| Cilveran |
Hi!
A fighter with sword and shield and shield slam gets affected by the enlarge person spell. He now has 10 ft reach and is able to do an AoO against a charging enemy.
Say I hit him with a shield slam and successfully bullrushes him with my shield slam, making him back up from 10ft to 15ft in his charge action, would this break the charge? Would it simply add +5ft to the charge range?
What´s happened is his entire momentum is gone, he´s gone from running full speed ahead to being knocked back on his heels and actually going backwards.
I don´t think the rules state anything specific in this scenario, but what is your opinion and is this covered somewhere in the rule book?
| Mauril |
Well, extrapolating what actually happens, as a DM, I would have to rule that the charge ended. Here's why. A charge needs to be a direct, straight line from the charger's starting point to the target. When he gets bullrushed and travels backward 5 feet, his direct path has been interrupted and his charge ends. He has not traveled in a straight line but something of a Z pattern (forward-backward-forward). However, I would also rule that, if the charging character had used less than a full move distance, that I might downgrade the "charge" action into a "move" action, leaving the character with a standard action left. I would be more likely to make this change for a player than a monster.
I can, however, see some of the logic in simply adding 5 feet to the charge (or whatever the distance of the bullrush turned out to be, since it can be more than 5 feet). RAW is ambiguous on the issue (as far as I can tell), so it will likely come down to DM interpretation until an FAQ can be set up.
| Skylancer4 |
Well, extrapolating what actually happens, as a DM, I would have to rule that the charge ended. Here's why. A charge needs to be a direct, straight line from the charger's starting point to the target. When he gets bullrushed and travels backward 5 feet, his direct path has been interrupted and his charge ends. He has not traveled in a straight line but something of a Z pattern (forward-backward-forward). However, I would also rule that, if the charging character had used less than a full move distance, that I might downgrade the "charge" action into a "move" action, leaving the character with a standard action left. I would be more likely to make this change for a player than a monster.
***
I can, however, see some of the logic in simply adding 5 feet to the charge (or whatever the distance of the bullrush turned out to be, since it can be more than 5 feet). RAW is ambiguous on the issue (as far as I can tell), so it will likely come down to DM interpretation until an FAQ can be set up.
I would have to point out this is incorrect, the charge occurs towards an opponent that has (10'?) reach from an enlarge person spell (assumption being a medium sized humanoid). The AoO doesn't happen until the attacker leaves the threatened square (10' away to adjacent square), that means the attacker is actually performing the attack when the AoO is triggered. Both events are happening simultaneously at this point because if the charge stopped at the 10' away square the AoO would never occur. Resolve the charge, resolve the AoO and apply the bull rush results.
In order for it to work the way you have described the defender would have had to ready an action to hit the attacker once in range (from the 15' to 10' square where they threaten).
StabbittyDoom
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Mauril wrote:Well, extrapolating what actually happens, as a DM, I would have to rule that the charge ended. Here's why. A charge needs to be a direct, straight line from the charger's starting point to the target. When he gets bullrushed and travels backward 5 feet, his direct path has been interrupted and his charge ends. He has not traveled in a straight line but something of a Z pattern (forward-backward-forward). However, I would also rule that, if the charging character had used less than a full move distance, that I might downgrade the "charge" action into a "move" action, leaving the character with a standard action left. I would be more likely to make this change for a player than a monster.
***
I can, however, see some of the logic in simply adding 5 feet to the charge (or whatever the distance of the bullrush turned out to be, since it can be more than 5 feet). RAW is ambiguous on the issue (as far as I can tell), so it will likely come down to DM interpretation until an FAQ can be set up.I would have to point out this is incorrect, the charge occurs towards an opponent that has (10'?) reach from an enlarge person spell (assumption being a medium sized humanoid). The AoO doesn't happen until the attacker leaves the threatened square (10' away to adjacent square), that means the attacker is actually performing the attack when the AoO is triggered. Both events are happening simultaneously at this point because if the charge stopped at the 10' away square the AoO would never occur. Resolve the charge, resolve the AoO and apply the bull rush results.
In order for it to work the way you have described the defender would have had to ready an action to hit the attacker once in range (from the 15' to 10' square where they threaten).
Actually (even though the AoO triggers as they leave the 10' mark to enter the 5' mark) the AoO resolves BEFORE the action that triggers it (the action triggering being the movement). Since this movement must occur before the attack, the result is: move starts, AoO, move resolves, attack. Since the AoO interrupts the move, the attack may or may not be possible (which is the original question).
Personally, I'd call the charge stopped but (if they haven't used more than a move action of movement) give them their standard action, and even what might be left of the move action. The charge is mostly momentum and getting knocked back stops that momentum dead in its tracks.
| Cilveran |
Thanks for the input guys!
So I see there is no consensus here at the moment at least. Personally I´d say it´s a charge stoppage, and maybe let the charger get his standard action depending on how far he´s already moved in his charge action.
However it´ll be up to my DM to give the final verdict on that one when we get there in a couple of levels, unless someone has a darn good argument for whatever viewpoint, or I get the official word on this...
Also, the AoO happens as he is leaving the square, but before he arrives in the next one, so he gets pushed from 10ft to 15 ft before the attack happens. I´m pretty certain that is the RAW.