Craft (trapmaking) & simple mechanical traps

[King of Vrock]

Although the Trap section goes into great detail about building big complex mechanical traps and their costs, they say nothing about Natural or Primitive Traps. 1000gp for a simple snare, a tripwire with bells on it, or a shallow spiked pit camouflaged with leaves is a bit much don't you think?

How would a nest of Kobolds or say a Ranger or Rogue set up a small ambush site with a hastily dug hole, sharpened sticks and some quick and dirty snares? How long does it take? Certainly not a weeks time!

Unless you're leaving simple traps to the Snare spell a bit of advice for impromptu traps would be nice. I mean why have a Detect Snares and Pits spell if you don't have any snares or pits for it to detect?

--Caution: Vrock slide area ahead.

[Eadric Storm]

King of Vrock wrote:

Although the Trap section goes into great detail about building big complex mechanical traps and their costs, they say nothing about Natural or Primitive Traps. 1000gp for a simple snare, a tripwire with bells on it, or a shallow spiked pit camouflaged with leaves is a bit much don't you think?

How would a nest of Kobolds or say a Ranger or Rogue set up a small ambush site with a hastily dug hole, sharpened sticks and some quick and dirty snares? How long does it take? Certainly not a weeks time!

Unless you're leaving simple traps to the Snare spell a bit of advice for impromptu traps would be nice. I mean why have a Detect Snares and Pits spell if you don't have any snares or pits for it to detect?

--Caution: Vrock slide area ahead.

My understanding is that the Trap construction rules are more for permanent features, not wilderness traps.

I would use a Craft(Trap) or Survival as a contested check for the hiding of the simple trap, with a difficulty to craft the trap based on how complex the characters are trying to make it and the quality of the materials used.
I see no need to charge a pc GP for using several lengths of fishing line and a few small bells to create a perimeter alarm, or digging a hole and covering it with branches and leaves, provided they do the work and have the time in game to complete their actions.

[King of Vrock]

But really what GM actually uses the costs? Villains have lairs and traps because they do, not because the can afford them. I guess its really just there for the Players if they want to build a trap for their home bases?

There really do need to be rules for improvised or simple traps. The only rules subsets that mention anything close are the Snare spell and the Quicksand rules.

--School of Hard Vrocks

[Thraxus]

For the purposes of hunting, simple traps and snares can be covered with a Survival check.

For a more advance trap use, you could eith base the trap on a similar item (such as small spikes concealed under leaves functioning as caltrops). I might require a skill check to find wood or stones that could be used for the spikes, but not for the creation. I would also require a Stealth check to hide the spikes.

For something more advanced, such as a concealed pit, you could either base it on the trap rules or have the Craft check set the save DC or attack roll (check result = DC) and the Stealth check sets the Perception DC to notice. If you use the dirty method, you might want to set a limit to how high the DC can go in this way.

[JaceDK]

I've brought this up several times before on the boards...never got a satisfying answer.

I agree that especially a ranger should be able to dig an improvised pit trap or set a simple snare without it costing anything.

[Urath DM]

Some thoughts:

1. Relax the requirement that mechanical traps be at least CR 1; each CR less then 1 divides as with monsters (CR 0 = CR1/2, CR -1 = CR1/3, etc.).

2. Base statistics for improvised/simple traps use the lowest entries on the tables (Perception 15 or less to detect; Disable Device 15 or less to disable; Reflex save 15 or lower to negate or +0 or less attack bonus; etc.)

3. Craft(Trap) DC is 15 for CR 1/2, 10 for CR 1/3 or less

4. Base cost for improvised/simple traps uses the suggested reduced cost for simple traps (250 gp x CR).

5. Allow Survival checks at 10 or 15 + 1 per 50 gp to find the needed supplies in the area.

6. Like poison, failing the Craft (Trap) check by too much triggers the trap on the trapper.

Note also that a variety of CR 1/2 booby traps were added to the 3.5 DMG II. For anyone who has that book, most of them should be portable to Pathfinder easily.

[King of Vrock]

Very nice Urath Dm, very nice.

Unfortunately the Math still doesn't work out.

CR 1/8 trap by the day, w/ +10 DC to craft more quickly and not able to be reset (1/2 price) = .5(250gp * .125)=157.25sp

You'll need to roll 55 on the check at DC 20 to make it in a single day.

--Falling Vrock Trap

[Dreadmyst]

...i agree. simple traps only take hours to make.....not days. i would say its up to the GM to decide how long it takes based on trap complexity.

pit trap would have take longer than a snare trap as you have to dig a hole and conceal it. i personaly say have them roll and as long as they didnt roll bad have them complete it in a couple hours. if they rolled bad then make it take 2-3 times longer.

unleess its mechanical i would say base them on craft dc's and ignore cost..... it costs nothing to take a branch sharpen it and it only takes time, a shovel, a rope/grapple hook and maybe a str check to dig a hole....

snare trap would be able to set up in a lot less time.

[Brother Fen]

It would be nice if Ultimate Wilderness addresses this issue.

[Brother Fen]

Going through my books when I came across the section on traps in Heroes of the Wild Player Companion. See pages 8-9 and 20-21.