If you have a fireball scroll at 5th caster level it does 5d6 damage and has a save DC of 14 (10+3 for spell lvl+ 1 for attribute bonus of int 13 being the minimum stat to cast fireball). So far so good (unless you want to tell me I am wrong?)
However, if I have a wand of spiritual weapon, how do I adjudicate it? Its duration will be 3 rounds (CL3) and its damage will be d8+1 (1 per 3 caster levels). HOWEVER, its attack bonus is determined by adding "your" base attack bonus to "your" wisdom bonus. Does this mean the creator's or the user's?
I am inclined to think that by RAW it means the user's (because it doesn't say the CASTER's bab & wisdom, unless that's just the text assuming the caster is doing it himself) but that makes me uneasy as it would seem to be significantly better for a high level user compared to the aforementioned fireball scroll which is no better for a high level user than a low level one.
Perhaps I am wrong to feel uneasy as d8+1 damage may not seem a significant benefit at higher level, particularly as it costs an action to use it. But on the other hand, if the party paladin/cleric is using the wand then that's a couple of extra freebie attacks per round which ignore DR & incorporeality at a quite respectable attack bonus.
I would greatly appreciate your views on the correct way to adjudicate the attack bonus and whether allowing the user of the item to utilise his own bonuses is too powerful/not in the spirit of how wands & scrolls are supposed to work.
Seems to be a reasonable interpretation to me. Sure, it'll last only 3 rounds, but it's using your BAB, so the extra swings might prove helpful when that dread wraith shows up. And at high levels, it's not going to hit that often nor last that long, so it's not like it's going to contribute all that strongly one way or the other.
Traditionally when you come across something in a bound item like that which tends to assume you use the lowest possible value it could have to exist. So a wand of spiritual weapon just randomly found would assume a caster level of 3 made by a cleric with a wisdom of 12.
Indeed, but are you arguing it should therefore attack with the CREATOR'S stats (ie bab+2, wis +1) for an attack bonus of +3?
Or would you go with the USER'S attack stats, which will be significantly better as they level up in future?
For something like a wand or scroll I'd use the creators. If it was a staff then it'd be the users.
So when the entry for spiritual weapon talks about "your" bab and "your" wisdom bonus, you are reading it as referring to the CREATOR rather than the USER? (My confusion arises because it doesn't seem clear that this is analagous to the caster-level-dependent effects such as its duration and damage bonus, where caster level is clearly referenced).
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I'm a bit torn. If I have a wand of Acid Arrow. I use my BAB to make the attack roll against the target. The same thing if I'm using a Wand of Chill Touch, my BAB.
That's because your making a ranged attack, not sicking some force mace on someone which attacks on it's own.
Why wouldn't you use the wand creator's stats? Shouldn't all of the effects of a wand be pre-determined by whoever made it?
Who made a wand of Spiritual Weapon in the first place is my question?
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Here is another question on it. for Spiritual Weapon, it states the following:
The weapon that you get is often a force replica of your deity's own personal weapon. A cleric without a deity gets a weapon based on his alignment. A neutral cleric without a deity can create a spiritual weapon of any alignment, provided he is acting at least generally in accord with that alignment at the time. The weapons associated with each alignment are as follows: chaos (battleaxe), evil (light flail), good (warhammer), law (longsword).
So, what does the weapon show up as? If you make it show up as the creator's deity's weapon, then it should be the creators stats, but if you have it show up as your deity's stats or alignment based, then I could see it as yours.
You use a spell-trigger to activate the wand, caster level is set, but the choices on the spell are yours (aka where you place a fireball, who all gets the haste or water breathing). I view it as since you are making that choice, it is pulling from you to attack. Were someone to somehow make a potion of Spiritual Weapon, (not possible, I know, but go with me on this), then I could see it using the casters stats for it's attacks.
Here is another idea that is similar. Who's int is used for attacks if you have a scroll of telekinesis?
Here is the answer:
A wand of spiritual weapon should use the wand-user's base attack bonus plus Wisdom modifier to resolve attacks, since it's the wand wielder and not the creator that's making the attacks. The bonus to damage, though, is set by the wand's caster level.
Link.
Here is the answer:
A wand of spiritual weapon should use the wand-user's base attack bonus plus Wisdom modifier to resolve attacks, since it's the wand wielder and not the creator that's making the attacks. The bonus to damage, though, is set by the wand's caster level.Link.
OK, so the power to summon the weapon comes from the creator (translates as duration/ability to overcome SR/damage) but since the user directs the weapon it uses his bab & wisdom. Alright, I can see that. Still slightly surprised that this seems to scale with user level more than some other items (eg fireball wand) but for the reasons I stated initially I guess its not as powerful as it looks, due to short duration, fairly minor damage (although every little helps, right?) and the need to fiddle around swapping wand for weapon and actually taking the time to trigger it as well, particularly when this combines with the short duration.
Looks like the best wands/scrolls to create should not allow saves and should use the USER's attack bonus (perhaps scorching ray for example).
Thanks for the link!