I do think Kingmaker has a surge of popularity and interest from players who aren't normally Paizo fans. I do suspect that the high post count has more to do with the new rules subsystems that have been introduced. Exploring and Kingdom Building are new, so even if you had the same level of popularity you'd get more posts as people ask questions. It won't be until the sales numbers are in for the entire path that we can really tell if the entire path is more popular. It could be that more people buy Volume 2 just to look at the Kingdom stuff, but less people buy Volume 6.
Of course Paizo is unlikely to provide numbers, but I would hazard a guess that they'd say something like "We are very pleased with Kingmaker's performance so far."
I do think Kingmaker has a surge of popularity and interest from players who aren't normally Paizo fans. I do suspect that the high post count has more to do with the new rules subsystems that have been introduced. Exploring and Kingdom Building are new, so even if you had the same level of popularity you'd get more posts as people ask questions. It won't be until the sales numbers are in for the entire path that we can really tell if the entire path is more popular. It could be that more people buy Volume 2 just to look at the Kingdom stuff, but less people buy Volume 6.
Of course Paizo is unlikely to provide numbers, but I would hazard a guess that they'd say something like "We are very pleased with Kingmaker's performance so far."
its the first PF module AP ive bought into
This also could be because KM has so much that can be used in other APs and generic PF...
Like the Sandbox Style, the Kingdom Building, and the Mass Combat sections
Or the fact that you get to Ally with Kobolds, Lizardmen and Boggards if you play your cards right...without having to go Evil...
Or the "Wanted Poster" game style
Or it could be the free Hireling Supplement...
Or the "Wanted Poster" game style
That part made me cringe, actually, though the rest of the module looks good. It just looks too much like a series of MMORPG "Kill Six Rats" quests. I haven't read through the whole thing, so I hope it plays out better than that. I may never run it, but I'm almost embarrassed to let other gamers see it.
I can see it raising some interesting role playing amongst the players as they prioritise their activity.
The Wanted Posters have been very popular with my players. Not only from a prioritising viewpoint, but players love hand-outs.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I can see it raising some interesting role playing amongst the players as they prioritise their activity.The Wanted Posters have been very popular with my players. Not only from a prioritising viewpoint, but players love hand-outs.
My players have enjoyed having the little mini-quests pop up, as they create another in-character tie to NPCs and events going on. It's not some arbitrary thing that just *happens* - it grows organically (or at least it FEELS organic to the players) out of the campaign.
Same with the rumors from the back of each mod - as they explore and gather news, they have an assortment of potential hooks to navigate, and the campaign world around them is dynamic. The hooks they take up, they deal with. The ones they DON'T, things happen with those as well.
The only one that has that feel the above poster described is the very first one "kill six bandits and get a reward." All of the rest have, I think, perfectly usable in-game rationales.
I think to some extent people were waiting to see if Pathfinder RPG was gonna work out.
I definitely think the Kingmaker format has met with approval, but I also think that the PRPG is a much bigger factor in subscription numbers. People may have avoided going into CoT because they thought the whole thing might collapse. 6 months later, PRPG is more a known quantity, exploring an old-school concept in a new way, people are going to feel much better about taking that 6-month plunge.
It's all a total guess, anyway. I just think that PRPG skepticism is the more likely explanation.
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If its any indication I'm running a Massive Multiplayer Offline RPG with 12+ players. Those "Poster" quests are a great way of seperating those players into smaller groups. That way they have a goal in the Stolen Lands outside of wander around mapping things.
In any case, I hope James Jacobs sees that their "Experimental" AP is already a smashing success.
Creative Director
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I should note that even just using the quests as a way for you the GM to keep track of what ones the PCs are on is a perfectly valid use for them. And even if you don't use that, the fact that they're so easy to find as sidebars or inside the covers is important—makes it easy for you to find them in play and give the PCs some direction.
Of course, if your PCs are good at giving themselves their own direction, you might not even need the quests. Of course... in nearly three decades of playing, I have yet to see ANY group of PCs that, when presented with a huge sandbox type game, are able to decide with any modicum of swiftness on one thing to do. Because everyone wants to be a star and the main character.
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I enjoy the posters. Lends that "wild west" ("savage south" maybe?) feel to the whole endeavor.
As for the post counts, yep, I think a lot of discussion has been on the topics of kingdom-building, exploration, etc. and both managing the new rules and modes of play and bringing those elements to life in the minds of players. There are also many threads on fan-made resources.
But if anything, I think that we come here and mull over these things and share ideas to the extent indicated by the post count shows that "Kingmaker" has fired the imaginations of lots of people.
