I'm currently running this adventure in an underground dungeon (are they any others?), and one of the rooms states the following:
The passage back to this small room is barely big enough for a human to squeeze through (reducing movement to 1/3 normal and negating all bonuses for high Dexterity). Although after going about half way a small light source can be seen in the next room. Just before entering the next room, a blinding beam of light flies down the passage and a shrieking alarm goes off.
A beholder guards this room, having been tasked by an evil wizard. Fortunately the wizard remembers to feed his captive guard and since the wizard resides in the city above, is quite close by, and will undoubtedly hear the alarm spell that the character triggered.
Looking into this room reveals five floating round beings, one that is unmistakably a beholder, the others possible related monsters. The beholder is in a perfect position to attack anything that tries to squeeze into the room through the narrow passage.
The passage is 20' long, from the start of the main room to the chamber at the end of the passage. A beholders attack is a touch based Ray attack +9; additionally, if the ray actually hits, there is a save DC of 17 to avoid the ray's effects using Fortitude or Willpower (not Reflex). However, it does have 10-attacks. So my question is, if a human-sized character is inside this passage, would they would be considered prone or helpless? I mean, there is a 100% chance this ray will strike whoever is in the passage so I'd consider the character helpless, thus the auto-hit. And what about the saving throw? I don't think the characters save would be affected because it's not a Reflex based save. Am I correct? Finally, how many of the ray effects would you allow in this narrow passage? I'm leaning towards only one per round, however making it auto-hit. Am I correct in doing this?
If the beholder gets a surprise round I would allow one ray. If they see each other at the same time, and initiative is rolled then on the beholder's go it gets all 10 attacks. They are not helpless by the rules, and even so, being helpless is not an auto-hit unless you call for a coup de grace which requires you to be right beside the opponent, and it takes a full round action. As far as the saving throw you use the one in the book.
I'm currently running this adventure in an underground dungeon (are they any others?), and one of the rooms states the following:
The passage is 20' long, from the start of the main room to the chamber at the end of the passage. A beholders attack is a touch based Ray attack +9; additionally, if the ray actually hits, there is a save DC of 17 to avoid the ray's effects using Fortitude or Willpower (not Reflex). However, it does have 10-attacks. So my question is, if a human-sized character is inside this passage, would they would be considered prone or helpless? I mean, there is a 100% chance this ray will strike whoever is in the passage so I'd consider the character helpless, thus the auto-hit. And what about the saving throw? I don't think the characters save would be affected because it's not a Reflex based save. Am I correct? Finally, how many of the ray effects would you allow in this narrow passage? I'm leaning towards only one per round, however making it auto-hit. Am I correct in doing this?The passage back to this small room is barely big enough for a human to squeeze through (reducing movement to 1/3 normal and negating all bonuses for high Dexterity). Although after going about half way a small light source can be seen in the next room. Just before entering the next room, a blinding beam of light flies down the passage and a shrieking alarm goes off.
A beholder guards this room, having been tasked by an evil wizard. Fortunately the wizard remembers to feed his captive guard and since the wizard resides in the city above, is quite close by, and will undoubtedly hear the alarm spell that the character triggered.
Looking into this room reveals five floating round beings, one that is unmistakably a beholder, the others possible related monsters. The beholder is in a perfect position to attack anything that tries to squeeze into the room through the narrow passage.
Reduced movement and negation of dex does NOT = immobile or helpless or prone. It is reduced movement and no dex and that is it. The reality of combat is that even in tight spaces if your can move SOME you can defend SOME. Use the midifiers given and fight it out.
Hopefully the party uses some methods to scout the obviously deadly corridor that do not mean a character is in there. Otherwise they probably deserve what they get for their shortsightedness.
Hopefully the party uses some methods to scout the obviously deadly corridor that do not mean a character is in there. Otherwise they probably deserve what they get for their shortsightedness.
I have not run this leg of the dungeon yet. I'm reading ahead and planning for the future because the last time I used a Beholder in my campaign, it didn't go as I planned - or didn't plan would be more appropriate to say. I assume from they way they've been playing that they'll either send in the "big guy" paid Human NPC first, or the large PC fighter who recently joined the party, even though the majority of the players are halflings.
Reduced movement and negation of dex does NOT = immobile or helpless or prone. It is reduced movement and no dex and that is it. The reality of combat is that even in tight spaces if your can move SOME you can defend SOME. Use the midifiers given and fight it out.
