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This is what I suggest: If the player successfully makes the Perform check, the little doll begins to sing as if reliving her glory days on the stage of the opera. It moves from behind the organ into full view, perhaps levitating atop the contraption. As long as the PC maintains the performance, the doll will sing. If the music is interrupted the doll throws a fit and slaps the PC with the inflict serious wounds. The damage it can do with that attack will alarm most PCs who have no way of knowing that it's a 1/day ability. The encounter is mostly to up the creep-factor. This was the first appearance of a soulbound doll in a PFS scenario, so most players couldn't metagame its limited offensive capabilities. Don't worry about this encounter challenging the party, just mess with them as much as you can get away with and then let them have their revenge .
Again, this is a suggestion. As long as the PC keeps playing the organ or otherwise musically accompanying the doll it will remain passive, just singing it's little non-heart out. If the PCs figure out that the doll came out of one of the cases spilled on the floor, they could try to trap it back inside with a combat maneuver.
I've just been through this as a player. Here's how the memorable enounters went.
Opinion: The paladin needed a little convincing, but my bard explained that we (pathfinders) are only breaking into our own house (a pathfinder lodge) to displace some squatters. Once it was put that way, he was fine with it. The encounter itself was about what you'd expect, and provided some useful tanglefoot bags for later.
Opinion: The blood on the organ spooked my bard enough to not even go near the thing. Also, perform(keyboard) isn't her bit. I have no opinion on the inflict spell, because in our game the Diva couldn't get it off, and once it was gone, she was out of spells and could do little.
There was a scroll of tongues in the desk that we used to converse with the two dark creatures. They really didn't have any useful information. We did warn them that we believed that it's possible the machine might explode if tampered with, but they chose to stick around anyway.
My bard was the only character with disable device, but it's not her main schtick. Even with a really good roll, the DC25 check only shut the machine off. I was hoping to simply turn it down to "normal" sunrod strength. Afterwards it was easy to switch the sphere (faction mission) for the one we were given. Of course, the two dark critters elected to attack, but since they were in the other room, they were dispatched before the bard was done messing with the prototype.
For all we knew at the time, this might not be the final boss. With no attempt at dialoge, the other figure in the room (who was also not described to us) casts his deeper darkness. The paladin's halo stops working, my bard's dancing lights fail, etc. Holy Carp !
Since you can speak out of turn, a quick consensus was that we must fall back or be defeated piecemeal. A complication is you must move at half speed when blind or risk a fall, but we all made it out of the room and shut the door. We began examining our resources for anything that might help us as well as making spellcraft/knowledge arcana checks to realize that the spell was deeper darkness as well as how long it was likely to last.
At this point the GM pipes up with "You don't think the man strapped to the device has long to live without intervention." We responded with "Wait a minute, you said there's a BODY strapped to the device. We took that to mean DEAD BODY." Now the Paladin insists we must attempt a rescue.
I wanted to go get the prototype from upstairs, get it working again, dismantle it, bring it down, reassemble it on a boat and float it over here, but that was vetoed because we'd been given the impression that it would be next to impossible to even get it functioning again. This made us disinclined to even attempt to get the machine in THIS room functioning as we were completely unsure given our fleeting glimpse of it that it was even intact.
We settled on having everyone delay until the worst initiative and then moving in formation to the machine, grabbing whoever was on it (we weren't even sure who it was) and then retreating. When we first opened the doors, light functioned normally until the BBG's turn when he put up DD again (rats, we were hoping it was limited).
We managed it only because the cleric was channeling, my bard was casting heal on whoever sung out "I'm hit", the paladin laying on hands and the GM was forgetting about the extra sneak attack damage. We never did twig to the fact that he's using lunge to attack from two squares away, what with everyone attacking the darkness.
As we bundled the unconcious but still living target of the rescue mission into a gondola, the problem is now that we won't all fit in the boats, to wich the GM sings out "Oh, but you can if you treat him as cargo (i.e. he lays in the bottom of the boat). Our response "Why didn't you tell us that earlier when we were trying to use fewer boats !?" The strength damaged Tengu ninja and the useless evoker begin paddling madly with the rescue-e.
Meanwhile, the two strongest party members are trying to hold the doors while the BBG is trying to force them open. Whenever he temorarily gets one open a bit, a motley collection of alchemists fire, tanglefoot bags, etc. are hurled until the third strongest member of the party throws himself against the door to reclose it.
