my group joined the pirates however i felt the sargavan government worked better as an adversary rather then the red mantis. i also involved the trading companies more, sort of a pirates of the carribean vs east indian trading company deal. it worked great.
At this stage I think my group is looking to form an agreement with the Sargavan Govt and then try to get a second faction involved. I don't mind this too much as it gives me two good rivals and good RP opportunities as my PCs have to juggle the competing interests and potential conflicts of their agreement with two factions. Gives the Bard an opportunity to shine.
So I guess if the factions do have primary interests and could accept the idea of forming a coalition what would it take to convince them to join up aside from splitting costs. I'm guessing:
Pirates - no to deals with Red Mantis, primarily wants the wealth
Sargavan - no to deals with Pirates, reluctant to deal with Pathfinder? Primarily want the wealth and expand regional influence.
Red Mantis - no to deals with Pirates, primarily want the lost temple and its relics. Prestige/reputation within faction a bonus.
Pathfinder - no to deals with Aspis, primarily after lost knowledge, historical artifacts and expand regional influence. Wealth a bonus.
Aspis - no to deals with Pathfinder, primarily wants the wealth and the potential wealth from exotic artifact sales. Prestige a bonus.
Two of the five players couldn't make it tonight, so we did a side trek. Adapting the Pathfinder Society adventure "Perils of the Pirate Pact" was easy as the party were on the river having just left Kalabuto.
It went well, was good fun, and part of the reward was getting a ride further up the river, saving another day.
Does anyone have a blank map of the path traveled to Tazion?
I ended up just using the maps from Sargava: Lost Colony and The Heart of the Jungle and pointed out the planned trip.
Its a shame there isn't a map to give out to the players.
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My group is trying to form some sort of coalition by getting multiple factions working together. Obviously any combination that has the Pirates-Red Mantis and/or the Aspis Consortium-Pathfinder Society won't work, but could a combination that voids the conflicting parties work. I'm thinking that given the primary motivations of the different factions means it possibly could work.
Say the Sargavan Government (Money, trade, political influence), Pathfinder Society (history, exploration) and possibly the Red Mantis (temple and artefacts)? Given the motivations it could work initially and then be a good challenge for my group to try and hold the coalition together. The Bard is naturally the driving force behind this so it would bring his abilities to the fore.
Maybe three is too many and it should be just kept to two. But then again the complexity and diversity could make it fun. What do people think?
That sounds like a great idea. I'll work that into the mix when I get to this adventure!
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There's a thread called "Unified Expedition" in which a few of us are talking/typing about it. It should get a bit more to it as we start hitting book 3. My guys have managed to organise a coalition made up of them, the Sargavan Govt. and the Pathfinder Society.
Based on the write ups of the different factions and their interests in Savinth-Yhi in the book I took this approach to negotiations:
Pirates - no to deals with Red Mantis, primarily wants wealth and would push for a majority share of the wealth/treasury (60-75%). The most flexible of the lot as they're not fussed about holding territory, but would expect a cut from all land and artefact sales. They would demand any technologies or magical items related to sea travel or boats with no split or sharing. Most likely partner: Pathfinder Society
Sargavan - no to deals with Pirates. Primarily want the wealth and not willing to take less than 75% share of the treasury. Not flexible on control of the city and any magical item/artefacts tied to defense of the city and military/mass warfare. They'd also want any artefacts/items that could unify or divide the people. Most likely partner: Pathfinder Society or Red Mantis
Red Mantis - no to deals with Pirates, primarily want the lost temple and its relics. Will want sole control/occupation of the temple and everything inside. No interference or non-Mantis people to go inside the temple. Prestige/reputation within faction a bonus and they'll want a cut of the treasury. Most likely partner: Aspis Consortium or Sagarvan Govt.
