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I am thinking of spending some feats for dazzling display. The extra feats would be intimidating prowess, skill focus intimidate and persuasive. at level 10 I will have 28 intimidate check. will this work out against a check of 10+ hit dice+ wis modifier. The effects are demorilzing for 1 round and an extra round for every 5 above the opposing checks. This affects every opponent in a 30ft radius
To answer what I think in intention of the question at hand, my answer is a gated yes.
I don't know exactly if this is right or not but the way we run things, intimidation and demoralization is a fear effect. Those with specific modifiers to this such as Bravery from fighter and the immunity that higher level dragons and such possess would be incurred. The RAW does not explicitly state that it is a "fear effect" but RAI would clearly support this.As you level up I would make sure to keep your ranks up and do what you can to stay well above the median you would need to beat the 10+CR+Wis for the various monsters. Skill shards, specific items that boost temporarily work well here
No offense themetricsystem, but you are wrong on many accounts. The rules do produce a fear effect, as the condition, shaken, is fear based. Anything immune to fear is immune to dazzling display. Resistances to fear, such as bravery, however, do not effect the ability at all. Those resistances affect saves and do not specifically mention this. As such, a Paladin can be demoralized, but it will have no effect, and a fighter will get no special resistance to it.
Dragons are not innately immune to fear, irregardless of their size.
Normal social intimidation, however, is not a fear based ability and it is perfectly reasonable to think that a lich or Paladin might be intimidated into not messing with you because of your percieved strength. Kender would be about the only intelligent thing I can think of immune to social intimidate, since they fail to percieve the notion that something bad might happen to them. For the others, you are convincing them that it is not in their interests to mess with you. Coldly and rationally, they can come to the conclusion that it is a good idea.
Depending on your stats, you may not need all the feats and there may be better other choices. Personally, I don't recommend skill forcus until lvl 9+ because there are usually better feats right now than the base +3. Intimidating prowess I think is only worthwhile if it will give you more than +3.
Depending on your charisma, without these feats you will generally be looking at DC10+lvl+1to8(hit die over yours)+2(wis). The 1to8 is because higher CR monsters have more hit dice than CR, and 2 is a decent assumption for monster bonuses to wisdom. A CR 19 red dragon has 25 HD, and it is not unreasonable to face at lvl 17 for the +8. If your charisma is 20 though, your stat bonuses equal. You have a +3 from class skill presumably, so you are looking at a DC15 check for 1 round and 20 for 2. Now you have to ask yourself how much you want to focus on this ability, and it is not unreasonable to do so. Skill focus will bring that DC down to a 9, so you are succeeding more often than failing and have a 30% chance for 2 rounds. Intimidating prowess for at least +4 will bring this down to a 5, and the +4 from persuasion will bring this to an autosucceed against a monster 2 CR above your level.
Mid levels, I find demoralize works 50% to 75% of the time with just skill focus. I haven't gotten up to high levels with someone utalizing this yet, but it has scaled well so far I don't see it changing based on the monster stats I have looked at. Arround lvl 9 it really comes into its own with rogues starting to get sneak attack, bard's ability to cause fear AoE that you can get to stack (bard has to do it first), and barbarians with terrifying howl making enemies panic. I don't particularly recomend focusing on dazling display without 1 or more of those abilities in the party though. Its a decent debuff, but without something more at higher levels I'm not convinced its worth a huge investment. I think this will last you quite some time though.
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No offense themetricsystem, but you are wrong on many accounts. The rules do produce a fear effect, as the condition, shaken, is fear based. Anything immune to fear is immune to dazzling display. Resistances to fear, such as bravery, however, do not effect the ability at all. Those resistances affect saves and do not specifically mention this. As such, a Paladin can be demoralized, but it will have no effect, and a fighter will get no special resistance to it.
Good thing he didn't ask a question asking for RAW. I take no offense though, so don't worry. I don't claim to be a master of the system ^_^
I will say however that much likely has more to do with my play and DM style than anything else. I play by the rules and anything that comes up, I deal with it in the most sensible way at the time. If the RAW doesn't support something, or conflicts with logic... then I break it. There very well may be an answer in the RAW somewhere but stopping a game dead even to look up something obscure is not an option and adds nothing to the game. Doesn't bother me in the least to do such a thing.
For instance the bravery argument makes no sense, even if it does have precedent in RAW. A fighter with a special ability that helps the with fear effects would CERTAINLY help him with counter intimidate checks. That is as plain to me as 1+1 = 2 When someone tries to intimidate you, they are essentially threatening you, if you are brave by definition or valorous etc you will be much more resistant and unleverageable against these things.
