Now, I know at 2nd level an Alchemist can learn Infusion so that other party members can drink one of his Extracts and use the spell in question, but what about Extracts that function like the Cure Wounds line of spells?
Cure Light Wounds, for example, has a target of 'Creature Touched'. Does that mean the Alchemist can quaff an Extract of Cure Light Wounds then touch a target to heal it? Or does the Extract simply target the Alchemist alone?
The way I'm reading the rules, however, the alchemist is the only one affected by the spells. Which I am calling bullhockey, but then again if the alchemist wants to be a healer, he'd best start churning out healing potions via the Brew Potion bonus feat he recieves.
So I guess what I'm asking is the only way an Alchemist can 'heal' people is to take the Infusion Discovery, the Heal skill and their Potions, correct? Bleh.
Now, I know at 2nd level an Alchemist can learn Infusion so that other party members can drink one of his Extracts and use the spell in question, but what about Extracts that function like the Cure Wounds line of spells?
Cure Light Wounds, for example, has a target of 'Creature Touched'. Does that mean the Alchemist can quaff an Extract of Cure Light Wounds then touch a target to heal it? Or does the Extract simply target the Alchemist alone?
The way I'm reading the rules, however, the alchemist is the only one affected by the spells. Which I am calling bullhockey, but then again if the alchemist wants to be a healer, he'd best start churning out healing potions via the Brew Potion bonus feat he recieves.
So I guess what I'm asking is the only way an Alchemist can 'heal' people is to take the Infusion Discovery, the Heal skill and their Potions, correct? Bleh.
Sorry to Say yes, But this has not been a problem in my game, Making Potions is easy relatively cheep and it is kind of fun make all of the pcs chip in to have healing potions instead of just shouting "heal me". Besides Alchemist are not meant to be the healer, just the back up healer.
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The extract is much like a potion of the spell, target is always the person who drinks it. The infusion extract is the only way. Alchemists are not a great healing class even with the infusion discovery.
So yeah, you have it right, however...
Except for clerics (and often even with clerics) the wand of cure light wounds is your friend and the alchemist can use one.
FWIW infusion is great in some ways because it allows the summoner to create extracts of a whole lot of self only spells enabling them to 'cast' spells on non-casters that are otherwise difficult to cast on them. Alchemist is the only party member who can use alter self on the entire party. Lots of other interesting self only spells they can hand out in the form of extracts.
1st level
Shield, Alter Self, Identify, True Strike
2nd
Alter Self, False life...
You can also make extracts with multiple effects so you can give the fighter a potion of shield/ enlarge self he can take as a standard action.
Definitely not a healer but it opens up some interesting avenues
Yeah the alchy definitely gives the cleric a run for second place in the best buffer category. Having an Alchy is the only way to have the following spells for potions or extracts:
Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Comprehend languages, False Life, See Invisibility, Arcane Sight, Beast Shape 1~4, Elemental Form 1~3, Dragon form 1, Giant Form 1, Overland Flight, and Polymorph
Many of those spells are things that any fighter would give his eyeteeth to be able to use as a move action and the alchy can give him that ability.
Yeah the alchy definitely gives the cleric a run for second place in the best buffer category. Having an Alchy is the only way to have the following spells for potions or extracts:
Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Comprehend languages, False Life, See Invisibility, Arcane Sight, Beast Shape 1~4, Elemental Form 1~3, Dragon form 1, Giant Form 1, Overland Flight, and Polymorph
Many of those spells are things that any fighter would give his eyeteeth to be able to use as a move action and the alchy can give him that ability.
So, is this confirmed anywhere?
I assume you're referencing the bit in the alchemist rules that says he can make a potion out of any formula that he knows.
Me, I don't believe that the intent is for that rule to break the one about "personal" spells, and I think reading it that way is just wishful thinking on the part of people who want their alchemists to be really cool. Yeah, yeah, I know that "specific" trumps "general", but in this case, it sounds like a "general" conflicting with a "general", in which case, I always go for CORE over expansion.
Maybe that's just me.
So does anyone have an official cite that says the alchemist can break the Bew Potion "personal" rule that no other class can break?
JJ stated it in another thread asking just that question.
Also doesn't really matter. The Alchy can just infusion the extracts instead and give them to the fighter that way.
Either way personal spells aren't personal any more with an alchy around.