After a few rounds of this, a round goes by with no attempt by the BBG to open the door. After a brief whispered conference we break for the boats and never look back.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I've run this one twice at the lower sub-tier and think it's a really fun, flavourful adventure that would be perfect for around Hallowe'en. It is potentially deadly.Notwithstanding JJ Frost's comment earlier about the Diva's ILS being once per day, it can still easily take a first level character from full HP to negative con in one go. That's fine - just not for someone playing PFS for the first time :)
Likewise, the final encounter can be dealt with despite the deeper darkness - I do wonder if a humanoid chain would work - but it is challenging.
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Not a good mod for a party of level ones....also not a good mod to intro people to pathfinder. It is confusing and has fights that require one specific type of attack. Definitely not what I not what I expected from a Pathfinder mod....it sort of reminded me of the mods we hated in LG.
This is not a mod to play on the low end of the tiers at all...personally the end of this mod needs to be looked at for level 1s
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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It's a good idea to read the spoiler thread and especially the reviews before running anything. Your experiences Slamy have been written many times.
Indeed. And I still say that, run properly, this scenario is an excellent scenario. If the GM is doing his job properly, no scenario is as bad as what you described, Slamy. Part of that job is reading the GM advice threads and the reviews.
Likewise, the final encounter can be dealt with despite the deeper darkness [..]
Don't forget the exploding bad guy, too...
:-/
I am about to run this scenario and as I was reading, each faction mission has two objects to complete. So is there a possibility of getting 3 prestige award? 1 for the scenario and 2 for the faction missions.
And what do I get for running? Do I get all 3 prestige award?
I reread the prestige in the guide and I understand now, thanks.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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So I just ran this at the 4-5 tier, and all the fights were ridiculously easy up until the final fight with Zoathrias. That one was comfortably difficult, right up until the lights from the machine came back on. I decided that Zoathrias would use his elemental gem to back him up when he didn't have the benefit of deeper darkness.
BIG MISTAKE!
A CR 5 large earth elemental is way too tough for a tier 4-5 party that's already been devastated by darkness and sneak attacks. I could have easily dropped 1 PC every round, but I declined to use power attack, and had the gem end after just 3 rounds. The party was just barely able to bounce back after that.
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I have yet to run this but finally played it yesterday; we were on low tier. It does seem like it would indeed be a party-killer for most.
In the final encounter we lucked out with a full five rounds from a timely pyrotechnics SLA on an alchemist's bomb, thereby negating precision damage within the cloud, and decided that evacuating the room while carrying Miregrold and slamming and jamming the door shut was better than facing Zoathrias in his native element even though we had been lucky enough to land 12 points on him. It seemed like a chancy think at best!
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The scenario requests the Diva to cast a suggestion scroll to force a character to play the piano for her.
For me the suggestion spell by itself is not clear about what happens when the combat breaks out, so I opened the following discussion in the rules forum.
Just in case anyone comes to same doubt, I came up with thinking the suggestion does not dominates the target will, so he can still react and take decisions.
Compared with the hold person spell (same level), it is clear the suggestion cannot prevent the target from taking actions without even a save check. Thus I finally think the better course of action is to:
1) Allow the target to defend when attacked by the Diva
2) If combat breaks out between the doll and the target's party, allow the character under the suggestion to act normally after the doll first harms an ally (if she inspires courage, charms, etc... the character shall continue playing)
3) Once the combat is done, the character continues playing the piano until the end of the spell's duration. If properly persuaded that continuing to play is not a good suggestion, with good RP and diplomacy/intimidate/bluff checks, I would also suggest to allow a new Will save.
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The suggestion was to play a somber dirge on the organ. If the PC fails the save, he or she attempts to play a 'dirge'. The diva gets upset and attacks if the PC performs poorly. The suggestion has been fulfilled. The diva doesn't designate how long the dirge must be. After the suggested action is complete, the target may act freely. Roll initiative :)
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I also don't know what to thing about that.
Is the perform check to be done only once and then stop? Or is the character under suggestion to keep performing each round until he fails and the doll attacks him.
The scenario fails to provide any advise on what happens if there is no fail at all, or the suggestion spell fails. Does the doll try to convince them to play through other means, does she get aggressive? Why?
What if let's say a bard with a +10 perform starts performing, he can keep there fulfilling the doll desires until he gets tired of it.
I somehow feel the scenario should have provided some opportunity for the encounter to end with good perform and RP and not just killing the doll in one way or another.
Does the doll even try to follow them if they go out of the room?
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I have run it seven times, and it's much ado about nothing most of those times*. On occasions that the PC succeeds on the Perform check the diva stands on top of the organ crooning along with the instrument until the song is over. Then I have her reminisce about the 'good ole days' at the opera and, if treated politely, eventually lose interest in the PCs. It doesn't need to be a combat encounter unless the PCs trigger it.
