Ok, so I am starting to prepare for the climax of a campaign that I have kicked around my brain for 10 years.
The quick gist of the story is (and I know it is rather cliche) the Evil god of darkness and an unwitting mortal conceived a child. The child, following his father in evil, was torn body and soul by crusaders, and scattered across the world. Once the pieces are collected by a cult dedicated to him, he will be reformed and take over the world. . blah, blah, blah.
My question(s) is: at what level would a party be able to fight a demi-god? How would you handle it? How do I figure out stats and powers for the demi-god?
I figured since his father was the god of darkness and his mother was mortal (the wife of a pharaoh), he would have shadow powers, but beyond that. . . ?
Thanks for any input.
Ok, so I am starting to prepare for the climax of a campaign that I have kicked around my brain for 10 years.
The quick gist of the story is (and I know it is rather cliche) the Evil god of darkness and an unwitting mortal conceived a child. The child, following his father in evil, was torn body and soul by crusaders, and scattered across the world. Once the pieces are collected by a cult dedicated to him, he will be reformed and take over the world. . blah, blah, blah.
My question(s) is: at what level would a party be able to fight a demi-god? How would you handle it? How do I figure out stats and powers for the demi-god?
I figured since his father was the god of darkness and his mother was mortal (the wife of a pharaoh), he would have shadow powers, but beyond that. . . ?
Thanks for any input.
A demi-god IIRC has a divine rank of 1-5*. They would probably still have to have be level 20 to remotely stand a chance. If you have access to Age of Worms look at Kyuss. A Divine rank of 1 should be more than enough. If you have access to any Rajah stats from Eberron those are also good to use.
If he is only part mortal/part deity he is really not a demi-god(officially), but you can present him as such. The story is what really matters. He could have a divine rank of 0, meaning he is not a real deity, but he has powers beyond those a mortal should be able to receive. The deities and demigod book has more on this.
*These are under the 3.5 rules.
*These are 3.5 rules.
Ok, so I am starting to prepare for the climax of a campaign that I have kicked around my brain for 10 years.
The quick gist of the story is (and I know it is rather cliche) the Evil god of darkness and an unwitting mortal conceived a child. The child, following his father in evil, was torn body and soul by crusaders, and scattered across the world. Once the pieces are collected by a cult dedicated to him, he will be reformed and take over the world. . blah, blah, blah.
My question(s) is: at what level would a party be able to fight a demi-god? How would you handle it? How do I figure out stats and powers for the demi-god?
I figured since his father was the god of darkness and his mother was mortal (the wife of a pharaoh), he would have shadow powers, but beyond that. . . ?
Thanks for any input.
Hi RaFon,
We released a product for Pathfinder called the Godling. It's a base class that has a capstone power of Demi-god and a whole slew of powers that might help. If you'll send me your email and write a review I'll send you a copy for free.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
hyrum@otherworlds.cx
If he is only part mortal/part deity he is really not a demi-god(officially),
Really?
I thought that part mortal/part deity is exactly what a demigod is. Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, all demigods, all born of a god and a mortal woman.
The dectionary says "demi" means "half", and "demigod" means "half-god".
1. a mythological being who is partly divine and partly human; an inferior deity.
2. a deified mortal.
Yeah, there's a second definition in there that is also valid, but just because "deified mortal" also applies doesn't mean the mortal/god definition stops being valid.
If he is only part mortal/part deity he is really not a demi-god(officially), but you can present him as such. The story is what really matters. He could have a divine rank of 0, meaning he is not a real deity, but he has powers beyond those a mortal should be able to receive.
I wasn't sure on that. Would they still need to be twenty?
This kind of campaigns are only very cool if you can do Epic Things, so level 20 at least.
Hi RaFon,
We released a product for Pathfinder called the Godling. It's a base class that has a capstone power of Demi-god and a whole slew of powers that might help. If you'll send me your email and write a review I'll send you a copy for free.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
hyrum@otherworlds.cx
Thanks...just sent you an e-mail.
Is there a way to "even the odds" a little with the "demi-god", so the pcs have a chance? They will still, probably, have to be dealing with cult members at the same time.
