R_Chance wrote: LilithsThrall wrote: R_Chance wrote: Some ideas resist complication, others are a natural for it. Certainly. But we've been talking about things like moral codes and philosophies. Such things are to ideas as earthworms are to atoms.
Hm. I think we just may have to disagree on this. A lot of junk may acrete around some philosophies, but the core is often still simple and elegant. And it's the core that is transmitted and survives while the baggage is lost / changes. Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree, because the core of philosophies does change over time and, often, rather significantly.
So, zombies are now a cultural statement? Awesome! Cultural sensitivity is so lame. I've got a good one! Testing spells on animals in labs instead of on people! How else are you going to know if that alter eyecolor spell is going to make your head explode?
Ironicdisaster wrote: So, zombies are now a cultural statement? Awesome! Cultural sensitivity is so lame. I've got a good one! Testing spells on animals in labs instead of on people! How else are you going to know if that alter eyecolor spell is going to make your head explode? Who said anything about "sensitivity"? It was a philosophical discussion on good, evil, undeath, relatavism and the enduring nature of philosophy (if any). Feel free to test it on people. When they come for you with torches, pitchforks and a couple of Paladins don't blame me :)
R_Chance wrote: Ironicdisaster wrote: So, zombies are now a cultural statement? Awesome! Cultural sensitivity is so lame. I've got a good one! Testing spells on animals in labs instead of on people! How else are you going to know if that alter eyecolor spell is going to make your head explode? Who said anything about "sensitivity"? It was a philosophical discussion on good, evil, undeath, relatavism and the enduring nature of philosophy (if any). Feel free to test it on people. When they come for you with torches, pitchforks and a couple of Paladins don't blame me :) That would just be evil, though. Animal testing is evil for a greater good.
Ironicdisaster wrote: R_Chance wrote: Ironicdisaster wrote: So, zombies are now a cultural statement? Awesome! Cultural sensitivity is so lame. I've got a good one! Testing spells on animals in labs instead of on people! How else are you going to know if that alter eyecolor spell is going to make your head explode? Who said anything about "sensitivity"? It was a philosophical discussion on good, evil, undeath, relatavism and the enduring nature of philosophy (if any). Feel free to test it on people. When they come for you with torches, pitchforks and a couple of Paladins don't blame me :) That would just be evil, though. Animal testing is evil for a greater good. So. When the Druids and Rangers come for you don't blame me :)
Phasics wrote: well its true, dead humanoids just lying around are such a waste of perfectly good resources. cemetery take up perfectly good fertile land and for what !
Just a little idea I'm currently working on for playing a necromancer who is a nice guy and just wants to create a better society, one where the living and the dead live in harmony. The anitmated dead will help build the city and the future.
Its like being an organ donor except we don't waste anything !
Just wondering if anyone else has had some fun character ideas for classes/race that are by default considered evil.
Well to be honest the entire zombie discussion seems eerily similar to a city founded in a rough mountainous region in my campaign, where peoples bodies are their own property after death, or their families property to be more specific.
At the basic level, the undead do most of the menial work, and rough jobs, however not all undead are government owned either. Essentially in lieu of taxes, you can will your corpse to the state instead of paying taxes that year. for each year you pass on taxes, your undead corpse is required to serve the government for one year. This of course had interesting ramifications, especially for travel, since if you wanted to LEAVE the state, you had to pay your "death taxes" you had unpaid. There is of course also a minor death tax covering the reanimation fee on death, now if one, or ones family chooses to pay actual taxes instead, then ones corpse, happily reanimated by the government will work for ones family in whatever way they choose.
This leads to several wealthy familys with generations of undead helping with the work, and smaller families that are essentially untaxed, performing any TRAINED work, one can after all use undead for simple tasks, but they need Overseers, supervisors, and necromancers to ensure that the job is done well.
This essentially led(simplifying greatly) to a class system, where different classes or portions of the populations had different rankings, from the crafters, who much like the old guilds, create something, to the scholars, to the mages(strong necromancer tendancies, for the public good of course), to the warriors(special tactics to work with undead, unit commanders, special weapons troops) to the manufacturers(if you want lower class, working at a mass manufacturer is about as far as it got.. and even then, you were garunteed LOW food prices, easy taxes, and decent housing costs. not to mention clean streets and some security)
All in all it makes for an interesting city, which produces a decent amount of raw materials, and its master crafter class makes some of the most beautiful items in the region. It is absoulte RABID about the appropriate use of necromancy, and contends that insane zombies and skeletons is an animator problem and noncenstual animation methods.
So if you want a use for undead which could be considered grey area at least, if not good, then perhaps there is a city for you. One thing to remember is that when undead are actually USED- ie put to work, they DO wear out after so long, so many knicks, so much wear and tear, sure you can mend them magically up to a point, but stockpiling massive armies? not if your actually using them for anything, and lets not forget accidents, especially in mines or working conditions, with what must admittedly be considered, stupid workers.
Phasics wrote: Just a little idea I'm currently working on for playing a necromancer who is a nice guy and just wants to create a better society, one where the living and the dead live in harmony. The anitmated dead will help build the city and the future. Nice, if (as said before) you aren't raising them as rotting zombies.
Phasics wrote: Its like being an organ donor except we don't waste anything ! Do you have the "corpse donor" card in your wallet?
Phasics wrote: Just wondering if anyone else has had some fun character ideas for classes/race that are by default considered evil. A lich who was that good-aligned necromancer and who wanted to allow Utopia to last into the next millenia or so.
An anti-paladin who was in fact a regular paladin bodyguarding that necromancer, but who couldn't channel positive energy safely once his friend turned into a lich.
A succubus whom the charismatic paladin seduced and who became his beloved cohort.
A "black sheep" demon who rejects all his family's teachings, and who work discreetly to improve lesser beings' condition.
A ogre/giant/troll/etc. who's been properly educated and civilized. Might not be clever or wise or charismatic, but he's polite. And well-dressed.
Ironicdisaster wrote: Animal testing is evil And so unnecessary, especially when it's done for cosmetics! I don't need a kennel full of mutts to tell you that pit bull with lip stick looks ridiculous, and that, after 10 minutes outside, the dog will smell like he rolled around in manure no matter how much perfume you spray on him!
If it were at least stuff the dogs can enjoy, like moisturiser for dog noses, or "urine", the fragrance for dogs to mark their territory.
Louis IX wrote: Nice, if (as said before) you aren't raising them as rotting zombies. shakes his head sadly at the amount of zombie hate being shown
DAMN YOU HOLLYWOOD!!!!!
KaeYoss wrote: Ironicdisaster wrote: Animal testing is evil And so unnecessary, especially when it's done for cosmetics! I don't need a kennel full of mutts to tell you that pit bull with lip stick looks ridiculous, and that, after 10 minutes outside, the dog will smell like he rolled around in manure no matter how much perfume you spray on him!
If it were at least stuff the dogs can enjoy, like moisturiser for dog noses, or "urine", the fragrance for dogs to mark their territory. THANK YOU, sheesh this guy knows what he's talking about!
KaeYoss wrote: If it were at least stuff the dogs can enjoy, like moisturiser for dog noses, or "urine", the fragrance for dogs to mark their territory. +1
YAP! YAP!
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