Pathfinder - no to deals with Aspis, primarily after lost knowledge, artefacts and expand regional influence. They want full access to historical sites in the ruins and artefacts and would not be flexible on this. Want a lodge on site within the ruins. Want majority of artefacts. Wealth a bonus, but expect a cut of the treasury. Most likely partner: Sagarvan Govt. or Pirates
Aspis - no to deals with Pathfinder, primarily wants the wealth and the potential wealth from exotic artefact sales. Prestige a bonus. They'd want majority of treasury and artefact sales (75%). They expect to be able to set up a trading outpost there. Most likely partner: Red Mantis
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How are people finding the pacing of this one? In terms of game sessions/hours I'm thinking my group will race through this. In the first session we did lengthy negotiations to set up a coaltion of two factions, picked up the Tempest and knocked over his challenges, the riots, a couple of random encounters and finished up with the cockfight (brought it ahead of the Salt Mines). I'm thinking at this rate we'll blitz through this book in about 3 maybe 4 sessions. Did others find it quick too?
For the first book we took 6 sessions to knock it over with a typical session being about 6 hours, but we did have two marathon sessions that went for an extra 3-4 hours. We also use online forums to get a lot the group discussion/planning done, which allows us to get stuck right into the game when we able to get together, but I don't really see much of that being relevant here as it looks pretty straight forward - get to Tarzion.
I'm thinking about adding in some more interesting random encounters.
* Flash Floods (CR3): I figure this might be interesting particularly if I combine it with combat. Not sure if that attack should be a random creature or a planned assault by rival faction.
* Aspis Agents: The PCs encounter a small band of merchants where one is an agent of the Aspis Consortium. This agent will look to poison the horses to delay the PCs. A few days later the PCs will come across some merchants who turn out to be a second set of agents that have the task of selling the PCs horses. One or more of the horse's will have horseshoes enchanted with some sort of tracking/location enchantment.
* Merchant assassins: A group of merchants that are really Red Mantis agents. It will look like 2-3 merchants with a wagon, but in the back of the wagon are another 3-4 warriors ready to spring out (ambush). I'm thinking of grabbing a spellcaster from the NPC guide to throw in the mix. Might add another one from that book to liven things up tactically and make things more interesting.
Any other interesting encounters that people used?
For the Kalabuto ambush I'm giving the agents a bit more grunt by using the NPC Guide.
I think you'll have to expand several of the encounters, or just live with it being shorter. It's a much more linear adventure than the others in the AP, so it'll take less time. I don't believe it will take less time than say Bastards of Erebus, What Lies in Dust or Infernal Syndrome, which are similarly linear adventures.
Does anyone have a blank map of the path traveled to Tazion?
If you've got Adobe Acrobat 8 and the adventure PDF, you can get a JPG of the entire Inner Sea region. Zoom in to the section with Eleder (you'll have to marry this w/ the geographic features shown on pg 23 ... there's no cities on the JPG). Then copy a print screen and paste to an image editing program (i use Paint.net). Crop out all the stuff you don't need and you've got a player's map. You'll probably want to pencil in Eleder, Kalabuto and Tazion.
Question for the group ... this prescribed path to Tazion bugs me. It is the most logical path but it's a railroad, isn't it? How much are you willing to let your parties deviate from The Path?
I'm thinking that the PC's faction leader will describe his recommendation as so:
Make straightaway for Kalabuto, then follow the waterways northeast as long as possible until you're about due east of where we believe Tazion's ruins lie.
But, if PCs wanna trek through the hills instead, or go north and northeast around them .. well, they oughta be able to take their chances.
Question for the group ... this prescribed path to Tazion bugs me. It is the most logical path but it's a railroad, isn't it? How much are you willing to let your parties deviate from The Path?[...]
But, if PCs wanna trek through the hills instead, or go north and northeast around them .. well, they oughta be able to take their chances.
Sure, it's a railroad, and after Smuggler's Shiv my players are yearning for some straight-forward action. I don't know, if you've already read City of Seven Spears but there is a huge sandbox coming you're way so a little railroading might be a good change of pace.
Also, the pre-written path follows a road, albeit a less traveled one. Should the group deviate from the path they will A) make progress much more slowly and B) fail to clear the way for the main expedition which would lose even more time trekking through the hills.
But that's just my opinion, I guess most encounters on the journey can be easily moved to different locations.
I have a question about travel times. My players made all the appropriate friends and made all the rite moves to earn all the travel time reductions and although they did visit the spawn of Aomak extending the trip by 1 day they also ONLY slept every other day or when necessary.