When the scenario doesn't cover those corner cases, use your judgment as the GM to improvise something. You can create some unique memories for players in these situations. Imagine if the bard and the diva hit it off and make a deal to take the act on the road after the mission is over.
*I did slap an inflict serious on a 1st level PC once and he failed his save against pretty hefty damage--dead right there. I was able to pull a Faction shirt out of my bag and he succeeded, sparing me from a lot of guilt! The other six times the diva doesn't have much firepower after delivering the inflict.
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Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas
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I know, I feel guilty when I hurt the PCs too.
I suspect it is the nature of it being a save or die for low level PCs. I know I was ... nervous ... when I ran this scenario, a while back. Managed to roll crappy on the d8s, though. I think I did 7 whole points before the Will save.
3d8+3 is a potentially nasty amount of damage. Average is still 16.5 points of damage, if the save is failed, and, if the d8s are "lucky", it caps at 27 points of damage. That is enough to get most builds, other than the anti-Ledford builds.
On the "up" side, she is tiny, so has to enter the PC's square to use the effect on him. She is bright enough, though, to either pre-cast it, or cast defensively. Her AC is nothing spectacular, but between her DR and her HP, she will probably still be able to deliver that touch. On the one hand, her melee touch to hit is only +1, but it is a held spell, so she can try until she gets destroyed, or she hits.
Her tactics, at least at sub-tier 1-2, don't make a lot of sense, since she only has a one-shot ranged attack, and then she is just a hovering target for the PCs.
Also, given a knowledgeable player, or someone wearing a Take 10 T-shirt, since she targets the PC with the highest Charisma, and there is nothing that appears to be preventing it, the PC could take 10 on the perform check, and, unless the highest Charisma is a 9 (ugh!), automatically succeed at playing the dirge....
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Also, given a knowledgeable player, or someone wearing a Take 10 T-shirt, since she targets the PC with the highest Charisma, and there is nothing that appears to be preventing it, the PC could take 10 on the perform check, and, unless the highest Charisma is a 9 (ugh!), automatically succeed at playing the dirge....
But players don't know the DC is 10.
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The end scenario is brutal on level 1-3s. We barely got out with our characters alive. The GM began with the room dark as we had made some noise, and our group did not understand the letter in the prototype room. BTW, dealing with darkness: Unwelcome halo. My 2nd level wizard now has an oil of that ready to go.
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Lesson learned on the lack of an edit feature :(
Well I ran this with a Level 3 Bard Archeologist, Level 2 Conjurer, Level 2 Druid and Level 1 Amiri (pregen). The First encounter with the thugs was a piece of cake. The group caught on that they were not the true occupants of the house early but devised their own plan to subdue the thugs and question them.
The trap on the stairs was subverted with a perfectly timed natural 20 on the perception check.
The Soulbound Doll was not all that difficult, in fact after a failed suggestion attempt the bard decided to play a somber dirge anyway causing the Doll to begin dancing much to the surprise of the rest of the group. The conjurer finished it off with a magic missile and the bard finished the dirge off with a nice happy ending.
The Dark Creeper in the library could have gone much worse had the group not all retreated to the work room and took the time to search the place over and read as many notes as they could. The Dark Creeper retreated to the well room to set an ambush that the Barbarian didn't fall for and immediately turned the creature into a puff of light and a pile of rags.
We had to skip the bat encounter as we were already 3.5 hours into the scenario so onto the big bad Dark Stalker. Being that there were only 3 players and the pregen i decided to give them 1 full round to see the room before the Stalker appeared began initiative. The encounter was made MUCH easier since the druids pet could track by scent allowing them to pinpoint the location easier with successful Perception checks. The 50% miss chance still proved to be tough but between a round spent knocking Amiri unconscious and two rounds getting tripped by the druids pet, the Bard and Druid and pet finally defeated the Stalker. I believe the whole fight went 6 maybe 7 rounds. A first round cure light wounds on Skeldon gave the group a small breather with regards to his lifespan.
The poison, while not devastating took its toll. Everyone but the Druid fell victim to at least 1 dose of the poison. Amiri was healed a few hp before death. She took a double hit for 23 damage total. That was the only round the Stalker got a full attack action..
The 50% miss chance still proved to be tough but between a round spent knocking Amiri unconscious and two rounds getting tripped by the druids pet, the Bard and Druid and pet finally defeated the Stalker.
Did anyone get hurt by the Dark Stalker's explosion when he went down?
Letting the party have at least one round without Deeper Darkness up was nice.