You are correct about the character not being helpless. I'll have the beholder make his ray attack(s) normally. I would like to add that from my reading of the description, the passage would be tight even for a halfling, thus a human would have to squeeze through literally pulling himself through the opening at a slow pace, arms narrowly stretched in front of him to allow his torso to pass through. So, to say he has his Dodge and Dexterity AC negated is a given. Additionally, the only part visible for the beholder's ray to strike = head + hands, meaning since nobody in the party is wearing a helmet, gauntlets, or bracers, I can assume their Armor AC is also a big fat zero for this particular encounter, however in retrospect, I don't believe the ray effects should have to use the Armors AC to hit since the ray does not have to penetrate the armor to take effect.
As to the surprise, I doubt anyone traveling in this dungeon would *not* expect something at the other end of that tunnel, so no surprise the first round. The characters who I assume would go through the tunnel have a Speed of 30, so if their movement was reduced to 1/3, then they can move 10' a round. Even if they won initiative, they'd have two rounds of beholder rays hitting them - quite a deadly trap I'd say.
As for how many stalks can attack, I am under the impression that in the 6-seconds of a round, each stalk must see it's opponent that round to make it's attack. I don't know how long each ray takes to fire, but assuming only one eye-stalk can view the opening at a time (I am assuming this), then if each attack took 1 second, I'd say the beholder could use a maximum of 6-rays (1-per second) if he made his full attack. Thoughts?
stuff about not letting all 10 rays attacks
If you go by the book that is how it is supposed to go. The rays are done as a free action(IIRC), and that is how all 10* of them can be released in one round. I do beleive only 3 or 4 can be aimed in a general direction though**, but don't quote me on that part. You as the DM can be nice and only allow 6 per round, but 10 is how many can actually be used.
*If the book says 10 then it is 10.
** I think the book says only so many rays can be pointed in one 90 degree angle.
The armor has no affect on the ability of the rays to his since rays use touch attacks.
...Additionally, the only part visible for the beholder's ray to strike = head + hands, meaning since nobody in the party is wearing a helmet, gauntlets, or bracers, I can assume their Armor AC is also a big fat zero for this particular encounter, however in retrospect, I don't believe the ray effects should have to use the Armors AC to hit since the ray does not have to penetrate the armor to take effect.
Don't rays shoot at touch AC anyways? Definately not a fun situation for whoever gets into the corridor unless they have astounding stealth or are invisible or Gaseous or EXTREMELY small so the corridor is a non factor.
As to the surprise, I doubt anyone traveling in this dungeon would *not* expect something at the other end of that tunnel, so no surprise the first round...
Not meaning to offend but suspecting something is there is a constant in an adventurers world. If that was enough to cancel suprise no adventurer would EVER be surpised. That is what spot and stealth checks are for.
Only 3 rays can target a single 90 degree arc at any given time, so unless they were spread over his multiple vision arcs, you only get 3 per.. if its a 10' corrider or bigger you could say half the corridor is 1 arc and half is another but if its a 5' path, you are only getting 3 rays unless the beholder was silly enough to surround itself while squeezing.
Oh wow, I did not know that! However this complicates things. You see, the corridor is not 5' wide... it is perhaps a 2' to 2.5' wide hole you must crawl through, but it is straight and from point A to point B it is 20' long. So, the passage being a narrow hole, I would say it is not possible for more than one eye-stalk to look through the hole at a time, so using your example above, how many eye-stalks could look into the hole in a round?
Don't rays shoot at touch AC anyways?
Wow, I guess I knew this because I let my wizards use their touch-based attacks this way, but... I don't know why, when I read it in the MM, it just didn't click. Lets just say my last beholder encounter was a tragedy and leave it at that. This next encounter will be much, much different, lol.
As to the surprise, I doubt anyone traveling in this dungeon would *not* expect something at the other end of that tunnel, so no surprise the first round...Not meaning to offend but suspecting something is there is a constant in an adventurers world. If that was enough to cancel suprise no adventurer would EVER be surpised. That is what spot and stealth checks are for.
No offense taken. You are indeed correct sir.
Only 3 rays can target a single 90 degree arc at any given time, so unless they were spread over his multiple vision arcs, you only get 3 per.. if its a 10' corrider or bigger you could say half the corridor is 1 arc and half is another but if its a 5' path, you are only getting 3 rays unless the beholder was silly enough to surround itself while squeezing.Oh wow, I did not know that! However this complicates things. You see, the corridor is not 5' wide... it is perhaps a 2' to 2.5' wide hole you must crawl through, but it is straight and from point A to point B it is 20' long. So, the passage being a narrow hole, I would say it is not possible for more than one eye-stalk to look through the hole at a time, so using your example above, how many eye-stalks could look into the hole in a round?