Because of this they made it to Tazion in 36 DAYS!!!!! I am concerned with the fact that the next team will not reach Tazion for 20 more days. This is going to give them 29 days before all factions are successful in reaching the ruins. My players have also put methods in place to try and slow down the others.
How should I let this affect the other factions arrival to the city in book 3? If I give my PCs 20 free days of exploration in the city before the next team arrives I'm worried it will give them too much control over the city by the time the others arrive but I also dont want to belittle the efforts they made.
Apparently in my group you put "Race" in the title and my players start thinking "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" and they are ready to run FAST!
Any recommendations?
By the way you explain it, the PCs are there early, but the expedition isn't, right? Because making all the porters and guards only sleep every other night seems a bit harsh/unfeasible. In that case I would rule that the camp (ie, the camp dynamics in part 3) will be delayed, meaning the PCs might have to wait a bit if they want the expedition to catch up and resupply them. Without the camp they would probably need to spend a lot of time hunting/making arrows and whatnot.
In story terms, I think the other factions are ESSENTIAL to make the story flow in part 3, as the greatest sanbox potential is in alliances between factions and tribes in the city. As to the number of days, I would "speed up" the other factions. That might be a bit unfair, but it sounds like your players are resourceful enough to deal with the extra challenge.
As a worst case scenario I would tell them (your players) up front that the other expeditions are needed for the plot and say that though they don't get to have the city for themselves for half a month, they get +1 to all camp stats (or some similar reward) because they have time to find a super spot and build defenses.
Bottom line: You need the factions in part 3 to put the pressure on the PCs, don't let the PCs run around alone i Saventh-Yhi for 20 days!
Is it your players that are there that fast, or their faction?
How did you players get thru with only sleeping every other night? Did they provide that to the whole faction or just themselves?
Did they travel at night too?
Some issues that I can see if only your players are there, and not the 100 person faction team:
How do they ensure that their faction gets the message on where/how to find the city?
How do they convince anyone that they represent a faction/group and not just themselves?
Where do they fall back to if they are hurt or sick?
Where do they get the expertise to unravel anything if/when they don't have the correct skill or knowledge?
I have VERY experienced players they are very resourceful and none of them really are a class that requires "Making arrows" and the like. The also have figured many ways around weather, temperature, illness, and hindering movement.
My players are fast. The faction is the Sargavan Government
It wasn't exactly every other night but they "kept moving through the night" for a number of days of travel through the plains but would stop and sleep at most event points and if they got a random encounter
they set up a series of marking patterns to inform the supply team on where to go to follow for this I did increase their chances of REs
They are very diplomatic so most people cant help but like them and want to follow and with 5 people in the party (counting NPCs) that can heal in some way them being hurt is not often an issue. They do have many problems with knowledges but they haven't been slowed by it too much yet.
Like I said I have VERY experienced players. The dc on the pillars should slow them down though.
I think I'm just gonna let the factions take less time and catch up on a few days because they wont have to worry about the threats in Tazion since everything will be dead. Just get them there a little sooner after them but in the same order.
Thanks guys
Problem is, the adventure isn't perfectly explicit about what's going on. The deal is the PCs are marking a trail for a caravan - "trailblazing"
The caravan moves at a constant speed of 30 feet, so the PCs also move that fast. How fast they can actually move is irrelevant, they're tied to the speed of the caravan. The reason is, they must stay out a given distance from the caravan in order to properly trailblaze. They may go back and forth, but running out to Tazion leaving the caravan in the dust doesn't do any good.
The ONLY way the caravan moves faster is if the PCs find shortcuts and avoid delays - which are represented by the encounter awards.
For example, with the salt mines, the PCs can easily skip the whole thing by just climbing over the hill (Athyra even does exactly that, meeting them on the other side), but the caravan can't do that. It's assumed the hills there are so rugged and the unmet threat of the mine's horrors are so dangerous that the masses of 1st level commoner drovers, porters and pack beasts can't cross the same way a small party of 5th level PCs can. They would have to spend a day going around. If the PCs clear the mine, however, they creat a passable short-cut through the hills suitable for the caravan train, saving them the day.