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Yeah the Druid, her companion and the Bard were in the blast radius. The conjurer (player) knew what was going to happen but didn't say anything so he wouldn't metagame (he didn't get high enough on a knowledge check to know dark stalkers explode anything different than Dark Creepers). I rolled the damage out in the open and got 7! I couldn't believe their luck. Save for half i think the Bard was the only one to take full damage.
I know i took some liberties with the encounter but with only 3 players and me running a pregen to make a minimum size i felt it wouldn't be overly unbalancing. If things had gone super bad I was going to have the Stalker render everyone unconscious, take the aeurolyte crystal, let Skeldon die and leave. The PC's would eventually stabilize (hopefully) but Skeldon would be dead and they would only take the prestige hit instead of having to do resurrections...
As a very welcome twist though, the PC's did a great job role playing and came up with some great ideas. I must say from reading the reviews and then going in depth with the scenario i was expecting someone to die. It just goes to show that the players can do wonders when given a chance :)
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Did anyone get hurt by the Dark Stalker's explosion when he went down?
Note the text says they explode when they are "slain" not on just going unconscious. At lower tier it is rare this will happen unless he gets an exceptional blow being already low on hp.
My GM did not take that consideration into account and some of us saw the death counter quite close to us.
I think scenarios should have notes like that on uncommon powers that can easily defeat a player unexpectedly, as not every GM is that experienced to distinguish certain concepts, and those who are not always have the time to carefully read everything.
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Note the text says they explode when they are "slain" not on just going unconscious. At lower tier it is rare this will happen unless he gets an exceptional blow being already low on hp.
My GM did not take that consideration into account and some of us saw the death counter quite close to us.
I think scenarios should have notes like that on uncommon powers that can easily defeat a player unexpectedly, as not every GM is that experienced to distinguish certain concepts, and those who are not always have the time to carefully read everything.
I believe the Druids animal companion brought the Dark Stalker to 0hp and since it was still dark nobody knew that the creature was staggered. The next attack did more than his measly 10 constitution... but yeah I completely agree things like that should be pointed out.
I just noticed a huge problem in the stat block that has not been discussed here in the GM thread. On page 12, as the tactic for the dark creepers at both tiers, it says:
The dark creepers use Detect Magic to determine which character is the greatest threat
However, by the rules, Detect Magic requires 3 rounds of concentration to get results. This is mind-bogglingly wrong to me, that an enemy would literally initiate combat and then go into what is effectively a trance while the PCs surround and murder him.
One thing I've had beaten into my brain over & over again is that I am a total jerk of a GM if I deviate from the module in Pathfinder Society games. So, having to run the module as-is without veering away from the rules text, it appears that the encounter has always been intended as nothing more than a foreshadowing of things to come, but actually presents zero challenge to the PCs at all. The monster just casts Darkness, we go into initiative, and then after the monster does 3 rounds of nothing, he gets to act, but he's dead by that point.
Can Mark or yoda8myhead explain if that was in fact the intended "thing" for this encounter? It was just a monster that gets beaten and explodes as a way to hint to the players that there may be more to come?
If that is not the intention, then how do I get around that as a GM in Pathfinder Society, where I cannot change what's written?
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Is there any more to the tactics there? Put it in context.
Easiest way is to have them hidden and spying on the players before combat starts.
You are not bound to the letter of the tactics, only the spirit. The RPG Guide makes it clear you are allowed to adjust tactics when they are invalidated by player actions (pg 34). Above all make it enjoyable for the players.
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You only need two rounds to get number and strength of auras, which is all that's needed for the tactics.
If the PCs counter the darkness or show they have darkvision and are still threats, I would say that he would stop using the spell and begin attacking.
As for why the tactics are like that in the first place, my read of the situation is that this is an early season scenario (and a low level one at that), so the assumption was that people would not be carrying darkness counters, as the "meta-game" was still young, so the creatures are using less optimal tactics.
Building off that, my guess is that the intent behind the detect magic was for the creeper(s) to go after the highest level character (as they would likely have the most magic items) to decrease the likelihood of them just ganking a lowbie.
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You only need two rounds to get number and strength of auras, which is all that's needed for the tactics.
But if he doesn't know which PC has the strongest aura, how does that help him to achieve the goal in the tactics listing? He has to wait until 3rd round to know who has the strongest aura.
In any case, thanks guys. This makes much more sense. The idea was, I think:
- He casts Darkness and expects them to bumble around.
- He casts Detect Magic and expects them to not see him for 3 rounds.
- He then goes in and goes hard for the biggest threat.