If the beholder can see them he can shoot at them. The unfortunate PC gets 3 rays unless you want to be nice to them, but in that case I would just use a lesser monster.
As for the number of eye rays, it can fire 3 at the same target, so there is no need to restrict the number to one ray. It cannot get more than 3 in a 90 degree arc, so gaming the geometry to put the "boundary line" down the center of the target, getting 3 rays on each side of the boundary, is bogus too. If you do that, and count the rays, you will see that you are firing 6 rays at one target, all within an arc of just a degree or two, considerably less than the 90-degre limit.
So, pick your favorite three and blast the tunnel guy.
As for surprise, as someone has said, every adventurer always expects danger but that is no cause to rule that they are "unsurpriseable" because then there would never be any need for surprise rounds at all.
As for the guy in the tunnel, we first need to define this tunnel. See the squeezing rules I quoted below.
Options:
1. It is round but at least 2.5 feet diameter (half the space a medium creature needs).
2. It is round but less than 3.5 feet diameter (less than half the space a medium creature needs).
3. It is oval, or rectangle, taller than it is wide, at least 2.5 feet wide but tall enough to stand in.
4. It is oval, or rectangle, taller than it is wide, less than 2.5 feet wide but tall enough to stand in.
5. It is oval, or rectangle, wider than it is tall, at least than 2.5 feet tall.
6. It is oval, or rectangle, wider than it is tall, less than 2.5 feet tall.
(for game purposes, #5 is exactly like #1 and #6 is exactly like #2, except more than one PC might be able move side-by-side at the same time)
If the passage is not tall enough to stand (or crouch) in it (options 1, 2, 5, 6), then the guy in the tunnel is prone. This gives him a +4 bonus to AC which applies to touch AC, so while he loses his DEX for "squeezing", at least he gets the +4 AC. Prone gets +4 AC against ranged attacks. Prone also cannot return fire with a bow, or thrown weapon. Only with a crossbow or a spell.
Of course, if he's standing on his feet (options 3 or 4), squeezing through a tall narrow tunnel, then he won't get the +4 AC for being prone, which would make him an easier target.
So, for options 1 & 5, the PC is -4 on his attacks and +0 on AC (-4 for squeezing, +4 for prone). Each 5' he moves counts as 10' of his movement.
For options 2 & 6, the PC cannot attack, loses his DEX bonus to his AC, takes -4 +4 to his AC (so really he just loses his DEX). He must make Escape Artist checks to move. Failure means he cannot move and is stuck. Success means he moves a little bit, but the rules are somewhat unclear - it says it takes " at least 1 minute, maybe longer, depending on how long the space is" which is a bit vague. Me, I would rule that it takes 1 minute to squeeze through a length equal to the character's base move, so a human in light or no armor could move 30 feet in one minute.
For option 3, it's just like options 1 & 5 except he doesn't gain +4 AC.
For option 4, it's just like options 2 & 6 except he doesn't gain +4 AC.
Squeezing: In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn't as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.
To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space's width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can't attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
Thank you guys very much! You have answered all of my questions expertly and now I can run this room as intended without any hiccups. I will be using 3-rays and will make standard touch-based attacks. For the squeezing, option #6 crawling, not standing, so whoever is in the tunnel will loose their Dex bonus and Dodge AC, +4/-4 AC, cannot attack and must pass an Escape Artist check to move. I will also make sure that whoever is in the tunnel will roll an opposed Perception Check (his) versus the Beholders Stealth + Invisibility for being shrouded in complete blackness before the attack. This should be a very exciting encounter.
I was picturing in my head something similar to Ted's Caving, but perhaps a wee bit larger.
Thank you guys very much! You have answered all of my questions expertly and now I can run this room as intended without any hiccups. I will be using 3-rays and will make standard touch-based attacks. For the squeezing, option #6 crawling, not standing, so whoever is in the tunnel will loose their Dex bonus and Dodge AC, +4/-4 AC, cannot attack and must pass an Escape Artist check to move. I will also make sure that whoever is in the tunnel will roll an opposed Perception Check (his) versus the Beholders Stealth + Invisibility for being shrouded in complete blackness before the attack. This should be a very exciting encounter.
A couple other points to consider then:
1. If the beholder is in the dark, flying, and not clumsy enough to bump into anything, there is very little chance for the PCs to hear it, except maybe they might hear it breathing.
2. On the other hand, they are scraping along on their bellies (maybe the tunnel has little bits of gravel too, resulting in the sound of rock scraping on rock as they slide along). Armor, weapons, etc., are probably clanking and scraping on stone too. This is not a quiet mode of travel. It's very likely that the beholder will hear them a long time before they might hear it.