Question for the group ... this prescribed path to Tazion bugs me. It is the most logical path but it's a railroad, isn't it? How much are you willing to let your parties deviate from The Path?..... if PCs wanna trek through the hills instead, or go north and northeast around them .. well, they oughta be able to take their chances.
The whole premise is why this adventure is a 'railroad' too - and why that's ok. There can only ever be one shortest route. It's the PCs quest to find it. Lots of that work was done with the faction's expedition leader during the intial planning back in Eleder. So, yea they could try going over the hills but that way is known to be either impassable for a large caravan, so useless, or is already known to take longer than the planned route.
a little railroading might be a good change of pace.
Also, the pre-written path follows a road, albeit a less traveled one.
Hmm .. I think I should have read pf38 a little closer. I didn't realize this was a pre-existing trail.
You've got a good point about a change of pace. I'm seeing a trend in groups where players aren't sure what to do when presented with an open setting. It's like they get paralyzed by choice and can obsess too much over what they're 'supposed' to do.
Eleder to Kalabuto is a still active trade route that's fallen into disuse. After Kalabuto you're out of Sargava and in the wilderness of the Expanse - but that part of the trail is what the experts from the faction and the PCs are assumed to have already reasearch and agreed as the best course.
DJCherryPie, You could just simply bump up the travel times of the different factions as its not like they no that Faction X will arrive in Y days. I'd still reward your players for their good play by giving them 2-4 days of no factional interference while exploring Savinth-Yhi. You could also give them the option of spending a few days locating other potential campsites and set traps and stuff to chew up a few more days.
If you're looking for a way to slow up the PCs I'd have a messenger from the main expedition race in saying they need help. The caravan (main expedition) has been beset by a small band constantly attacking them, which has slowed them right up. They're further behind then the PCs thought (say 5 days) and in order to keep moving need the PCs to come back and escort them in.
Your PCs race back to meet the caravan and based on what you've said could do it about 3 days. They then choose whether to escort the caravan or try to track the band of raiders. Either way they go its going to chew up about 3-5 days on top so that should shorten the gap. Its going to mean making up an adventuring group that has some means of teleport or quick transport to justify how they were able to catch up.
I guess the other bit is that exploring Tarzion is going to chew up at least a day, probably two with the PCs clearing out the threats. Anyone coming after has less to deal with and should be able to come straight through.
expanding a bit on bq's idea of waylaid caravan, they can be the reason the maka-yika are holed up in the vaults of madness. obviously they are quite powerful so they don't have to defeat them per se, just drive them off.
also it would provide foreshadowing for part 4 (now i wish i had thought of this earlier).
I have a question regarding the Fzumi salt mine. I don't really see how it benefits the expedition to clear up the mine. Are we really supposed to have the whole expedition, wagons, cars and all travel through these flooded tunnels? How is this supposed to work? That sounds to me a lot of difficult work just to gain one day of travel time.
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I have a question regarding the Fzumi salt mine. I don't really see how it benefits the expedition to clear up the mine. Are we really supposed to have the whole expedition, wagons, cars and all travel through these flooded tunnels? How is this supposed to work? That sounds to me a lot of difficult work just to gain one day of travel time.
I beleive that is the idea, yes. If you look at the scale of the mines, the squares are bigger than 5 feet so there should be room for the expedition. I suppose the party could scout a way around the mine, but I would penalize them some time for doing so. (I let them skip nearly any encounter along the path by penalizing them time to find a way around.) They also lose out on the XP/treasure that would have been gained, obviously.
The timeline is reasonably tight if they want to be first - my group beat the Red Mantis by 2 days.
I have a question regarding the Fzumi salt mine. I don't really see how it benefits the expedition to clear up the mine. Are we really supposed to have the whole expedition, wagons, cars and all travel through these flooded tunnels? How is this supposed to work? That sounds to me a lot of difficult work just to gain one day of travel time.
In my mind, and how I will explain it to my players, is that there is a spur in the hills that they can either go around or they can shorten the route by cutting thru the mine.
I don't see them using carts or wagons, but a lot of mules. I just can't see carts being used to explore in jungle terrain. Mules, I can see making their way around and over large roots, marshes, etc..
I imagine it as the old trope for Allan Quatermain/'Dr. Livingston, I presume' flavor jungle expeditions - a long line of native porters holding packages balanced on their heads.
I also see it as a spur, as well as the porters being level 1 commoners, so must be carefully sheparded around potential monster encoutner areas, and also (understandably) timid about such.
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My group were reluctant to go to the mine too. I had to draw them there by having Athyra say that slavers had gone that way, which got my groups interest as they're against slavery. So they headed there mainly to liberate slaves and figured that while they're there why not do the mine.
But I think as others suggest the expedition is made up of a number of porters and the squares of the map are 20 foot squares so most of the path ways and bridges are 5-10 foot wide. Big enough for wagons to get through with a bit of grunt work from the stack of porters.
While up to this point I went a bit off script and threw in some non-book challenges and roleplay that my group enjoyed:
* in the days leading up to the mine I built up that a big storm was coming. When it finally hit I had Nkechi walk out into it, strip off and dance around in a ritual calling out to Gozreh. Invited my group to join him and had them make perform dance checks. Lightening strikes those in the ritual dealing 2d6 damage and they get a +4 enhancement bonus to a random ability score for the next 24 hours (players rolled d6 to determine which score got the bump). I used this one to bond Nkechi to the group a bit and for them to see him as valuable.
* Later that night a flashflood hit (pg 432 Core). I wanted to throw a non-creature challenge at the group and thought it brought a bit of the setting into play.
* Next morning a couple of cockatrice came down.
* After passing through the mine my guys came across the carcas of a big dinosaur. They poked around to investigate and were beset on by a botfly swarm. Surprised me here with some clever thinking by using a smokestick.
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I'm going to bust out some botflies too. I've noticed that the stuff in the bestiaries have a lot more jungle flavor than many of the monsters in the encoutners in the AP itself, which doesn't use most of them. Same goes for Heart of the Jungle and Sargava
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One of my most interesting encounters was a planned extra encounter on the M'neri plains. The party had been tracked by a hyena, just staying out of reach, scooting away if shot at or approached.
The party were camped at night in a broad gully. Two adult rhinos and a baby rhino charged towards the party, scattering them. The party started attacking the rhinos, believing the rhinos would turn and charge at them anyway. Then they noticed the rhinos had been injured already.
Out of the darkness a group of gnolls charged the scattered party, from several directions at once. As the party manoeuvred for an advantageous position (fighters to the front, spellcasters to the rear), the gnoll's hyenas and handlers came barrelling in to attack from the rear.
It was good fun, took a while to play. PC's were wounded, but no one was close to death. But they enjoyed the tactical battle. They also felt bad afterwards for killing one of the rhinos, realising the beasts had been used. For the battle I used a few different gnolls, having archers, a gnoll barbarian, gnoll fighter, a gnoll sergeant, a couple of "standard" gnolls, and a gnoll priestess. Played as a random encounter but obviously prepared.
For an RE I had my group spot slavers off in the distance. They weren't in the groups path or heading towards them so it was a choice of stay on track or spend time going after the slavers. My PCs are anti-slavery (particularly the Desna Inquisitor) and decided some liberation was needed. What was supposed to be a quick little encounter to kick off the session turned out to be a huge grinder. Was a good one though as it put a decision on the group, brought out some good character play/RP and a bit of the settings flavour. Plus my group got to pick up some horses to replace the ones they'd lost earlier - tend to die a lot.
Village under seige was good and down right lethal. Just about tore two of my PCs to pieces. It was a quick combat and I like the grizzled charm as a reward.
Ankhegs and the vultures were a bit dull and easily rolled despite me bumping up the numbers. Thats okay though as I think its good for the PCs to steamroll the odd combat here and you don't want every combat to be a long drawn out grind.
In a previous session my group had done the cockfight and for some reason adopted the losing rooster. They came across some travelling merchants and decided to share a campsite and bet over a cockfight. Their rooster lost again in a close one. Some wheeling and dealing on supplies and magical items lead to them exchanging roosters. So in this truely epic & heroic campaign my group has spent something like 200gp on roosters....I'm now thinking of putting in a major cockfight in Kalabuto for them.
