I played a Half-elf Swashbuckler in Savage Tide and he kind of kicked ass. He had Skill Focus: Bluff, a decent Charisma, Improved and Greater Feint, and the Expert Tactician feat from Sword and Fist which allows an extra attack against any flat-footed opponent. Before our hiatus I starting taking a level of Rogue (plan on doing 4) so with a successful feint (which he almost always got), he was doing rapier damage plus 3d6 three times per round. He was dropping opponents pretty handily with only the Weapon Training class feature (no focus or specialization yet or TWF yet).
Since I wasn't doing TWF, the move action wasn't a big deal. It was annoying before I got Improved Feint, but still fun and fit my theme. Things really got interesting with Greater Feint and Expert Tactician, if you are allowed to use 3.x material. With Full BAB, I was getting thrust attack damage nearly every round so for me it was worth it. YMMV
Ok starting a game where I will be playing a Swashbuckler (Tome of Secrets). I was going to go with a Two Weapon Fighting Build to draw upon the Swashbucklers Thrust (sneak attack like ability)and just wanted some advice. I will be the main fighter type in the game. Other player will be an Illusionist. We may be adding a third player (Rogue).
DM wanted a Heroic game so my starting physical stats ended up
Str: 15
Dex: 20
Con: 18He went with the heroic attribute route because plans on making magic rare and hard to come by. So no buying Keen weapons etc....
I was planning to go either Rapier/Short Sword or Dual Short Swords,
Rapier would give me an insane critical with the Swashbucklers "Find the Mark" ability (Threat range of 13-20, with improved critical)
Dual Shortswords allows me to take improved Crit and Weapon Focus etc...for both wielded weapons so leaning toward that route.
Here are the feats I was thinking.
Human: Two Weapon Fighting
1st: Dodge (main fighter need all AC I can, no healer in party)
3rd: Two Weapon Defense (need AC)
S3rd: Double Slice (prereq for Two Weapon Rend)
5th: Weapon Focus Shortsword
S6th: Improved Two Weapon fighting.
7th: Weapon Specialization: Short Sword
9th: Power Attack
S9th: Improved Critical: Short Sword
11th: Two Weapon Rend
S12th: Greater Weapon Focus: Short Sword
13th: Critical Focus
15th: Bleeding Critical
S15: Greater Weapon Specialization: Short Sword
17th: Staggering Critical
S18:
19: Stunning CriticalAlternately I could go Rapier/Shortsword and ditch the Weapon Focus/Specialization.
Advice?
Several things jump out at me:
-You don't need to take Dodge......TOS Swashbucklers get the Evade class ability which is just like Dodge, only it goes up. Niiiicceee.
-Just because you get bonus feats, doesn't mean that you qualify for some of those feats (like Weapon Specialization) unless you take levels in Fighter....unless your DM ruled otherwise?
-I'm skeptical of the strength of Staggering and Stunning Critical, since they require saves. Bleeding and Sickening Critical have NO saves.
Also, Kalyth, what is the rest of the party makeup going to be in regard to other classes, and what sources are being allowed for the game?
I am debating on the Staggering/Stunning Crit. Just thought it would be nice if I did manage to stun something I would get Thrust damage for a few rounds without need to worry about flanking etc...I wanted a second Crit Feat to use once bleed was in since it doesnt stack with itself.
You got suggestions on feats to take in placec of Staggering/Stunning Crit?
I think the best Crit Mastery combo is Bleeding Critical and Sickening Critical......no saves against either one.
I suggest a purple suit, a big floppy hat, a fur coat and a walking stick.
Sorry, I saw the thread title and couldn't resist.
I suggest a purple suit, a big floppy hat, a fur coat and a walking stick.
Sorry, I saw the thread title and couldn't resist.
I was planning to go with a tight studded leather mini-dress and stiletto heels.
On a serious note. I do see the advantage of sickening critical over Staggering/Stunning may go that route.
Any other suggestions on feats?
Was going to skip Greater Two Weapon Fighting as an additional attack at effectively -12 really doesnt scream all that useful to me.
Power Attack??? With the -2 for TWF and the fact that secondary attacks will be at -7 (effectivel) not to mention the -12/-17 on the 3rd and 4th primary attacks, is Power Attack going to be effective? I could limit its use to standard actions when im only getting one attack anyway and get use out of it. Basically will I have high enough attack bonuses to afford to take the Power Attack penalty?
Beat by beat:
Two-Weapon Defense: I'm currently playing a TOS Swashbuckler, and it's great for the first level, then there's a weak period before you get magic armor and rings and stuff to boost your AC, so you might need it. Take a look at Mobility and Spring Attack, though. The Evade class ability means that you qualify for it, and those will be helpful.
Power Attack: I think that this and Combat Expertise have been nerfed to the point where they aren't really worth it until much later in the game. Add to that the aforementioned to-hit penalty, and these are kind of losers.