Ok, so I am starting to prepare for the climax of a campaign that I have kicked around my brain for 10 years.
The quick gist of the story is (and I know it is rather cliche) the Evil god of darkness and an unwitting mortal conceived a child. The child, following his father in evil, was torn body and soul by crusaders, and scattered across the world. Once the pieces are collected by a cult dedicated to him, he will be reformed and take over the world. . blah, blah, blah.
My question(s) is: at what level would a party be able to fight a demi-god? How would you handle it? How do I figure out stats and powers for the demi-god?
I figured since his father was the god of darkness and his mother was mortal (the wife of a pharaoh), he would have shadow powers, but beyond that. . . ?
Thanks for any input.
A demi-god IIRC has a divine rank of 1-5*. They would probably still have to have be level 20 to remotely stand a chance. If you have access to Age of Worms look at Kyuss. A Divine rank of 1 should be more than enough. If you have access to any Rajah stats from Eberron those are also good to use.
If he is only part mortal/part deity he is really not a demi-god(officially), but you can present him as such. The story is what really matters. He could have a divine rank of 0, meaning he is not a real deity, but he has powers beyond those a mortal should be able to receive. The deities and demigod book has more on this.
*These are under the 3.5 rules.
*These are 3.5 rules.
I have no idea why I put the 3.5 comments twice. That is why you should not post until you are completely awake.
Is there a way to "even the odds" a little with the "demi-god", so the pcs have a chance? They will still, probably, have to be dealing with cult members at the same time.
I would use a divine rank 0 deity instead of a 1. It makes a difference.
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Is there a way to "even the odds" a little with the "demi-god", so the pcs have a chance? They will still, probably, have to be dealing with cult members at the same time.
In my experience, the most satisfying option is to let them win it 'fairly.' (Even if that requires them to be uber-powerful, or the bad guy to be around demon lord power level, and not 'divine rank' powerful.)
Less satisfying is the PCs winning by using some item specifically built for the job (the 'McGuffin' approach), or, worst of all, awakening some ancient foe of the BBEG and sitting back with popcorn watching the NPC win the day.
Ways to make such a combat more or less funky;
1) He's got a bunch of followers in the room. As long as they worship him, he's got more power. At one extreme, they might have to be chanting to give him this power, and attacks to disrupt their little pray-and-slay could weaken him and make him vulnerable. Or perhaps they need to flat out die to stop empowering him, making it a desperate holding action to survive / endure / counter his attacks, while killing off all of the followers present, to weaken his defenses enough that a counterstrike is viable.
2) He's got a bunch of followers in the room. As long as they live, his power is divided up, granting them divine bonuses and whatnot (as they are clerics, blackguards, whatever). As each one dies, he gets a 'pick me up' of refreshed hit points, etc. The party has to try and kill him *without* killing his followers, complicated by the fact that he might turn around and smite a follower if he's getting low on hit points. A small percentage of his followers might even be insanely devoted enough to kill themselves to give him a refresher, but, being selfish and evil people, not many of them, and once he starts smiting his followers for power, a fair number of them will say, 'screw this noise!' and bolt.
3) He's tapped into some source of power that is keeping him together and allowing him to build up his strength. At the time he's encountered, he still can't safely leave that power center, but the longer the PCs dally, the closer to being at full power he gets, and they should have a hint that once he gets to full power, and reclaims his divinity, he's not going to be beat-able.
4) Whatever force rent him asunder in ye olden days has left him vulnerable to 'going all to pieces.' A critical hit had a chance of knocking a chunk off of him, costing him a certain power or type of power (damage to a leg might cost him movement abilities, damage to an arm might lower his reach or ability to smite, damage to a sensory organ might take away his permanant sense X powers, etc.). He wouldn't necessary fall over if a leg is cleaved off, but he would lose that annoying shadow-jump-every-round power he's been using to avoid full attacks and 'shadow pounce' the party. He'd still be standing, but on a leg of swirling shadow, while his physical limb is lying on the ground (and will require an action to re-attach, possibly not being worth it, depending on how many attacks of opportunity he'll provoke in the procress).
