If you have any given Stat Block, PC, NPC, or Monster, does anyone have a quick way to check the Skills "math"?
For example in the new GameMastery Guide p .304 the Acolyte.
Human Cleric 1 (2 + Int Mod) (+1 for being human)
Int 10, so no Int Mod
Skills Diplomacy +6, Heal +8, Knowledge (religion) +4, Sense
Motive +6 (all are Cleric Class Skills so +3/skill)
I'm seeing 3 Skill points/ranks.
Where is my "math" incorrect?
thanks
No easy way, sorry. You also need to account for the ability score modifiers for each skill, feats such as Skill Focus or Alertness, equipment, and the favored class bonus. You just gotta take them apart to make them work.
Diplomacy+6: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Charisma bonus
Heal+8: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Wisdom +2 healer's kit
Knowledge (religion) +4: 1 rank + 3 trained
Sense Motive: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Wisdom
This cleric took a skill point at level 1, as he has 4 skill points and looks like he was built with Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 14 or something similar.
Yeah, don't forget you can choose +1 skill point or +1 HP for your favored class.
Lathiira wrote: No easy way, sorry. You also need to account for the ability score modifiers for each skill, feats such as Skill Focus or Alertness, equipment, and the favored class bonus. You just gotta take them apart to make them work.
Diplomacy+6: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Charisma bonus
Heal+8: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Wisdom +2 healer's kit
Knowledge (religion) +4: 1 rank + 3 trained
Sense Motive: 1 rank +3 trained +2 Wisdom
This cleric took a skill point at level 1, as he has 4 skill points and looks like he was built with Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 14 or something similar.
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 14
Scipion del Ferro wrote: Yeah, don't forget you can choose +1 skill point or +1 HP for your favored class. Is this a one time thing or do you apply it for each level?
Where is this in the rules?
thanks
chopswil wrote: Scipion del Ferro wrote: Yeah, don't forget you can choose +1 skill point or +1 HP for your favored class. Is this a one time thing or do you apply it for each level?
Where is this in the rules?
thanks You'll find this in the beginning of the Classes section of the Core rules, under "Favored Class". It's a choice made each time you take a level in your favored class. For an NPC, whatever base class they have the most levels in is usually assumed to be their favored class. Here it is from the PRD:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes.html
chopswil wrote: If you have any given Stat Block, PC, NPC, or Monster, does anyone have a quick way to check the Skills "math"?
The easy way for stat blocks that you do yourself is to use something like word's hidden text where you can have things laid out like: Diplomacy +10 (2 ranks +3 trained +2 CHA +3 Item), Stealth +2 (1 rank +0 untrained +4 size -3ACP). etc... but when printing out it would look like:
Diplomacy +10, Stealth +2.
chopswil wrote:
For example in the new GameMastery Guide p .304 the Acolyte.
Human Cleric 1 (2 + Int Mod) (+1 for being human)
Int 10, so no Int Mod
Skills Diplomacy +6, Heal +8, Knowledge (religion) +4, Sense
Motive +6 (all are Cleric Class Skills so +3/skill)
I'm seeing 3 Skill points/ranks.
Where is my "math" incorrect?
thanks
I would assume that you are looking at the following:
Diplomacy +6 (1 rank +3 trained +2 CHA), Heal +8 (1 rank +3 trained +2 WIS, +2 trait), Knowledge (religion) +4 (1 rank +3 trained +0INT), Sense Motive +6 (1 ranks, +3 trained, +2 WIS).
This is assuming the above posters are correct with a 15WIS 14CHA favored class bonus to skill point. This leaves the +2 'trait' to heal that I listed it could be either some trait or a feat giving the +2 to heal, or simply an error.
Regardless it does tell you when making your own stat blocks that you want to have listed out with them a breakdown of the numbers. I would suggest that you do this will all calculations (hps, saves, attacks, etc). If you simply make it up once and that's that then it's not as important, but if you are ever going to go back and tweak it or use it as a template for another NPC then its priceless work.
-James
So for (GMG p. 287)
Human Fighter 6
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills Craft (weapons) +3, Handle Animal +11, Profession
(soldier) +5, Ride +9, Survival +5
Ranks = 6 * ( 2 + 0) + 6 (human) = 18
Craft (weapons) +3: -1 (Int) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Handle Animal +11: +0 (Cha) +3 (trained) +8 ranks
Profession (soldier) +5: +1 (Wis) +3(trained) +1 rank
Ride +9: +3 (Dex) +3 (trained} +3 rank
Survival +5: +1 (Wis) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Doesn't seems to fit: 8 ranks in Handle Animal seems to violate more ranks in a skill than HD (6 in this case)
And I have 4 ranks left over.
What am I missing?
thanks
chopswil wrote: So for (GMG p. 287)
Human Fighter 6
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills Craft (weapons) +3, Handle Animal +11, Profession
(soldier) +5, Ride +9, Survival +5
Ranks = 6 * ( 2 + 0) + 6 (human) = 18
Craft (weapons) +3: -1 (Int) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Handle Animal +11: +0 (Cha) +3 (trained) +8 ranks
Profession (soldier) +5: +1 (Wis) +3(trained) +1 rank
Ride +9: +3 (Dex) +3 (trained} +3 rank
Survival +5: +1 (Wis) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Doesn't seems to fit: 8 ranks in Handle Animal seems to violate more ranks in a skill than HD (6 in this case)
And I have 4 ranks left over.