J stated it in another thread asking just that question.w/regards to potions? That's pretty strange. I'm with you on the extracts but there is nothing in the class that talks about potions being able to craft potions you wouldn't be able to normally.
Actually you are right I can't find where JJ has stated one way or another though the question has come up before -- I had thought he had commented already.
Anyways -- here's what leads to the question:
From the Alchemist's text:
"At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. "
He's the only character class to have a line stating such in his abilities -- everyone else (including the witch) only gets the Brew Potion bonus feat. The Alchy's specifically states any formulae on his list.
Anyways -- here's what leads to the question:
From the Alchemist's text:
"At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. "He's the only character class to have a line stating such in his abilities -- everyone else (including the witch) only gets the Brew Potion bonus feat. The Alchy's specifically states any formulae on his list.
My take:
Alchemists are the only class with that bolded bigger line because they are the only class that doesn't use to brew potions. The author of the class probably meant to say something like "An alchemist can brew potions using his formulae much like any other spellcasting classes would use spells, and all the usual rules for brewing potions apply as if these formulae were spells."
Or something like that.
But it is a Beta class, and the wording was careless. Or so I believe. I would love to see something official either way, but I'll settle for better clarity, one way or the other, in the actual APG when I get it.
Creative Director
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All of the six new base classes mess with expectations and party roles and the like in some way.
For the alchemist, it's the conception that spells/magic can be used to enhance allies. The alchemist isn't really interested in enhancing allies directly with his magic. There's ways he can do it, but doing so is not the alchemist's focus. He's intended to be a relatively "selfish" magic using class, which is certainly an unusual role. But it's an interesting one.
And yes... in the final rules, alchemists can brew normal potions of his spells. This was accidentally left out of the original beta rules, and I believe it was fixed in a later beta release even.
It is interesting and I wouldn't say he's the best buffer (bards are hands down on that) but he is really good at it since he can (if he so chooses) set up his allies with the buffs their characters will want to take themselves with a move action each. Now it doesn't eat into his extracts per day, however with his potions ability he can still have plenty of extra available (apparently following the normal rules? Just for clarity) and still has his mutagen for himself too.
I see this mostly benefiting a single front line type in the party in addition to the alchemist (of course).
Since he can give the front liner overland flight and see invisibility plus a shield bonus to AC if he so chooses he still makes a great buffer -- but I fully agree he has lots of other great things to do including working on his own with self buffing.
Off topic, but: a wand of a self only spell (like false life) can be used to cast it on another person, or only on the wand-user? Another one: which is the range of spells in a wand? The same of the spell? (so I have to touch the target with a wand of cure light wounds?)
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Off topic, but: a wand of a self only spell (like false life) can be used to cast it on another person, or only on the wand-user? Another one: which is the range of spells in a wand? The same of the spell? (so I have to touch the target with a wand of cure light wounds?)
When you cast a spell from a wand the range and targets are the same as if you were a caster of the wands caster level cast them.
And yes... in the final rules, alchemists can brew normal potions of his spells. This was accidentally left out of the original beta rules, and I believe it was fixed in a later beta release even.
Yes, that's the version I've downloaded.
The question here, really, is whether the alchemist is allowed to break the rule that says "Potions cannot be made from 'Personal' spells", which is in the Core book under Potions, but seems like it might have been overruled by the alchemist class version of Brew Potion.
Or that might have just been accidental mis-wording of the Brew Potion feat in the class description.
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My take:Alchemists are the only class with that bolded bigger line because they are the only class that doesn't use to brew potions. The author of the class probably meant to say something like "An alchemist can brew potions using his formulae much like any other spellcasting classes would use spells, and all the usual rules for brewing potions apply as if these formulae were spells."
See, I have the opposite take. My feelings is it was worded that way to specifically point out the special capabilities of the alchemist. The alchemist's spell list is extremely limited, so every personal spell is not just now available as a potion. The text even goes on to state they can only be up to 3rd level, so that is another clue to me that they can brew a potion of ANY formulae on their list up to 3rd level; that the any formulae on their list is a special exception to the rules.
But I will agree the wording could be made MUCH clearer in either direction depending on what their intention was, and as such until we get official clarification, its a DM interpretation of what the rules actually intend.
Anyway about it with the infusion ability like it is the cat's out of the bag -- those personal spells will be going to other characters that normally can't get them.