk of metagame power-tricks or such, and they all roleplay the "epiphany" that often comes with this sort of skill boost.
Ultimately, I found it no different than allowing the "Open Mind" feat, and made some players feel like they weren't desperately Up-A-Creek-Without-A-Paddle when they realized how few skill points an Intel 10 dwarven knight gets. Your mileage may vary.
In regards to retroactive hit points, look at Con (partly at least) as a sort of "muscle memory". Many people with high con aren't neccessarily more physically fit than others, they simply have learned to subconciously regulate themselves better, by pacing themselves, controlling their breathing, or better nutrition. An increase in this subconcious efficiency, when applied to their "learned" combat skill in terms of dodging/diminishing/taking blows, seems quite appropriate to me to be applicable to all levels of said combat skill, IE all their hit dice. At least, thats how I look at it.
If a character goes from 15 to 16 constitution at 4th level, is the new hit point bonus retroactive from 1st level or does he get +3 from 4 level on only?
I can see the logic of either side here. You could pick one stance or take a compromise position: for example, you only get 1/2 credit for retro CON bonuses. For another perspective, the much-maligned 4th edition (gasp!) PHB says that,"If you increased your CON score, increase you hit points by 1 (as if you had your new CON score when you were at 1st level)."
I might point out that Con is not treated retroactively. Your current Con score effects your concentration skill, your fort save, and your current hps by the formula:
hp = (rolled hit points)+(number HD)*(Con modifier)
In order for something about your hps to be "retroactive" you'd have to go back and do the rolling part of your hp again.
A boost to Int is just as "retroactive" in that all your Int based skills are effected by the new score, your spell DCs (for a wizard) are all effected, etc. You don't learn new skills because you only learn skills when you level, and you have already leveled for those past ... levels (just like you only roll for hps when you level).
Just look at the barbarian's rage class feature. It provides a +4 to Con, and the character gains 2 hit points per hit die. So OF COURSE Con increases are retroactive in regards to hit points. One of the base classes' signature feature is based on that mechanic.
With 30 year of playing D&D, I'm pulling rank/seniority on Veritas.
With over 30 years, I join you.
And good point, SmiloDan.
I just want to point out that the DMG 3.5 table for the Wizard NPC grants both retroactive skill points for permanent increases, as well as for the headband of intellect.
For the DM, retroactively adding the skill points can be a blessing (since making stats for advanced wizards can be a pain if not [at which level did she raise Int to 20 again?]), but adding extra skill points for magical items seems to be simply wrong and extra cumbersome.
The designer of the table in the DMG seems to have made a mistake in allowing the magical enhancement bonus to add skill points.
But I do not know about retroactive skill points for permanent increases.
Retroactive.
And PF does it right by making Int increases retroactive, too. Saves a lot of headache if you want to create characters at higher levels (GMs often do that) or just want to see whether you don't have too many/few HPs or skill points.
And the explanation for retroactive increases are as valid as those against.