5) He's being held together and refreshed by shadow, and while he may not be vulnerable to 'falling to pieces' as above, it's possible that spells like Sunray could make him so vulnerable, by tearing at the shadowy forces that are rebuilding him.
6) As above, but he's changed the odds by causing an eclipse, to 'strengthen the power of shadow.' The party has to put a stop to the eclipse first, and then storm his temple. If someone can destroy the roof of the temple, the rays of the sun will render him vulnerable to re-disconbobulation.
Now that I've been thinking about it. . . .
The cult members will be trying to gather the "pieces" of the demi-god (or whatever he is), but the pcs will also, undoubtedly, get some as well. Seeing as how my campaign climax rests on the fact that the god is brought back to life, I know I will have to railroad the pcs.
Any advice on how to do that with out it seeming overly obvious?
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Now that I've been thinking about it. . . .
The cult members will be trying to gather the "pieces" of the demi-god (or whatever he is), but the pcs will also, undoubtedly, get some as well. Seeing as how my campaign climax rests on the fact that the god is brought back to life, I know I will have to railroad the pcs.
Any advice on how to do that with out it seeming overly obvious?
Have the person they're collecting the pieces for be a traitor. Make sure he's around in the final conforntation as the PCs will want to tear him into little itty bits. He teleports out with the bits, the PCs suddenly have to find out where the ritual is. Fortunately his office has clues, or they found clues earlier in the campaign.
Is there a way to "even the odds" a little with the "demi-god", so the pcs have a chance? They will still, probably, have to be dealing with cult members at the same time.I would use a divine rank 0 deity instead of a 1. It makes a difference.
Yes, someone with divine rank 0 is considered a demi-god. Like hercules.
You can be level 1 and have divine rank 0, technically. For making him a challenge, just make him an otherwise epic challenge (APL+3) on top of giving him some divine powers as a rank 0 demigod.
Yes, someone with divine rank 0 is considered a demi-god. Like hercules.
You can be level 1 and have divine rank 0, technically. For making him a challenge, just make him an otherwise epic challenge (APL+3) on top of giving him some divine powers as a rank 0 demigod.
+1
So it can happen at whatever level you want really. If you're running a Conan-like world, characters are going to be at the top of the world by 10th level. I would figure what you want the player to accomplish on the way to defeating this "demi-god", what kinds of hench-men/beings would be 'mooks' and 'mook generals' for this being... And maybe if they can take on this demi-god before he is fully formed, the demi-god themself won't be the #1 most powerful, but will be augmented by allied forces... If you want the full 'shock and awe' treatment, give the PCs some allies to even out the APL:CR.I think Oracle would be a great class to build this NPC on, as it exemplifies one domain, e.g. one of their father's portfolio that they are a lesser examplar of.
Now that I've been thinking about it. . . .
The cult members will be trying to gather the "pieces" of the demi-god (or whatever he is), but the pcs will also, undoubtedly, get some as well. Seeing as how my campaign climax rests on the fact that the god is brought back to life, I know I will have to railroad the pcs.
Any advice on how to do that with out it seeming overly obvious?
Say that having all the pieces isn't nessesary, then have the evil cult find the majority of the pieces. Once the ceremony starts all the pieces collected by the PC's teleport to the main body and slot into place.
Yeah, having all the pieces shouldn't be necessary for this son-of-a-gun demi-god to EXIST, it's just DESIRABLE for him to have all his pieces. If, say, a MAJORITY of him is assembled, then he comes into being, it just depends on how many pieces the PCs have themselves that determines what level threat they are meeting him at - obviously, he will be matched to their APL, but you can scare your PCs with how much more powerful the guy will be if he just has one more piece... and then steal one more piece from them :-)
Yeah, having all the pieces shouldn't be necessary for this son-of-a-gun demi-god to EXIST, it's just DESIRABLE for him to have all his pieces. If, say, a MAJORITY of him is assembled, then he comes into being, it just depends on how many pieces the PCs have themselves that determines what level threat they are meeting him at - obviously, he will be matched to their APL, but you can scare your PCs with how much more powerful the guy will be if he just has one more piece... and then steal one more piece from them :-)
+1
I'd go even further than this (which is still spiffy, as it gives you the ability to work with the numbers to make it a fight the party can win -- it's weaker because it's lacking its whole self) -- and make use of the old-style "Laws of Magic" (specifically, in this case, the Law of Sympathy) so that any pieces of the godling the party has can be used against him.