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Creative Director
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Kingmaker seems to have brought in a LOT of new players. That, combined with the fact that the PF RPG itself has brought in a lot of new folks to the fold has something to do with it... remember, Kingmaker's the first AP to launch with the momentum of the PF RPG already established. Council of Thieves launched simultaneously with the core rulebook, not later once the core rulebook started making some pretty impressive ripples.
There's also the fact that a single AP is going to take most groups more than 6 months to play, but we put a new one out every 6 months. It could be that Kingmaker started when folks were finally finishing up Runelords or Crimson Throne or other APs.
I also think that the tripple-whammy of the sandbox style, the use of hexes, and the new rules subsystems got Kingmaker a lot of attention.
There's lots of possible reasons for the increase in post count, in other words. I suspect that all of those reasons are good news for Paizo. :)
The only one that has that feel the above poster described is the very first one "kill six bandits and get a reward." All of the rest have, I think, perfectly usable in-game rationales.
Possibly. But if I were an unscrupulous sort of person in the lawless frontier, and I saw a poster telling me Joe Homesteader wanted to give 50 gold to the group that killed a wild boar that was giving him trouble... Well, if the guy can't handle a boar, he probably can't defend himself against an unscrupulous sort of person coming to his house and taking that 50 gold. And Joe Homesteader might serve as a lesson to the others not to advertise how much disposable income they have.
In times of chaos, we must ask ourselves, "What would Al Swearengen do?"
Now, if I were to run the campaign, I would very likely use those quest ideas, but not as posters on a board. I'd have the PCs encounter those people individually, by chance at first, then as their reputation grew, have the people come directly to them. Not necessarily say what they'll pay up front, unless the PCs don't do anything without a promise of a reward.
For the kill-six-bandits quest, I might put a bounty on some sigil of membership that the bandits carry, not stop rewarding at six kills, and make the value of the bounty go down as time goes on (bandits are less of a problem and/or the guy's running low on reward money). Something to make it more organic.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The only one that has that feel the above poster described is the very first one "kill six bandits and get a reward." All of the rest have, I think, perfectly usable in-game rationales.Possibly. But if I were an unscrupulous sort of person in the lawless frontier, and I saw a poster telling me Joe Homesteader wanted to give 50 gold to the group that killed a wild boar that was giving him trouble... Well, if the guy can't handle a boar, he probably can't defend himself against an unscrupulous sort of person coming to his house and taking that 50 gold. And Joe Homesteader might serve as a lesson to the others not to advertise how much disposable income they have.
In times of chaos, we must ask ourselves, "What would Al Swearengen do?"
I have no idea who that is, but presumably a not-nice sort of person, so I think I can infer the meaning.
Now, if I were to run the campaign, I would very likely use those quest ideas, but not as posters on a board. I'd have the PCs encounter those people individually, by chance at first, then as their reputation grew, have the people come directly to them.
Ahhhhh, I think I misunderstood your original object.
I don't think that many (if any) of these "wanted posters" are intended to be literal "wanted posters" tacked on a board outside Ye Olde Tradinge Poste.
I think the flavor text on all of them indicates "NPC Bob has this problem. He gives this info to the PCs and offers a reward if they can do it." All of them presuppose either (a) a personal encounter with the NPC in question or (b) local rumor/gossip pointing to a particular individual who wants something done or knows about some local menace and might be able to point the PCs in the right direction. For Arven the fisherman wanting you to deal with Ol' Crackjaw or Stas and the hodag or Svetlana and her ring or "the alchemist" and shamblesap, the PCs can encounter it on either end of the rumor equation. Either:
1. They hear a rumor about the menace itself, and in tracking it down or researching it they "hear tell that so-and-so is offering a reward for (something to do with that menace)." This certainly would be the path for straight bounty adventures (king of the forest, troll bounty, bandit bounty/stag lord).
or
2. They hear that "so-and-so needs a hand with something" or they just happen to encounter that NPC with no foreknowledge, and in talking with the NPC they learn that this NPC or the locals nearby have a particular problem, using the "wanted poster" to simply serve up an adventure hook.
I would agree that using them as detached in-character posters that the characters see as the players see them would be pretty silly.
I think the intention is that these are game aids for the players to represent reward opportunities they have come across in the course of their normal interaction with the people and critters in the game world.
(They also have the convenience of having a picture of either the object of the quest or the person who offers it, plus a thumbnail of what the quest entails.)
In times of chaos, we must ask ourselves, "What would Al Swearengen do?"I have no idea who that is, but presumably a not-nice sort of person, so I think I can infer the meaning.
Al Swearengen of Deadwood fame would probably first call him a c**ksucker, and then put a bullet in his head.