RE of a pack of Hyena with a couple of dire hyena. The group blitzed them, but lost a couple of horses. I'm finding that these are good challenges for the group as although they can easily beat up these sorts of creatures its tough to protect the horses which they use to speed up their progress. So weakish creatures can present a challenge.
Next session I intend to bring in a bit factional mischief. Just haven't decided whether to have the main expedition magically message the group to come back and help them as they're being harassed by an adventuring group that moves too quick for their troops. Sort of a special forces vs special forces situation. Or to save that for after the main expedition has passed through Kalabuto and go with travelling merchant assassins/saboteurs.
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Is anyone else finding this to be a little easy?
I guess the dead gnome sorcerer in my group would disagree with you :-)
The Chemosits put up quite a fight for the PCs, though to be fair they didn't relly prepare for the fight even though they had some time. They were getting cocky after the last few fights which they handled quite easily.During the fight with the the Blue Warrior I realized after the first round that the undead miner wouldn't last long against the PCs so I changed the rules for the orb on the fly and kind of inverted its energy effect so that it channeled negative energy at the beginning of every round as a burst effect rather than only effecting creatures inside it. It made the fight much more interesting.
The cockfight isn't meant to be a challenging encounter but we had tons of fun when the gnome sorcerer ignored the warnings about using magic and tried to boost the rooster he bet on. He was taken to Rickets and had to pay ten times his wager and the match was repeated. When after the second match Rickets refused to cash out because the winning PC was "friends with the cheater" trouble ensued and the following fight with the thugs was a riot with PCs "wasting" rounds to fire up the crowd and everyone enjoying showing-off their moves. Easy yes, boring definitely no!
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Most of the encoutners are CR6-5, but since there's days between them, the PCs can unload everything they have every encoutner, so they can be a bit easy. Some things like the Chemosits are situational, depends who surprises who. My group slaughtered the Chemosits with focus fire following a well thought-out ambush. Some encoutners were so easy enough some of the PCs had little to do (the wizard even spent the Ankheg fight playing solitair in his rope trick)
Since then, I've been combining encoutners to make them more interesting, cutting some and folding that CR into others. Here's some examples:
- Cut the attack of the rival faction in Kalabuto, put their bodies (and loot) on the Gallows Tree, and added a Tuyewera from the Bestiary in Shiv, and a Botfly swarm from Heart of the Jungle. The combination of the invisible Tuyewere calling to the PCs from the Gallows tree added a lot to the creepout factor while also makign it more difficult for the PCs to just nuke the site from orbit, and Botflies erupting from the mouths and flesh of the zombie dead colonists really punched up the encouter a lot.
- Combined Jikeke the Exile with the Mzali warriors. I made Jikeke a Mzali agent who's been creating the Gallows Trees. He already has all the necessary spells, so it's a perfect fit, and gives continuity to both encoutners, bookending Kalabuto nicely.
I also plan on cutting the Succubus Zakyya, and folding the spirit dancers in with the Eloko, using Biloko from the bestiary to serve the 'charmer' role the succubus served and her CR. The PCs will encounter a feast where the Biloko and Eloko are enjoying the flesh of some of one of the other faction's people they captured, some of which are still alive, as charmed "guests" of the feast, which they PCs can observe throwing themselves into the pot at the Biloko's commands. All while the Spirit dancers dance for thier amusement. When discovered, the Biloko try to likewise charm the PCs into joining the feast as 'guests', while the Eloko ring their Iron Bell (like ringing the dinner bell) and hilarity ensues. I like this because the bestiary monsters have more jungle flavor, and this illustrates more what the Eloko of their nearby city are about.
(How the shadow demon possessed dire ape can be a TPK)
The only way I could reconsile a shadow demon's CR is by reading Sunlight Powerlessness literally - the vulnerability doesn't say direct sunlight, just bright light OR natural sunlight, so is affected by indirectly sunlight even if it's not bright. The jungle canopy is blocking out the sun, but the area is still illuminated by natural sunlight. That means that if they encoutner the ape during the day they'll have a chance to prepare for or escape from Itombu the shadow demon when he's forced out of the ape's body. Limited to a single non-attack action, he'd have to retreat into the ground, where he won't have line of effect, and can only sense creatures adjacent to him. If he does sense a target on the ground above him he could follow it around and wait until dark, but if the PCs can get away from him he could lose them easily, and they'll have until dark to prepare to confont him if they're forced to. The spell Daylight isn't the same as sunlight but it is bright light, with also triggers the vulnerability, so they might be able to ward him off with that temporarily too.
