Hey there, in the campaign i'm running I deal with goblins a lot. So much in fact that the players are currently being employed by the leader of a goblin city (I know this is unusual, but that's due to the leader being a dragon, the city also contains a lot of members of various other races) and now there are two questions ive been wondering about.
The first question is, do goblins and other goblinoids grow hair? (aside from bugbear body hair) And if so to what extend? Can they grow beards and/or mustaches? On their heads or just on the back of their heads (some goblins in the Wayne Reynolds illustrations have braids hanging from the backs of their heads)?
The second question is a more complicated problem, how could a dwarf make himself popular or at least not hated in a city inhabited by mostly goblins, especially if said dwarf is a dog owner? I've been thinking for a while now what to offer him to do but I couldnt really think of anything impressive enough to overcome a generations long racial grudge, especially if you are just a level 4 ranger.
There is one thing he has in common with goblins though: he hates dwarves too.
Creative Director
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I don't believe we've ever illustrated a goblin with facial hair, so I'm tempted to say that they can't grow facial hair. They do grow hair on their heads, though, sometimes (as in, I THINK we've illustrated a hairy-headed goblin before). But most goblins are relatively hairless.
As for a dwarf in a goblin city... he'd better be a tough dwarf. If he survives every attempt by the goblins to kill him and doesn't try to annoy or kill the goblins in return, and maybe if he shaved his head and beard and acted crazy like a goblin, MAYBE the goblins would eventually accept him.
Although I suspect that a city of goblins wouldn't last long unless they were serving a hobgoblin ruling class, because that many goblins together in one place would devolve into dozens or hundreds of bickering small tribes pretty quickly.
Thanks for that, I was just wondering if it would make sense to have the old barkeep at the market place around the dragon's "palace" (a pompous cave in the center), who is also a high level monk, wear a long goatee.
There are hobgoblins in a lot of ruling positions (especially military and city guard). Priests of Venkelvore, Zogmugot, Zarongel and Hadregash as well as the aforementioned supreme leader, a Black dragon keep the goblins at bay, mostly by fear. Kobolds (who assembled around the dragon to worship him) do most of the administrative duties. So despite being mostly composed of goblins the city has a strict hierarchy and organisation.
I thought maybe i could put up a dwarf invasion against the goblin city in which the dwarf player could defend an important position (especially to the goblin portion of the population), thus making him a lot more likable and maybe earning him the title Dwarfslayer. I mean if you took the thought "Only a dead dwarf is a good dwarf." further logically, you would come to "The only dwarf even better than a dead dwarf, is a dwarf that kills even more dwarves."
I imagine Pathfinder goblins kind of like a bunch of feral talking chimpanzees who were raised by The Three Stooges. The idea of a goatee-wearing goblin monk barkeep just doesn't "click" with the Moronic Evil alignment Paizo has created for them, I think.
That all being said, your environment sounds fun, so I'd just wing it and run what you want to run. It's just not going to fit with most canonical portrayals of goblins.
I imagine Pathfinder goblins kind of like a bunch of feral talking chimpanzees who were raised by The Three Stooges. The idea of a goatee-wearing goblin monk barkeep just doesn't "click" with the Moronic Evil alignment Paizo has created for them, I think.
That all being said, your environment sounds fun, so I'd just wing it and run what you want to run. It's just not going to fit with most canonical portrayals of goblins.
Well its not actually set in Golarion, I just like the Goblins created for it a lot (The fascination for fire, the affinity for wolves while disliking dogs, dislike for horses, the appetite, they are basically like me just more extreme, and on top of that i've always been a goblin enthusiast) so I wanted to take them over as true as possible to the golarian example.
As for this one being a monk, there can always be a few individuals who simply aren't like the rest of their race.
Mr. Fishy said "Goblin so crazy, he go sane and grow beard." Could be a disguise he could be dodging his ex-wife.
As for the goblins are "Moronic Evil" Mr. Fishy says stupid and crazy are to different things. Also drow are ALL evil but there was that one guy what was his name??? Bob the Two fisted rape machine...Goblins
are not cookie cutter creatures anymore than humans or dwarves or albino goblins (Halfings). As for the Goblins not hating the dwarf ummm... kill a few as an example? Individual goblins may come to respect/fear him, but as a group, that's hard to justify. Hate runs deep. Good Luck though sounds pretty interesting.
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The only way I can think of to keep this traitor alive is for the Black Dragon king to make it known to the entire city that the dwarf has his blessings. For the most part, fear of the dragon will keep most goblins from making any attempts upon the traitorous dwarf's life. A few will regardless, either not realizing that he is THAT dwarf, or just hating the traitorous dwarf regardless.
Regardless it won't matter. REAL dwarves have been dispatched to eliminate this degenerate accident of our blood.
Yeah I think I'm going t do the thing with the dwarf invasion, and let him defend an important spot and then let the party go on a counter attack mission.