My question(s) is: at what level would a party be able to fight a demi-god? How would you handle it? How do I figure out stats and powers for the demi-god?
Let's see - many of the stronger demi-gods can challenge me in power, so CR 40 at the very least!
But the simplest answer is: "What you decide"
The "official" rankings for divine beings doesn't seem too clear in Pathfinder books (I think Iomedae and the other Starstone ascenders were called demi-god somewhere - but they're considered in the True Deity region, the power level where entities aren't assigned stats - a mortal simply cannot harm them). It seems that the near-godlike entities (like the strongest outsiders that aren't yet gods in their own right) have a CR of around 32.
Achaekek the Mantis God has CR 30 (though he's actually a god-beast)
You could use the divine rules form Deities and Demigods and assign him a low divine rank (there are quasi-deities with divine rank 0, and demigods have 1-5), or wing it.
Since this is your campaign, he has the power level you want/need him to be - though I personally wouldn't create him with a CR of 20 or less.
Look at said divine rules in Deities and Demigods or on [ulr=http://www.d20srd.org/]d20srd.org[/url] and maybe on Achaekek's stats from Pathfinder #09 for inspiration.
I'm with the part where he doesn't have to be so powerful, nor have all his pieces. Remember Imhotep at "the Mummy" Movie? Why not something like that, once the cult get the heart and the spine for instance they could revive him. With that some of his powers are there.
Also, bear in mind that he is a "half-human" so, I would go with some class levels that he atainned IN LIFE, all else is raw power (divine rank, caster levels, spell like, Spell-resistance and such) So, he could be a low level character but with some nasty RAW power that he may not be able to control fully until he attains all of his parts.
That is the way I'd go, and the pcs may not know what those parts are, since they turned to obsidian or something sinister. There are several ways of doing this, but I would go with a guy that has low level (low HD) but extremelly high raw power. And the fact that he needs more parts is also very cool.
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Along the lines of Xum, I would not worry so much about making him demi-god ability wise, but of a CR appropriate to the PCs. By CR appropriate in this case I am thinking like +5 :) at least.
I might also throw in some cool templates from Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin. Maybe, just for example, Barbarian 18/ Dread Mummy Template (son of a Pharoah's wife after all)/ Nightmare Creature Template (can invade dreams and kill in the dream like Freddy!) for a total of CR 22-ish... throw in some random god-like powers from Deities and Demigods that he has yet to fully master and the guy is probably around CR 25-ish. Still a tough fight but different and nasty and unpredictable.
Also, might throw in that he has to be destroyed in a specific manner (like a major artifact) otherwise he will just come back again some day. Find that weakness he has and you can neutralize some of the deity powers, he'd still be a tough fight.
And definitely throw in minions, mooks, servants, and pets! The final battle should be a series of rolling battles that bring the party to the brink of disaster before they can recharge. Make it memorable! :)
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Hi RaFon,
We released a product for Pathfinder called the Godling. It's a base class that has a capstone power of Demi-god and a whole slew of powers that might help. If you'll send me your email and write a review I'll send you a copy for free.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
hyrum@otherworlds.cx
*raises han-, uh.. claw*
Question: Why did you make a "Godling" class?Q2: What inspired you to do so?
Q3: Can I also send an email and write a reveiw? This sounds very interesting.
Question: Why did you make a "Godling" class?
Because we thought the game needed a demi-god/Greek hero base class.
Q2: What inspired you to do so?
See above, plus Clash of the Titans.
Q3: Can I also send an email and write a reveiw? This sounds very interesting.
You bet! Same address above.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
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Question: Why did you make a "Godling" class?Because we thought the game needed a demi-god/Greek hero base class.
Q2: What inspired you to do so?See above, plus Clash of the Titans.
Q3: Can I also send an email and write a reveiw? This sounds very interesting.You bet! Same address above.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
Ooooh, Clash of the Titans! A great source of inspiration!
Email sent.