Has anyone posted a handout for the salt mine log entries (p. 25)?
busy night.
fought off two paralysis assasin groups tonight (our party of 7 was split), the raid at the dwarves house and a final RE of 2 dire tigers.... my poor little 6th level witch, on 3rd watch, took 60 damage of one in the first round!! left her on 1 hp....closest ive been to being unconcious and nearly had to call on her heart of the wilderness for the first time!!
even my little scorpion was very busy tonight
busy night.
fought off two paralysis assasin groups tonight (our party of 7 was split), the raid at the dwarves house and a final RE of 2 dire tigers.... my poor little 6th level witch, on 3rd watch, took 60 damage of one in the first round!! left her on 1 hp....closest ive been to being unconcious and nearly had to call on her heart of the wilderness for the first time!!
even my little scorpion was very busy tonight
I've just gotta ask this...how did a 6th level witch get at least 61 Hp?
Hit dice is a d6 so if you go the always max Hp instead of roll thats 36 then take a hit point as a favored class bonus every level thats 42...that would imply then that you have a +3 con modifier.
There's nothing wrong with any of this of course its just that based on other witches I've seen yours would be an unusual build.
I've just gotta ask this...how did a 6th level witch get at least 61 Hp?
max hp at 1st
5 lots of 4+1 hp choice per level for favoured class
16 con
false life spell
all my charcater are built to survive. Hate it when some nasally player has 11hp at 3rd level and then whinges if he dies easy!!
so tend to never have extreme stats in my pcs, lots (16,14 and odd 12 or 10), though my witch Glasya does only have 7 strength, which has been a bit of a pain in this AP!!
I've just gotta ask this...how did a 6th level witch get at least 61 Hp?
max hp at 1st
5 lots of 4
+1 hp choice per level for favoured class
16 con
false life spellall my charcater are built to survive. Hate it when some nasally player has 11hp at 3rd level and then whinges if he dies easy!!
so tend to never have extreme stats in my pcs, lots (16,14 and odd 12 or 10), though my witch Glasya does only have 7 strength, which has been a bit of a pain in this AP!!
ah that makes sense then, I'm used to my players going the glass cannon route on any and all caster classes, so we end up with situations like
" okay the wizard just blew the head off of that ogre with one shot but his kobold minion just hit you for 12 damage...what do you mean your dead?"
ah that makes sense then, I'm used to my players going the glass cannon route on any and all caster classes, so we end up with situations like
" okay the wizard just blew the head off of that ogre with one shot but his kobold minion just hit you for 12 damage...what do you mean your dead?"
;-)
On the 'Route to Tazion' map, are you guys using wandering monster encounters in between the set encounters?
Yes I did, but I found myself quite annoyed by them. I switched from mere rolling to more fitting encounters from the list in the bestiary, for example a pack of hyenas after the party went hunting for a few hours and caught some fresh meat, a wake up call by a couple of venomous snakes when the survival feeling threatens to dissipate, or rival faction agents when the party starts to lose the "race" feel.
I made sure there was something for each day of travel. I didn't roll on the RE table and instead put in what I wanted. Some encounters were diplomatic/roleplay ones, some were combat and one was an enviro challenge. Some encounters were avoidable, some were forced and the odd one was out of the way a bit, but was too much for the PCs to ignore. I think you really need to mix it up otherwise this could be dull and a bit monotonous. The game is meant to be fun after all.
;-)ah that makes sense then, I'm used to my players going the glass cannon route on any and all caster classes, so we end up with situations like
" okay the wizard just blew the head off of that ogre with one shot but his kobold minion just hit you for 12 damage...what do you mean your dead?"
got ambushed on night duty ( i do wish the GM would let my scorpions tremor sense help) by dudes with bane arrows. my Witch went from +65hp to -9hp before she got to act.... shame as was my best false life ever!!
the dire ape thingey got one shotted by a barbarian axe crit before it did anything except charge
no one really sure how the magic jar bit should have worked (spell like means no material components!!), GM ruled when it exited a body that person died!!
got ambushed on night duty ( i do wish the GM would let my scorpions tremor sense help) by dudes with bane arrows. my Witch went from +65hp to -9hp before she got to act.... shame as was my best false life ever!!
the dire ape thingey got one shotted by a barbarian axe crit before it did anything except charge
no one really sure how the magic jar bit should have worked (spell like means no material components!!), GM ruled when it exited a body that person died!!