What am I missing?
thanks
Check his feats for Animal Affinity affecting his Handle Animal and Ride skills. That would be the +2 your missing on Handle Animal, would reduce his Ride skill ranks by 2 (since that feat gives a +2 to Handle Animal and Ride, the value listed could be made with 1 skill rank, 3 Dex, 2 feat, 3 trained), giving you 6 free ranks, which could instead be 6 hp.
While one of the goals with Pathfinder was to clean up the process of NPC creation (hence the loss of cross-class skills), you still have to keep track of multiple sources for the values. Never forget to look up the feats and equipment, they can come back to bite you!
Lathiira wrote: chopswil wrote: So for (GMG p. 287)
Human Fighter 6
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills Craft (weapons) +3, Handle Animal +11, Profession
(soldier) +5, Ride +9, Survival +5
Ranks = 6 * ( 2 + 0) + 6 (human) = 18
Craft (weapons) +3: -1 (Int) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Handle Animal +11: +0 (Cha) +3 (trained) +8 ranks
Profession (soldier) +5: +1 (Wis) +3(trained) +1 rank
Ride +9: +3 (Dex) +3 (trained} +3 rank
Survival +5: +1 (Wis) +3 (trained) +1 rank
Doesn't seems to fit: 8 ranks in Handle Animal seems to violate more ranks in a skill than HD (6 in this case)
And I have 4 ranks left over.
What am I missing?
thanks
Check his feats for Animal Affinity affecting his Handle Animal and Ride skills. That would be the +2 your missing on Handle Animal, would reduce his Ride skill ranks by 2 (since that feat gives a +2 to Handle Animal and Ride, the value listed could be made with 1 skill rank, 3 Dex, 2 feat, 3 trained), giving you 6 free ranks, which could instead be 6 hp.
While one of the goals with Pathfinder was to clean up the process of NPC creation (hence the loss of cross-class skills), you still have to keep track of multiple sources for the values. Never forget to look up the feats and equipment, they can come back to bite you! you're correct, he has Animal Affinity
I hate to say it, but I think almost all the skill blocks and hp calculations in the GMG are out to lunch. I have a nice little self-written excel sheet that accounts for favoured classes, skill boosting feats, even skill boosting items, and in almost every one of the characters I have tested out (from Battle Mage through Pickpocket, plus acolyte to double check the OP) I wind up with hit point values, final skill bonusses, or skill point numbers that are just way out of whack.
By putting the acolyte's favoured class bonus into skill points I was able to get HP and skill point totals I can agree with. However, there is no way I can find to get a +8 to heal: 1 skill point, +3 for class skill, +2 for Wisdom of 15. No items to enhance Heal. No feats that enhance heal. These characters do not seem to be built with traits included.
Has anyone else figured any of these out?
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drakir2010 wrote: By putting the acolyte's favoured class bonus into skill points I was able to get HP and skill point totals I can agree with. However, there is no way I can find to get a +8 to heal: 1 skill point, +3 for class skill, +2 for Wisdom of 15. No items to enhance Heal. No feats that enhance heal. These characters do not seem to be built with traits included.
Has anyone else figured any of these out?
As mentioned above, the acolyte possesses a healer's kit which grants a +2 circumstance modifier to Heal Checks.
Wonz wrote: Drakir2010 wrote: By putting the acolyte's favoured class bonus into skill points I was able to get HP and skill point totals I can agree with. However, there is no way I can find to get a +8 to heal: 1 skill point, +3 for class skill, +2 for Wisdom of 15. No items to enhance Heal. No feats that enhance heal. These characters do not seem to be built with traits included.
Has anyone else figured any of these out?
As mentioned above, the acolyte possesses a healer's kit which grants a +2 circumstance modifier to Heal Checks. Blah. Missed that. Thanks Wonz.
Now what about that Cavalry (GMG 287)?
Assuming he's put all his FC into skills, he's got 8 unspent skill points by my count.
Why not write an adventure for your PCs instead of deconstructing stat blocks?
Sean K Reynolds wrote: Why not write an adventure for your PCs instead of deconstructing stat blocks? I was guessing that he was trying to learn how to make them himself and figured he was missing things. It's easy to do so as the formats for NPCs are always towards utility rather than construction.
Also learning a decent way to handle DM bookkeeping is helpful in generating additional NPCs from those he already has on hand.
This is why I like keeping the breakdown of such things in hidden text so that when you go back to it you can adjust it, either for new NPCs or to update/modify old ones. Also it works great managing your own character without having to rely upon a spreadsheet program to do so.
-James
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drakir2010 wrote: Wonz wrote: Drakir2010 wrote: By putting the acolyte's favoured class bonus into skill points I was able to get HP and skill point totals I can agree with. However, there is no way I can find to get a +8 to heal: 1 skill point, +3 for class skill, +2 for Wisdom of 15. No items to enhance Heal. No feats that enhance heal. These characters do not seem to be built with traits included.