So it appears that the PCs can "invalidate" his tactics if they are not bumbling around and do manage to hit him. In that case, I guess the little bad guy thinks "Oops" and fights back. That's much more sensible. Thanks.
That brings me to another "Am I allowed to change this?" question. The doll on page 10 has this in her tactics:
The Diva attempts to distract PCs with ghost sound or ventriloquism as they explore the room.
Problem: casting spells requires that you speak in a strong, firm voice. That is from these two rules quotes:
To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
To cast a spell with a verbal (V) component, your character must speak in a firm voice.
So how does casting these spells do *anything* but alert the PCs to her location? The DC to hear someone casting is a 0 or a -2 or so, with some modifiers for distance (but that won't alter the DC much -- maybe it's a DC of 3 for the PCs). Casting WILL cause them to know she's there and even more than that, to be able to Spellcraft what she's doing, and to know that "something by the piano/organ just cast a spell, and it caused noise to appear near us."
You know? How dumb is that? There doesn't seem to be a rule in the rulebook for, "Monsters tactics are invalidated because dumbness."
Can I legally switch her to using Mage Hand? That's a spell-like for her, which has no verbal or somatic components. She can do that without moving, and knock over something across the room in order to actually carry out her plan of distracting the PCs.
Or am I stuck with her casting a (useless distraction) spell so that she can cast a spell (that she should have just cast in the first place)?
Thank you so much! I missed the text about IF she heard the shrieker thing. It makes so much more sense! She only does it if they're not yet through the door. Excellent!
My game will run so much better thanks to you. Much appreciated.
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Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas
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Also remember that concentration does not preclude taking a move action, so they can cast darkness on a piece of equipment or a pebble, cast detect magic, then continue to move around, keeping the cone focused in a specific direction.
In very low tier, it is entirely possible to get a "No magic at all" reading...
Question: if the assault on Miregrolds lodge happened 6 days ago, how is the sunrod device still radiating light?
The intro on page 3 says the attack was 6 days ago, and the device box text on page 13 says the effect only lasts as long as a sunrod (6 hours).
Seems like the dark creeper should be fine, as the light effect should be gone.
Also, the diva doll is too low level to cast the suggestion scroll. Have other GM's been using caster level checks?
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Sunrods: I believe the device is not on its normal effect but overloaded. The sunrods are supposed to be already consumed, so understanding the puzzle is more complicated than just looking at the current sunrods.
Suggestion scroll: I use caster checks. If you are playing in a more relaxed environment with not rule picky friends I suggest you just go on and suggest one of the characters is compelled to play. It is just the greatest RP moment of the scenario, it would be a great pity to lose it.
Sunrods: I believe the device is not on its normal effect but overloaded. The sunrods are supposed to be already consumed, so understanding the puzzle is more complicated than just looking at the current sunrods.
Since the sunrods power the device, if they are consumed, the device should be non-functional, and the dark creeper who is freaking out about the light will not be freaking out.
In any case, I noticed conflicting details -- the assault happened 6 days ago, yet 2 places mention fresh wet blood. I think the module author got some details jumbled, or omitted some text that would explain how a fight lasted 6 days or had delays that caused fresh kills nearly a week after the fight took place. My final decision to have it be sensible was just that the fight really was recent enough to leave the fresh blood as described.
(Besides, if the dark stalker has been torturing Skeldon for all 6 days, he would need enough Cure Light Wounds potions to heal 86,400 hit points in damage, in order to keep Skeldon alive. That's 17280 potions on average. It felt better & more sensible to set the timing of the assault so that the "fresh wet blood" was actually fresh & wet. And then only a few dozen potions of CLW might be needed. I figure the torture lasted a day tops, though the dark stalker probably would have loved to keep it going endlessly.)
So the sunrods were also "fresh" in my game. It seemed to work out OK.
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You are right, after re-reading it seems clear the effect only last as long as the sunrods.
Unfortunately scenarios usually have issues when trying to carefully check the timing of things. I guess that is the price for having closed scenarios triggered by events (PCs arrival) rather than timing.
I would say the attack was just the night before. But that will make the thugs charade less feasible.
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Sorry about necro, but i'd like to add something.
I'm in act 1, with a 4 team of lvl 4.
The thugs in the manor.
They rolled lower sense motive than the bluff of the 'pathfinders'.
Those guys are said to try and murder them in their sleep.
With them not passing perception checks vs stealth...1 is already certain, but i'm looking at potentially 3 successful murders right now.
The Barb who woke up, will slaughter them for this, as she should.
My words for this mission in this act:
Do hint, if your PCs don't do by themselves, that a watch is -a good thing-, even if not with those words.