I don't believe we've ever illustrated a goblin with facial hair, so I'm tempted to say that they can't grow facial hair. They do grow hair on their heads, though, sometimes (as in, I THINK we've illustrated a hairy-headed goblin before). But most goblins are relatively hairless.
As for a dwarf in a goblin city... he'd better be a tough dwarf. If he survives every attempt by the goblins to kill him and doesn't try to annoy or kill the goblins in return, and maybe if he shaved his head and beard and acted crazy like a goblin, MAYBE the goblins would eventually accept him.
Although I suspect that a city of goblins wouldn't last long unless they were serving a hobgoblin ruling class, because that many goblins together in one place would devolve into dozens or hundreds of bickering small tribes pretty quickly.
tough dwarf? tough dwarf? is there any other kind!
As a long time dwarf player I am offended by this answer! LMAO!
The second question is a more complicated problem, how could a dwarf make himself popular or at least not hated in a city inhabited by mostly goblins, especially if said dwarf is a dog owner?
- He makes and sells fireworks.
- He runs a bar with an arena in the center where captured dwarves/victims are forced to fight each other or local champions.- At the end of the evening or on goblin holidays, the arena is used to light said fireworks and have gigantic bonfires.
In short he throws the best goblin parties around.
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tough dwarf? tough dwarf? is there any other kind!As a long time dwarf player I am offended by this answer! LMAO!
All kinds of sissy dwarves! Ya know, the ones that hide in big tin cans, are so scared of blades they dont shave, and are so terrified of facing their futures that they drown worries in ale... :P
REAL dwarves shave, and run around naked... just like goblins.
I don't shave, but I run around naked... want to see the pictures of my infamous naked rendition of the Dwarven Beard Dance? ;P
It's not that goblins can't grow facial hair, it's that their fascination with fire leads to them burning it all off.
Asking for a "goblin shave" is giving your hair stylist permission to cast burning hands right in your face.
You don't want to ask for a "goblin kiss".
Mr Fishy agrees with the horse, killing a few is a great tool for peace the dead don't back talk.
The second question is a more complicated problem, how could a dwarf make himself popular or at least not hated in a city inhabited by mostly goblins, especially if said dwarf is a dog owner?
You could always give him a high bluff and intimidate and a big axe.
“I am a goblin”
“Hmm..him could be goblin..”
*natural 20* “Wait, him no goblin!”
*axe to head*
“Yep, him a goblin, yep.”
As most goblins are not very bright... they may never accept a dwarf as "not food". However... most goblins are also not very choosy about what they eat either.
Maybe if you give the Dwarf lots of ranks in Craft: Cooking or Profession: Chef... he could kill of any goblins daring enough to actually attack him and prepare as food for the rest. It'd be a evil dwarf...and a very odd dining establishment.
Edit: On further thought he could do a brisk business melting down all the goblin weaponry he'd get his hands on and reforge it into sell-able merchandise.
The forge/oven/grill could be at the center of his establishment.
You know, Golarion Goblins don't have a wisdom or intelligence penalty, so you don't need to play them as moronic evil.
I have a friend who wonders why they don't have a Wisdom penalty instead of a Charisma penalty, because they're portrayed with a lot of star power, but a lack of common sense.
Really, Pathfinder goblins are more portrayed as ADHD Evil than Moronic Evil.
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I kinda see them as knowing that what they are doing can be self destructive, and counter intuitive to success, but thier love of inflicting pain and suffering on others is stronger than thier common sense. Kinda like a drug addict. He knows it ruins his life, but he has to do it anyway. I kinda feel bad for them.
You know, Golarion Goblins don't have a wisdom or intelligence penalty, so you don't need to play them as moronic evil.
True, you know Paizo goblins often remind me of Stewie from Family Guy :)
They remind me of Max, from Sam & Max, and in that context, I can think of them as bright, but addicted to violence, food, and sloth. ;)
Or Stitch from Lilo and Stitch . . . and poor Stitch just had a really hard time with impulse control, and certainly wasn't stupid.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing their goblinish cleverness played up a bit more. Nasty, Wile E. Coyote-esque traps of doom, actually cunning but insane ambushes, that kind of thing.
I'd love to see them fail by having ideas too awesome to handle. That skull bomb devised for the 2010 Paizo Superstar entry is the perfect example of what I want to see from the likes of them.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing their goblinish cleverness played up a bit more. Nasty, Wile E. Coyote-esque traps of doom, actually cunning but insane ambushes, that kind of thing.
I'd love to see them fail by having ideas too awesome to handle. That skull bomb devised for the 2010 Paizo Superstar entry is the perfect example of what I want to see from the likes of them.
I picture goblins as gamblers. Life's too short not to try and drop the lit cast iron stove off the cliff onto your enemies, thus crushing them and setting them on fire at the same time, even if its going to be tough to accomplish . . .
But if the stove lands in a wagon filled with gunpowder and manages to blow up the guards and knock open the front doors to the temple where everyone has holed up because of the goblin raid . . . your gambling just made you look like a goblin tactical genius!