Has anyone else figured any of these out?
As mentioned above, the acolyte possesses a healer's kit which grants a +2 circumstance modifier to Heal Checks. Blah. Missed that. Thanks Wonz.
Now what about that Cavalry (GMG 287)?
Assuming he's put all his FC into skills, he's got 8 unspent skill points by my count. Cavalry (GMG 287) has an INT of 8. Giving it 6 ranks of skill points without counting Favored Class.
It's CON is 12 but its HP line gives us a +9
We can therefore assume that 3 of the Favored class levels are being used for hp.
So we have 2+ INT(-1) skill points + 3 skill points for favored class.
We have a total of 9 skill points.
Now for the breakdown:
Craft(Weapons) 3 = +1(Rank) +3 (Class Skill) - 1 (Int)
Handle Animal 11 = +6(Rank) +3 (Class skill) + 0(Cha) + 2 (Animal Affinity)
Profession(Soldier) 5 = + 1(Rank) + 3 (Class Skill) +1 (WIS)
Ride 9 = +1(Rank) + 3(Class Skill) + 3(Dex) + 2(Animal Affinity)
Survival 5 = +1(Rank) + 3(Class Skill) +1(Wis)
Total ranks: 9
Surprisingly it seems the stat block's calculation doesn't seem to be taking the Banded Mail's armor penalty (-5 with Armor Training) on the Ride skill.
Sean K Reynolds wrote: Why not write an adventure for your PCs instead of deconstructing stat blocks? Hey, a developer called me out! Cool! This is why I love the Paizo message boards!:)
Either way, James Maissen summed up what I'm trying to do precisely. I have a nice little homemade character generator that I'm rather proud of, and I want to check it against "official" stat blocks and see if it works as well as I'd like it to. When the numbers come up wrong, I'm inclined to believe my generator is at fault, but, again calling back to James' comment, I have no way to reverse engineer the numbers. What Wonz has done here is precisely what I'm hoping to find out by asking on the message boards.
Thanks for the breakdown, Wonz, but I don't agree with what you've got there. I'm not trying to be antagonistic (messageboards lose inflection and I know I tend to look nastily blunt without it), I'd just like our numbers to line up. Here's the thing though: I think you straightened me out.
Your total actually shows 10 total ranks spent, not 9. And your total available skill points doesn't include the +1/level bonus for being human. However, once I punched in that Banded Mail into my generator (I only entered in the cavalry quickly to participate in the conversation; forgot armour check penalties apply to skills and ought to be included), and added that phantom 5 points I couldn't account for to ride, everything balanced! Yay!
Oh and in reply to Sean: I don't need to write adventures for my PCs. We're playing through the Savage Tide adventure path and loving every minute of it. :P
Drakir2010 wrote: Sean K Reynolds wrote: Why not write an adventure for your PCs instead of deconstructing stat blocks? Either way, James Maissen summed up what I'm trying to do precisely. I have a nice little homemade character generator that I'm rather proud of, and I want to check it against "official" stat blocks and see if it works as well as I'd like it to. When the numbers come up wrong, I'm inclined to believe my generator is at fault, but, again calling back to James' comment, I have no way to reverse engineer the numbers. What Wonz has done here is precisely what I'm hoping to find out by asking on the message boards.
Ditto, I'm a programmer by profession and in my spare time I'm working on a Combat program. A sub-program is parsing out a stat block, with all the ta-do over errata I thought I could validate the stat block for errors when I parse it.
Trying to work backwards to do the Skills math for any stat block, PC, NPC or Monster, is taking some thought.
oh, I do the Spell, Magic Item and Monster DBs over at www.d20pfsrd.com. Check them out. Monster has been updated with the latest errata.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drakir2010 wrote: Thanks for the breakdown, Wonz, but I don't agree with what you've got there. I'm not trying to be antagonistic (messageboards lose inflection and I know I tend to look nastily blunt without it), I'd just like our numbers to line up. Here's the thing though: I think you straightened me out.
Your total actually shows 10 total ranks spent, not 9. And your total available skill points doesn't include the +1/level bonus for being human. However, once I punched in that Banded Mail into my generator (I only entered in the cavalry quickly to participate in the conversation; forgot armour check penalties apply to skills and ought to be included), and added that phantom 5 points I couldn't account for to ride, everything balanced! Yay!
You got me there. Should have probably checked my math before posting. But waaaait! I can fix this!
Ok so I forgot about being a human. So he has an extra 6 points.
I actually had 10 ranks in my calculations so that leaves 5 points missing.
Add those 5 points to Ride and then you can take into account the Armor Penalty from the Banded Mail(-5) And it all works out.
Ride 9 = +6(Rank) + 3(Class Skill) + 3(Dex) + 2(Animal Affinity) - 5(Banded Mail Armor Penalty including Armor Training 1)
Once of these days I'll have to write an actual generator for Pathfinder.
Edit: Fixed tags
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