Erm. Seems like your GM got upset*? Really the shadow demon shouldn't kill something it leaves behind - as there's no material component, you never exit the range of the spell (you're never too far from the focus), ergo the death-effect never happens. I understand his ruling, but that seems both harsh and against the intention of the ability. Also, I take it your witch survived, nonetheless? Here's hoping!
*EDIT: I'm not actually trying to make judgments about your GM's personal state of mind or emotions, and I apologize as it looks like I'm doing exactly that. Mostly, I just meant that those are very hard rulings. I know that my players would feel very cheated by that, considering the ape could be quite a difficult encounter anyway!
As for me, I rolled random encounters a bit differently. I occasionally dropped a few "double" encounters on the PCs - rolling twice and applying the appropriate NPC reactions to one another. For example, I rolled a lion and a pack of hyenas - the PCs loved this and rushed to help the lion (who became their friend via wild empathy). Another time, they fought one of the "thunder beasts"... who had a few tag-along "helpers" who often mopped up after it. I did occasionally just arbitrarily choose a "random" encounter... that T-Rex was just too tempting and it was there next-to-last day to fight it! How could I not choose it? :) 'Sides. I knew they'd love it. (They did.)
snipped good stuff by Tacy!!
I do feel he is out to kill us.
My witch did survive, with heart of the wilderness she doesnt die till -19, and has good chance to stabilize!!
have alla greed the monk is dead, but we do have a scroll of raise dead, as long as the cleric doesnt fluff his roll!!
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The Serpent's Skull PA is the first one that I've run in a while (20 years) and it is definately more complex than those from the late 80's/early 90's.
Can anyone give me any advice on the water battles? The treasure pit from Smuggler's Shiv was a disaster, and we have already had another one with the pearl diving. It went better, but still there was a lot of arguing. When my group gets to the Loch Ness Monster, I want to be able to say "this is the way it is."
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind telling them the deal, but I want it to be right and fun. Can anyone tell me how you resolve 3-D water battles?
Well first of all I am sure that there is plenty of advice on this kind of thing in the Advice section of these messageboards and a short search wil certainly enlighten you.
But maybe we can help as well. What in particular were you arguing about?
How many days can the PCs cut from their travel time?
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For example, in the treasure pit, I had the wights waiting under water. I figured that with all the dirt dropped from the digging that it would have muddied things up. The party let the rogue go down a rope first, and when he got half way in the water I gave the wights a surprise round to attack him. (they nearly killed him). So the party pulled him up, healed him, then roped their way down.
Not having done a water fight, I said that the alchemist's fire bombs would not spread fire if they were thrown on the surface of the water. I also made the magus get shocked from his own shocking grasp. Neither of them were very happy about that, but I did warn them of the effects since they were not spelled out in the rules per se. They also had questions about cover and reductions to attacks due to being in the water. I did not allow for cover, and ignored attack penalties.
Fast forward to the kelpie fight. The party sent the alchemist down to hunt for pearls alone while two of them waited in the boat. (The nonswimming cleric in medium armor, waited on shore). The kelpie lured the alchemist who failed his save, and would have killed him, however I allowed the others in the boat to "have a bad feeling" and start swimming to his rescue.
I did say that bombs cannot be thrown under water and fire spells will not work. Also, electricity will have residual damage to the caster. I don't know about acid or cold, but following along those lines I guess they could behave differently as well. Now that I think of it arrows will not work as well either.
I guess I'd like to know how anyone else plays out water fights, becore they get to the lake with Amoak's cub. Am I making things too difficult? Do the rest of you just run it like a normal fight, but allow creatures to get above and below each other? Or are there simple changes that I could use that would make it different but not overly complex.