Al Swearengen of Deadwood fame would probably first call him a c**ksucker, and then put a bullet in his head.In times of chaos, we must ask ourselves, "What would Al Swearengen do?"I have no idea who that is, but presumably a not-nice sort of person, so I think I can infer the meaning.
Any serious gamer, and especially GM, needs to have watch Deadwood! :)
Al Swearengen of Deadwood fame would probably first call him a c**ksucker, and then put a bullet in his head.In times of chaos, we must ask ourselves, "What would Al Swearengen do?"I have no idea who that is, but presumably a not-nice sort of person, so I think I can infer the meaning.
I don't know about that. Al was a smart cookie. He recognized that you can only get money from a dead man one time. A properly subdued man will keep paying you money for the rest of his life. Now if said subdued many were to grow a pair of b*!!& and find the wherewithall to question the reason for paying said funds, he may have to kill the uppity c**ksucker and take his money.
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Agree with Zaister! As mentioned up-thread, I get a Wild West vibe not just from the posters but from the frontier campaign in general. I'm looking forward to some good social and political maneuvering as when they establish a business with shady dealings in their home city, I'm going to start building up a Swearengen-esque character. First thought is gnome bard, heheh.
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Ha! My players lose direction when presented with a fork in a path!
Of course, if your PCs are good at giving themselves their own direction, you might not even need the quests.
Grats! KM posters we have passed Second Darkness in post count. Now all we need is 6000 more to pass Curse of the Crimson Throne. Keep up the posts lol.
Grats! KM posters we have passed Second Darkness in post count. Now all we need is 6000 more to pass Curse of the Crimson Throne. Keep up the posts lol.
Done and done. It'll be a tall order, however, to ever surpass Rise of the Runelords - especially given that the next couple APs which are due out which look like could be very popular themselves.
Yes, but RotRL has been around for... three+ years now? Whereas Kingmaker managed to surpass CotCT in a little less than a year. I've got faith in the KM forum thread. Let's go KM!
The sandbox nature is big as it means that no two campaigns are going to be look the same once you get past the first first couple modules. Each campaign will have different PC's as rulers, and thus different priorities and stories that shape the campaign. This means that, especially with the new rules presented, there is always going to be something that comes up that DMs will want to seek out the advice of others about as parties go off script or try to use the new rules.
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For what it's worth I own every AP up to CoT but was only buying them for the extra fluff and crunch at the back. My group (myself included) hates the amount of railroading required to run most published adventures. I jumped ahead in my AP buying to Kingmaker with the intention of actually running it. Prep is almost done and character creation has started and I plan to run it all the way to 20. I think Kingmaker has shown that it is possible to try something new with APs. I think the strong sense of personality that Carrion Crown looks like it will have is another example. I also think there is evidence that Paizo has taken note of lessons learned from producing Kingmaker, namely that some players would grow more attached to Brevoy than they thought when planing the adventure. I think that the amount of posts on this board have really gone a long way to helping Paizo see the many different ways people are going through the AP and they have responded with new info, an archetype and patience at our many questions. I also believe a thank you is in order for everybody who has been posting player hand outs and other helpful info (special mention for auld grene belte mappe) I think they have enhanced the games of a lot of people.
ditto! I truly appreciate all of the ideas and hard work everyone has donated to KM. My group loves this AP! I believe this will be the most popular AP! Thnx Paizo!
I took the posters with a degree of self-aware humor.
I think it's been there for quite a while. It'll be tough to catch RotRL at this rate... :)
I think it's been there for quite a while. It'll be tough to catch RotRL at this rate... :)
Conspiracy, I say!
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Kingmaker seems to have brought in a LOT of new players. That, combined with the fact that the PF RPG itself has brought in a lot of new folks to the fold has something to do with it... remember, Kingmaker's the first AP to launch with the momentum of the PF RPG already established. Council of Thieves launched simultaneously with the core rulebook, not later once the core rulebook started making some pretty impressive ripples.
There's also the fact that a single AP is going to take most groups more than 6 months to play, but we put a new one out every 6 months. It could be that Kingmaker started when folks were finally finishing up Runelords or Crimson Throne or other APs.
I also think that the tripple-whammy of the sandbox style, the use of hexes, and the new rules subsystems got Kingmaker a lot of attention.
There's lots of possible reasons for the increase in post count, in other words. I suspect that all of those reasons are good news for Paizo. :)
I strongly believe it was all of the above. The timing of new rule set and sandbox style play excited a lot of gamers new and not so new. Most everyone I've told about this PF has enjoyed some don't like that the pcs have so many choices to go. It brings back some Birthright memories for me and my friends.