Focus/Specialization: Kind of divided on these. My swashbuckler uses a Rapier and a shortsword, but I might have gone that route if he was using just shortswords. But I thought it was more worth it to get the insanely high crit modifier from Find The Mark.
Too bad you don't have access to 3.5 stuff. If you did, you could make an elf who uses an elven thinblade and an elven lightblade from Races of the Wild. Both of them get the benefit of any feats directed at rapiers (like Weapon Focus and its tree and Improved Crit), so you'd get 1d6, 18-20x2 and 1d8, 18-20x2 for a base, only a -2 when two-weapon fighting, and one set of feats that cover both. Yes, it's horridly cheezy (spelled for effect), but dang if it ain't effective.
Just a suggestion but if you don't want enchanters to be pimping your swashbuckler I would really take Iron Will in there somewhere.
If you look at your chances to hit with Improved crit using Rapier (with improved crit) and short sword (without) to your chance of criting with dual shortswords (with imp crit) you end up with the...In your case, yes. But I'm guessing that I'll be able to find keen weapons with little difficulty in my game, and that Improved Critical would be a trap. One of the rules of optimization: Never take a feat for something easily available as a spell or magic item.
If you want insanely high crits, why not duel-wield kukris...then you can go the weapon path AND have wicked crits with each
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I'm only going to make a few points.
1. your a light fighter your AC won't matter squat after level 10. Get some more hp with toughness you will be better off. Unless you go with #4 and take monk levels in witch case you still take Toughness and pick up Dodge as a bouns feat. With Monk levels and a good Wis you can get to realy high AC. But you will still need the HP befor you get all the gear you need to make your AC that high.
2. Thegreenteagamer is right Kukris are the way to go. If you don't have access to Over Sized Two Weapon Fighting.
3. I wold incress your STR becous past level 10 you need to by pass DR! You don't have smight evil and you don't have access to the fighter feats to get past it.
4. Take a level of monk to add your Wis mod to your ac on top of your dex. That will help your will save more then Iron Will. In addition to that as a level 1 monk you get a free feat Dodge.
But thats my sugestions. Wold need more on your full stats to give any more. And if you rolled or point buy.
Good rule of thum for D&D past level 5. If your ac is less then your level X2 your geting hit. If your ac is your level X4 your geting hit half the time. If your AC is your level X6 your hardly ever geting hit. After level 10 its X 2 / x3 / X4
Kukris are not helpful here. In order to get their precision damage, Swashbucklers need to use Finessable piercing weapons.
Seconded on Iron Will. I took that for my Swashbuckler, and it was a worthwhile purchase.
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Winter Soldier Kurkis are finessible. Your armor caps out with a mod of + 9 with a + 5 mith chain shirt. Bracers of amor +8 is close to the same as you mith chain shirt. Bracers of armor don't have a max Dex Mod.
Bracers of armor +8 Armor Bounes 8
Dex 30 ( thats with out tomes of what you can hit) Dex Bounes 10
Wis base 14 + 6 enchanmetn = 20 Wis Bounes 5
Deflection Bouns Deflection 5
Natural Armor bouns Naturla Armor5
Dodge Bouns Dodge 6
Ring of Force Sheild Shield 2
Total AC 41
+5 Mithral Chain Shirt Armor Bounes 9
Dex 30 ( max dex mod 6 ) Dex Bounes 6
Deflection Bouns Deflection 5
Natural Armor Bouns Natural 5
Dodge Bouns Dodge 6
Ring of Force Shield Shield 2
Total AC 33
Thanks for lower my AC by making me where armor ?
Winter Soldier Kurkis are finessible. Your armor caps out with a mod of + 9 with a + 5 mith chain shirt. Bracers of amor +8 is close to the same as you mith chain shirt. Bracers of armor don't have a max Dex Mod.
Bracers of armor +8 Armor Bounes 8
Dex 30 ( thats with out tomes of what you can hit) Dex Bounes 10
Wis base 14 + 6 enchanmetn = 20 Wis Bounes 5
Deflection Bouns Deflection 5
Natural Armor bouns Naturla Armor5
Dodge Bouns Dodge 6
Ring of Force Sheild Shield 2Total AC 41
+5 Mithral Chain Shirt Armor Bounes 9
Dex 30 ( max dex mod 6 ) Dex Bounes 6
Deflection Bouns Deflection 5
Natural Armor Bouns Natural 5
Dodge Bouns Dodge 6
Ring of Force Shield Shield 2Total AC 33
Thanks for lower my AC by making me where armor ?
Yes, Kukris are finessable, but they are Slashing, not Piercing, therefore unable to inflict Thrust damage.
Though good advice if I ever play in a high magic campaine. So will keep it in mind.
You mean a "standard" magic campaign. You are currently in a "low" magic campaign when it comes to magical loot.