3. If the PCs have any light at all, then a beholder in the dark will see that light a mile away, even if he's not looking directly down that tunnel. That's the point when it starts sitting very still, holding its breath, being super quiet. Staying out of sight of that tunnel exept maybe for one "fine" eyeball peeking around the corner to watch. Nothing for the PCs to see or hear. Spotting that "fine" eyeball, at distance, would be fairly difficult. If someone can see in the dark, the DC is Beholder's Steatlh roll + 8 (Fine - only one eyeball is visible) +1 per 10' distance, maybe +5 for distraction as the PCs figure out how to squirm through the tunnel. That could be a very hard DC to make the perception check.
4. Assuming it successfully hides, it will watch to see who is coming first. Heavy armor, it will assume fighter with good FORT saves and will choose attacks that cause WILL saves. Beholders are smart enough to plan their attacks like this, especially if they get a few rounds to watch the party and figure out who is what class.
Now, your PC can be stuck in that tunnel for a whole minute. That's 10 rounds = 30 eye ray attacks. Almost all of them will hit. Nobody makes that many saves.
Have you thought about what happens when the fighter gets charmed halfway through the tunnel? Or maybe just 10 rounds of inflict moderate wounds and finger of death to liquify him in the tunnel? That's an average of 340 HP if the fighter makes all 20 saves as he crawls through through the tunnel. Or for real fun, let him get 7 or 8 rounds into it then Fear him so he can spend another 7 or 8 rounds scooting backward...
And if a rogue goes in first, well, he's going to make a fine permanent addition to the Beholder's lair once he gets turned to stone. Not to mention, a fine stone cork to block off that pesky tunnel for good.
What would be really funny is if the party uses Reduce Person to shrink down and go throgh the tunnel. Once two or three of them are happily in the tunnel, hit them with the central eye and watch them swell up in that tunnel and get stuck for good. I hope someone has a teleport to get them out of there...
This scene could easily become a TPK if that beholder has half a brain, and with INT 17 and WIS 15, he has more than half a brain.
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If they send the hireling in first, make sure to use the flesh to stone beam first, and block the passage with hireling statue!
Then the Wizard and his Beholder, etc. have plenty of time to prep. When the Beholder is ready to destroy them, he can use his disintegrate beam to carve a passage big enough to go after them (maybe from above or below, even.)
If you want to be really mean, have the beholder keep firing beams past the statue through whatever gaps there are.
EDIT: I see DM Blake gave similar advice with better tactics regarding armor reading and types of saves. Still, think about heavy use of that disintegrate beam to come at them from different angles. :)
Still, think about heavy use of that disintegrate beam to come at them from different angles. :)
I love the different angles approach.
The last two times I had PCs enter a beholder's death-trap, er, I mean "lair", we had multiple PC deaths, even though both times the PCs were higher level than the beholder's CR.
Beholders think in 3-D. They fly perfectly, without wings, so moving up is just as easy for them as moving horizontally. So I build their lairs in 3-D because they like it that way, and they're smart enough to realize that creatures that evolved to walk are not good at thinking in 3-D. Beholders teach this to their children in beholder kindergarten.
Gravity is also a beholder's friend. Create a very long vertical shaft and fly up it. Now the invaders must climb their way up, something few of them are good at. Drop something heavy on them. What to drop? Well, turn the top one into a statue and it will fall on the rest. Or just disintegrate part of the roof above the shaft so that what's left falls on the invaders.
But, what if they use magic to fly up the shaft behind the beholder? No problem! Nothing says that a creature with 11 eyes has to face any of those eyes in the direction it is flying, especially since it has perfect maneuverability. So, pick one eyestalk, or two for depth perception, to watch up the tunnel, and then it can focus any of its other eyes down the tunnel at the invaders chasing it. Particularly the big antimagic eye to negate the invaders' flying magic and watch all the no-longer-flying invaders fall to the bottom of the shaft. Then the beholder flies out the top of his shaft and drops the heavy thing...
Beholders also like to come up from below their enemies, but since they can't see them through the stone, it's harder. So they set a trap. Pick a spot in a small room somewhere. Put some treasure there, or something interesting. Or a dangerous trap. Or some charmed minions. While the invaders stop to deal with whatever it is, the beholder gets directly below them (just off to the side a little bit) in a tunnel it created for this purpose, then disintegrates the floor under the invaders' feet, watching them fall into the very deep vertical shaft it had previously created with its disintegrate beam. And it's fond of watching them fall, using its central eye, just to make sure nobody pops a Feather Fall spell on the way down. Oh, and it has a heavy thing here too, ready to drop on top of them.