That being said, the main reason I post here is to make myself acquainted with these rules that concrete the system to a functional base.
TMS, Don't feel too bad. The bravery houserule is one that has been advocated before on these boards, and I use it in my games. My general rule is anything that gives a bonus to saves specifically vs fear gives the bonus to the DC. There are some other variations on this though. Just wanted to make sure it was clear that that is a house rule and not what is in raw. As long as players know how something works with houserules, or after the fact the GM will look up the rule andmake it know what it will be going forward, I have no problem with stuff made up on the fly. As long as its not done like 1 GM I played with who, after we disarmed any of his NPCs, was suddenly making unarmed strikes with them as if they had the feat. Not 1 of his characters or fully stated out NPCs had the feat, but all of his ones just on cheat sheets without feat selection did.
Shattered Defenses, a feat that needs dazzling display and BAB +6. If you hit an opponent who is shaken, frightened, or panicked, he becomes flat footed to you until the begining of your next turn for all subsequent attacks.
What class are you? If you are fighter, going on to Deadly Stroke is not bad. Some people don't like the feat, but if you build it right the feat will not do that much less damage than your normal full attack. 2 levels of Barbarian to get intimidating glare so you can combine intimidation as a move action with it is cheezy but strong.
I read shattering defenses as just to myself not to other correct me if I am wrong
Yes, but if the Rogue has it and you use dazzling display the enemy is still shaken for him. So he would need to take dazzling display and shattered defenses.
And! Don't forget, If ye be a half-orc you get a nice +2 to intimidate, but then again.. it'll cost you a feat if you were thinking to go human... Pros and cons... :)
I'm currently statting up a Bard to use this feat with a Scorpion Whip for the sole purpose of being able to scare the bejesus out of anything that gets within range for the benefit of the rest of the Party.
Nothing like a whip that crackles with energy as some scary-looking Half-Orc lashes it through the air in complex patterns to make you take a step back and think twice about who you're going to full-attack (or at least I hope the DM thinks like that!).
And yes, Barbarians with this feat and the Intimidating Glare Rage Ability are scary as all hell and can send even hardened troops packing. Use Intimidating Glare on the Commander. Use Dazzling Display the next round on the troops while the party bluffer/fellow intimidater asks "Do you really want to die today?"
Works 3 outta 5!
It seems to be easier to use at low levels than high levels, but certainly can be useful at high levels, especially if you focus your build toward it. A half-orc fighter rogue with this tree can be just nasty.
There are some circumstantial issues to bear in mind, however.
If you're in a planar campaign, where a lot of times you'll be facing creatures with both a high wisdom and a bajillion hit dice (if not immunity to fear), it's not going to be effective very often. Plus, you might be more likely to be facing off a few powerful enemies at once, where as Dazzling Display is most useful when you can capture several creatures in its AOE.
If you're in a urban or war campaign, on the other hand, where you're going to be facing down a lot of mooks who likely have fewer HD than you--you will rock the house with it.
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I'm currently statting up a Bard to use this feat with a Scorpion Whip for the sole purpose of being able to scare the bejesus out of anything that gets within range for the benefit of the rest of the Party.
Nothing like a whip that crackles with energy as some scary-looking Half-Orc lashes it through the air in complex patterns to make you take a step back and think twice about who you're going to full-attack (or at least I hope the DM thinks like that!).
And yes, Barbarians with this feat and the Intimidating Glare Rage Ability are scary as all hell and can send even hardened troops packing. Use Intimidating Glare on the Commander. Use Dazzling Display the next round on the troops while the party bluffer/fellow intimidater asks "Do you really want to die today?"
Works 3 outta 5!
Bards also get Dirge of Doom, which is a no-save Shaken-condition granting AoE. Move action to start that, then full-round action the next round with Dazzling Display should clear a room of mooks. At 13th level, you can do it in one round.
I was kinda hoping my DM would miss that .... ah well, at least he'll be prepared now .... and I'll face Undead from 12 on upwards (T_T).
Dragons are not innately immune to fear, irregardless of their size.
"Irregardless" isn't a word.
The English language is all of our responsibilities.
-The Trollin Grammar Nazi.
Dragons are not innately immune to fear, irregardless of their size."Irregardless" isn't a word.
The English language is all of our responsibilities.
-The Trollin Grammar Nazi.
Merriam Webster disagrees with you. "The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however." It is not formal or standard, but it is used. I will forgive you though.