Any thoughts on how to bump pathfinder's BURNT OFFERINGS scenario so it's not so unbelievably easy for my pc's?
Characters are btw,
monk
bard
inquistor
druid (plus APE)
wizard (summoner............)
The inquisitor is thinking of changing to a warrior class too because the scenario is just a giant dungeon crawl.
One other thought: is "FAST progression too fast? for these older scenarios?"
jh
I believe they was written for the medium advancement. Which might be part of the problem if the characters are leveling faster than the encounters get tougher.
The problem actually arose at 1st, but I'm thinking of ditching the rest of the boring dungeon crawly crap and just moving to the next scenario with them simply playing a level behind.
Without even a /real/ fighter in the party, they're mopping up..that's not a good sign if the inquisitor player is thinking of switching.
Yes, thanks for the tip on running at medium though. The characters are midway 2nd now and it's so lopsided I can't believe it in combats (I'm running as written now..normally I'm a killer DM and double the monsters ;)
jh
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I believe they was written for the medium advancement. Which might be part of the problem if the characters are leveling faster than the encounters get tougher.
They were written assuming 3.5 experience charts, the closest to pathfinder experience charts is the fast chart, and even the fast chart is slower than 3.5.
The problem is you're running pathfinder characters through a non-pathfinder module. You can either update them to pathfinder. In which case you can either do the work of updating most of it yourself as I did, or go here and have a lot of the work done for you, if you trust others work.
When I converted I kept CRs instead of keeping levels the same. This meant that anything with class levels had to get an extra level to maintain its CR. Anyway, if you do the conversion then you'll have no problem running the game with fast xp.
If you don't want to bother with a conversion then the problem is you have more powerful pathfinder classes and more players than the module assumes (5 instead of 4) and you'd probably be better off running it in the medium xp chart.
Aren't all official PRPG adventures written for medium progression, though? As for the old 3.5 modules like this AP, the default was fast progression. Also, in general, the 3.5 adventures are easier anyway for PRPG characters. Plus, if you have not done it yet, you should go and download the 3.5 to PRPG conversion guide from here.
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I'm running my group through this AP right now. You have to convert the NPC's and monsters to the new Pathfinder rules or they will be too easy for the characters. Found that out in our first session. If you go to the AP RotR boards, there are several conversions already done. You can also find some of the information on the PFSRD site.
Using the fast progression is fine, but you may need to cut back a little on the experience. I find that my group is leveling about 1/5 too fast. So I just use 4/5 of the encounter XP. Seems to be working. I can always through in a random encounter or two if they fall to far behind.
First of all, the Runelords AP was written for 3.5, and Pathfinder produces PC's that are at least a level or two tougher then their 3.5 counterparts. Based on the sample characters in the mod, I would also say that they are not intended for min/maxed or optimized PCs.
Also, it is written for 4 players, and you have 5.
The first few encounters are mostly designed to showcase what freaks the goblins are, not beat up the players. I had my players start with 2x normal starting wealth, and doubled up the first few encounters. Worked very well. I would also give every monster the toughness feat.
Once you get to thistletop things get a little tougher, and by the time the PCs reach the lower rooms you should be able to knock them around a little. Feel free to give the monsters a few advantages such as cover, height, and a few crude traps/pranks (i.e. bucket of knives over the door, floor soaked with oil, etc.) )
I would recommend having the first few encounters of Skinsaw (up through the "scarcrows" on the farm) happen before the PCs encounter Malfshanker.
The advanced simple template is your friend!
Also, it may be that you need to play the NPCs in a more sophisticated way.
Seems like a large party too, I'm not surprised they're breezing through. The adventure is designed for a party of 4.
Creative Director
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That 5th character is likely the lion's share of why your players are plowing through the challenges. The fact that low level (particularly 1st level) is where PCs see the largest change in power between the editions of the game compounds this, as does the fact that the first 3rd of Burnt Offerings is sort of SUPPOSED to let the PCs feel heroic.
Yeah; using the advanced template will probably help.
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For the APs I figure there is little reason to actually award XP. Goo through and have a quick look at the scenario and figure roughly when a good time to level would be. When the PCs get there, they level up. The AP is written for the characters to be certain levels during certain parts, so why mess with XP when they are going to get there at that level anyway.
In other words run the whole thing as story awards rather than individual XP awards (and all the headache and bookkeeping that requires).
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I have a 9 PC group going through it (next game tomorrow). Since not everybody can attend every time, that makes for tables of 6 usually.
It makes things more difficult, but I have found ways around the problem :
Give two more levels to NPCs, bump up their stats, raise HPs signficantnly.
Always use the guideline given by Lisa at some point : at the minimum give every opponent + 1 to Hit and DMG
specific examples from my game :
Also increase the number of Yeth hounds with her to four instead of one (gifts from the goddess).
Plowing through can be due to many factors:
Play up the praise they get from the townfolk for their "mopping up" the bad guys. Let them enjoy it.
Then sick Skinsaw Murders on them :) (far more brutal).
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Any thoughts on how to bump pathfinder's BURNT OFFERINGS scenario so it's not so unbelievably easy for my pc's?
Characters are btw,
monk
bard
inquistor
druid (plus APE)
wizard (summoner............)The inquisitor is thinking of changing to a warrior class too because the scenario is just a giant dungeon crawl.
One other thought: is "FAST progression too fast? for these older scenarios?"
jh
What I did was increase hit points by 20-30% and giving a +1 to saves and attack mods and such. It's a small increase, but it seemed to keep the players in check.
Plus, goblins with 8-10 hit points REALLY threw them for a loop! ;)
Thanks for the tips so far everybody. I'm really appreciating these. I'm still leaning towards skipping the mind-numbing dungeon crawl at the end of burnt offerings and going right to skinsaw. I think they'd be at 3rd level starting that one.
jh
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I get pretty template happy, in situations like this. Turning animals into tainted fiendish animals, or giving goblins a level of rogue (that +1d6 sneak attack stacks up fast!) can turn normal encounters into scarier ones.
In the Freeport adventures, I was turning NPC class people into PC class people, and NPC 'cultists' into 1st / 1st Cleric / Rogues, and 2nd level Warriors into 2nd level Urban Rangers to mix things up. I even had one encounter where every single member of the party ended up at zero or negative hit points (but during different rounds, so that it was never a defeat, and they ended up winning at the end!), and, while that's the ideal, I try to keep the encounters challenging and exciting without being over the top.
Nothing bores my characters more than a cakewalk. They start to do crazy stuff...
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You can always add to the level of difficulty in other ways too if your party is getting bored.
-Require them to capture one of the main villians, not kill them.
-Give the BBEG a hostage they must rescue.
-Have an item that needs to be recovered, so if they slaughter everything, they must find it another way.
You get the idea. I usually have to use these with my group since they are a larger party, but it works well since they are also avid RPers.
You can also give this thread a try: