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I would like to throw in my thanks for writing this, and my hope that you will continue your excellent work into the later chapters. I was originally planning to run Kingmaker with 4 players, but rather suddenly found myself with six. This guide has proved invaluable in making the game still a challenge (although they still managed to beat Kressle in their first session... mainly because I forgot about Kressle's potion...).
Kressle's not too nasty with good tactics and if the camp is 'unaware' and half of their number are out hunting. I'd love to hear any accounts of a 6 person party tackling the aware camp at 1st level. Kressle took out the Oracle in my 6 man group with a single thrown dagger from 30 feet; nasty critical hit. She was the only one of the bandits who was able to act in the surprise round.
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I would like to throw in my thanks for writing this, and my hope that you will continue your excellent work into the later chapters. I was originally planning to run Kingmaker with 4 players, but rather suddenly found myself with six. This guide has proved invaluable in making the game still a challenge (although they still managed to beat Kressle in their first session... mainly because I forgot about Kressle's potion...).Kressle's not too nasty with good tactics and if the camp is 'unaware' and half of their number are out hunting. I'd love to hear any accounts of a 6 person party tackling the aware camp at 1st level. Kressle took out the Oracle in my 6 man group with a single thrown dagger from 30 feet; nasty critical hit. She was the only one of the bandits who was able to act in the surprise round.
I doubt they'll tackle it at 1st level but my players are doomed to face an aware bandit camp. They spent several days exploring rather than storming the camp, which was probably prudent. On the other hand, they left all the bandits alive with their promise to serve Oleg as recompense while Happs was left unconscious and bound in the stables. While some of the bandits may actually mean to start over, Happs is unrepentant and determined to survive. They may just find he's escaped by the time the group returns to Oleg. Possibly doing some damage in the process.
Was working on the Varnhold Vanishing last night and it only took 20 minutes to go through the whole adventure and get a reasonable upgrade..
With 3.5 that might have taken me 4 or 5 hours
PF FTW again
Last night my party got to the temple of the elk..I was feeling evil so threw a Dire Bear at them..mainly because my party has 6 good characters(they would range from 26 to 30 points on a point buy system)
2 rounds was all it took to put down a 95 hp creature. Granted they were lucky on their damage delivery and I nearly took out the Dwarf tank with the Urgosh
I am getting ready to start this AP in a few weeks and this conversion has been a Godsend for me, as I am also in the middle of helping to plan my wedding in Sept.
My fiance' and I are co-DMing this and with some filling in of some note cards, we can now seemlessly switch back and forth on who gets to sit in the Big DM chair.
Bravo Zulu for a job well done and I look forward to the next conversions.
I just wanted to add my thanks to this thread. I'll be starting Kingmaker with six players at the end of this month.
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:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
I'll collaborate and start one for Chapter 3 when I finish with my Kingdom macros. This is too mighty a task to rest on one DM's shoulders.
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I'll collaborate and start one for Chapter 3 when I finish with my Kingdom macros. This is too mighty a task to rest on one DM's shoulders.:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
You want to make a joint one, or you do Chapter 3 and I do Chapter 4? You have my e-mail, add me on MSN :)
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You want to make a joint one, or you do Chapter 3 and I do Chapter 4? You have my e-mail, add me on MSN :)I'll collaborate and start one for Chapter 3 when I finish with my Kingdom macros. This is too mighty a task to rest on one DM's shoulders.:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
Let's do it that way and give each other edit privileges. If we have any suggestions for each other, we can add them in parenthesis, but this way we'll get twice the work done. And if you want to add anyone else, just send an invite.
I might put up a separate googledoc for new NPCs(collecting some of mine and some of the ones other people posted in the Kingmaker forum) and upgraded villains for anyone who finds the survival rate of enemies to be staggeringly high and wants to have a more advanced version to drop in on their players when they least expect it(maybe when the PCs roll a disaster on the Kingdom chart or an assassination attempt).
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You want to make a joint one, or you do Chapter 3 and I do Chapter 4? You have my e-mail, add me on MSN :)I'll collaborate and start one for Chapter 3 when I finish with my Kingdom macros. This is too mighty a task to rest on one DM's shoulders.:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
Let's do it that way and give each other edit privileges. If we have any suggestions for each other, we can add them in parenthesis, but this way we'll get twice the work done. And if you want to add anyone else, just send an invite.
I might put up a separate googledoc for new NPCs(collecting some of mine and some of the ones other people posted in the Kingmaker forum) and upgraded villains for anyone who finds the survival rate of enemies to be staggeringly high and wants to have a more advanced version to drop in on their players when they least expect it(maybe when the PCs roll a disaster on the Kingdom chart or an assassination attempt).
Sounds good. Get me on MSN (alexkilcoyne AT hotmail DOT com)
:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
I actually think I'm going to use your document for chapter 2. good thing we're taking a week off in my game due to people being out. I think our next session is going to be mostly kingdom building (plus a little side quest to kill some ogres I'm working on to tie into one of my PCs back stories).
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I actually think I'm going to use your document for chapter 2. good thing we're taking a week off in my game due to people being out. I think our next session is going to be mostly kingdom building (plus a little side quest to kill some ogres I'm working on to tie into one of my PCs back stories).:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
I best get chapter 2 done then ;) will have it up before the weeks out thats guaranteed.
If you all would like a hand with state blocks and the like, I'm more that happy to lend a hand.
** spoiler omitted **
Ditto, if there's a section you need a hand at,
reachmeonmyiphone at gmail dot com
This guide has been a life saver to me and my party! I want to say THANK YOU- I haven't had a lot of time and so updating myself was becoming a serious headache. This guide was well written very easily explained and I actually enjoyed updating the treasure myself as it allowed me to customize a bit. Thank you again!!
My group has just finished the Stag Lord's fort and we are just beginning to look at the second installment. I eagerly await your update for the second installment.
I best get chapter 2 done then ;) will have it up before the weeks out thats guaranteed.I actually think I'm going to use your document for chapter 2. good thing we're taking a week off in my game due to people being out. I think our next session is going to be mostly kingdom building (plus a little side quest to kill some ogres I'm working on to tie into one of my PCs back stories).:)
I'm actually finishing off my chapter 2 conversion today and tomorrow- yeah i know it's been a while sorry all. I'll link to the thread in here when its done. Making it a google doc this time
Not trying to push or anything, but did you get the chapter 2 conversion done?
Geeky Frignit wrote:
"Not trying to push or anything, but did you get the chapter 2 conversion done?"
Indeed- not to be pushy but I would love to see the new conversion for chapter 2!
schmaing003@yahoo.com is my email if you need it. Again the first one rocked!!!
Thanks for this. I've got six members in the party, all with phenomenal stats as I tend to run high stat games. The Mites turned out to be much less of a pushover crawl thanks in part to bad luck on the PCs' part and good dice on mine, but it was still much better than it would have been. They hit the bandit camp last night, but I used a different Kressle with two levels of barbarian tacked onto her - she critted the centaur monk (yes, that's right) in the first round, and if I'd done my multiplication right, she'd probably have gotten at least one PC killed (since I failed to multiply her raging strength bonus, she didn't drop him to -1 hp in one hit, setting him up for CdGs while she focused all her attention on the other beater of the party. My bad :( ) This has been a really handy little boost to the campaign. Looking forward to more.
I have a party of six and thank you for all this leg work. We had a short into game, where the party came together in Restov, but the group of 6 has not made it to Oleg's yet. This is an outstanding resource. Thanks
Not to be too poky but did we finally complete chapter 2? I apologize if I am being to nagging but My Pcs are knocking on the doors of the Adventure as it were and I would love to have a conversion before they start thwarting my schemes left and right :-).
And while your at it, Alex, could you jet to the states and run my adventure for me.
@ Vanulf Wulfson
I do not feel that was called for. I was neither rude nor demanding and merely would love to see what Alexander Kilcoyne had worked up. His first conversion was a huge help as many here have attested to. I was simply asking as it had been some time since any post had been made. There is no reason to be snarky nor insulting!
I apologize to Alexander if he feels rushed or offended by my request- but I am not asking him to run my games nor do I appreciate the implication.
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I'm sure vanulf meant no offence :)
I thought I'd replied to this earlier but it seems the post monster ate it. The whole conversions currently progressing very slowly as real life has conspired to limit my free time- It may be a while before I get chapter 2 conversion online.
I have received several emails asking for what I have managed to get done so far, and if anyone else wants the work in progress please feel free to send me an e-mail at alexkilcoyne@hotmail.com.
All the minor kingdom events have been converted as have most of the exploration events.
Alex
Would you like some help on parts of the AP? Since it's already quite compartmentalized, it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to split.
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Thanks for the write up. My players now hate small spaces and mites. It was hilarious. The characters kept dropping like flies. They went directly to the mite king. And it went downhill really fast. If it wasn't for the kobolds they brought with them they probably would have never made it out. They managed to kill the mite king and his tick, after the tick attached itself to the barbarian for 6 rounds. Nasty. The rest of the mites were easily routed, but half the party was unconscious at this point, including the drained barbarian. After the fight the characters leveled. The first thing the witch did was learn reduce person and make several potions of reduce person so they wouldn't have to deal with that again. :)
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Thanks for the write up. My players now hate small spaces and mites. It was hilarious. The characters kept dropping like flies. They went directly to the mite king. And it went downhill really fast. If it wasn't for the kobolds they brought with them they probably would have never made it out. They managed to kill the mite king and his tick, after the tick attached itself to the barbarian for 6 rounds. Nasty. The rest of the mites were easily routed, but half the party was unconscious at this point, including the drained barbarian. After the fight the characters leveled. The first thing the witch did was learn reduce person and make several potions of reduce person so they wouldn't have to deal with that again. :)
Heh, nice :). I just took my PbP group through the mite lair, but they got ambushed by several mites, the five centipedes and the giant centipede a few rounds later. They managed to kill their attackers but fled the lair with Grabbles and the remaining miteshot on their tail.
I really liked your redesign of Grabbles. He was the last mite standing, cornered with his back on the chasm. His hardiness surprised my players since the other mites were really pathetic. They especially hated him because the last time they went down in the mite lair, he was mocking them on the other side of the chasm when they retreated from the centipede after losing someone at the bottom of the hole.. and then two others on the way out.
I succeeded on so many ride checks. Good times!
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I really liked your redesign of Grabbles. He was the last mite standing, cornered with his back on the chasm. His hardiness surprised my players since the other mites were really pathetic. They especially hated him because the last time they went down in the mite lair, he was mocking them on the other side of the chasm when they retreated from the centipede after losing someone at the bottom of the hole.. and then two others on the way out.
I succeeded on so many ride checks. Good times!
Love hearing how Grabbles did in peoples games, thanks for sharing.
He was the last mite standing for my RL group too, dead mites all around him, his mount slain, leaping off as the vermin died and eventually finally being grappled by an exhausted and shaken party member- only for the party witch who hadn't been in melee the whole long, nasty combat with 7 strength to get a lucky blow on him and crit-gank him with a spear. They were already a bit creeped out by her as it was lol. The fight was the group's second sojourn into the lair and Grabbles had blockaded the entrance to the chamber of torment and moved the remnaning mites to the far side of the chasm so they were forced to cross the chasm to fight him (the combat started with furious skirmishing with darts, crossbows, arrows and (to Grabbles horror) a grenade.
He ordered his mites away from the fearsome devicee but a summoned eagle bull rushed the grenade into a mob of nearby mites, killing nearly all of them. Good times.
In other news- I apologise for the delay in finishing chapter 2. I managed to get some time for it today and got a huge amount done, fingers crossed i'll have it up online by the weekend :D
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In other news- I apologise for the delay in finishing chapter 2. I managed to get some time for it today and got a huge amount done, fingers crossed i'll have it up online by the weekend :D
If you need any help with future stuff, drop me a line. I have some time available to make conversions.
Wonderfull work. Well explained and detailled.
Thanks a lot.
Alexander,
I meant to post/say something earlier, but apparently never did...
I also want to thank you for all your hard work at posting/advancing the "Stolen Lands" for 6 players, exactly what I have in my group as well.
I run Kingmaker every other week (on Sundays) which is good, as it allows me the time I need to draw encounter maps (when map packs or flip mats just won't cut it) and advance the encounters for a 6 player party. Your conversions/suggestions have been a godsend. I've pretty much mirrored if not outright used your conversions/advancements... and in less than two weeks (Oct. 17th actually) my group is going to tackle the Stag Lord.
Anyway... I just wanted to thank you for all your hard work. And I'll be checking out your "Rivers Run Red" conversion for further assistance. (Although thanks to your "notes" I more or less get the "math" behind the advancement.
Regards,
Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm
I'll add in my thanks for the hard work. I've been modifying my game for 5 players, and have used a mix of your modifications with more standard encounters to keep them around the correct level.
One suggestion for the Nugrah. Considering his new abilities (and high Wisdom), I plan on having him Wild Shape into a small earth elemental, hang from the roof, then lay down a Spike Stones before using Summon Nature's Ally IV to call up the 1d4+1 Elementals.
Then he can drop among them, and he and the Elementals can ignore the Spike Stones by using Earth Glide...and he can use them as very solid 'mirror images'.
Two session into the campaign....
Session 1 - Paladin went from 11 to 2 hp when Happs shot him. Damn good damage roll...
Session 2 - Kressle took to negatives, 3 of the 5 pc's, and the druid and his bear were next but a lucky shot killed her. However, I must admit that two of the pc's would have missed hitting the broad side of the barn, even if they were standing inside it!
This is with 5 pc's, 20 point buy, using the 6 person mods (Thanks Alex!!) and dividing the xp by 6. I have forgotten had vulnerable 1st level pc's are!
-- david
Papa.DRB
Time to bump this thread again. Thank you for your outstanding work, Alexander!
My Savage Tide campaign is looking to wind up early after Wells of Darkness, the players seem to be suffering from high level fatigue, and we will probably end the campaign when Vanthus is defeated, so Kingmaker will then follow much sooner than originally anticipated.
My group is six players, so this will come in very handy. I hope I can convince them to go with 15 points build; they've been used to 25 points and lots of 3.5 material (which happily will go away in the new campaign), and they have mostly been unbeatable. I hope the new campaign will bring a challenge!
Thanks again!
My group went up against the 6PC-modified recently Stag Lord fort, and were surprisingly effective against everyone but Nugrah. (5 characters, but 25 point buy...none were optimized however, as only one had a stat below 10). Characters were a Cleric (Erastil), Alchemist, Fighter, Paladin & Cavalier.
Having been forwarned by bandits they questioned, they knew about the undead that surrounded the area, and they noticed as they spied on the keep from a distance that only the front road was carefully watched, so they went in essentially undetected by using Hide from Undead to sneak up to the fort from behind, where it was least watched (first I've heard of that particular strategy).
Stag Lord was killed in his sleep, Akiros was Held (failed his save, Raged, and failed his save again...argh), and a non-lethal coup-de-gras knocked him unconscious.
The rest of the fort was just mop-up, with only Auchs giving them any problems at all...right up until they met Nugrah. With a slight change in language (changed his bonus language to Terran to reflect the nature of his bond), and a slight tactics changed, Nugrah alone, with no equipment, nearly resulted in a TPK.
Nugrah used Wildshape to become a small earth elemental, and popped out of hiding and dropped Spike Stones as his first spell, completely destroying the party's mobility. Using Earth Glide he had total mobility, and they couldn't move without damaging themselves. Once he summoned 1d4+1 Earth Elementals (got 4 of them), they were able to move around with impunity, popping out of the ground at his direction to flank various party members, while he made their lives miserable with spells.
In the end, they did manage to defeat him, but only after using every last healing consumable resource they had, and even they the party's hit point totals were negative as a group (two people in low single digits, several others in high negative HP).
Since the hardest fight they've had prior to now was Tartuk the Kobold, they're now trying to work out ways to immediately neutralize spellcasters.
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Just wanted to add that I've been using these "6-PC Guides" for Stolen Lands and, now, Rivers Run Red. They're awesome! I'm able to challenge all 6 of my players, do enough damage to threaten them but not overwhelm them if they play smart (I still hold out hope of killing someone, anyone!). Well written and totally helpful. Thanks to all the writers!
So, as soon as I discovered these existed, I recruited a 6th person to fill out my group (we had 5 for our previous campaign). We're about to start the Stolen Lands at our next session, but we did stat rolling this week.
Two sets were tied for lowest total mod (+3 total). One was ridiculously powerful (5 stats at 16 or above, and one 4). The other three are:
18, 16, 13, 12, 10, 8
17, 16, 15, 12, 10, 8
16, 16, 15, 14, 9, 9
Each has a total mod of +8, and is equivalent to a 30 point buy (which I didn't calculate until later). I didn't expect stats that high from 4d6-drop-one (the bell-curve peaks at 13), but I liked the way the stats broke down - there's something for SAD characters, something for MAD characters, and something for the characters in-between. So I let my players keep them.
So the question now is, now that I have 6 players who have the equivalent of non-optimized 30-point-buy stats, is the 6-player adventure going to be hard enough? Obviously, once we start, I'll adjust either way as needed, but I want some kind of idea of what I'm getting myself in for.
So, as soon as I discovered these existed, I recruited a 6th person to fill out my group (we had 5 for our previous campaign). We're about to start the Stolen Lands at our next session, but we did stat rolling this week.
** spoiler omitted **So the question now is, now that I have 6 players who have the equivalent of non-optimized 30-point-buy stats, is the 6-player adventure going to be hard enough? Obviously, once we start, I'll adjust either way as needed, but I want some kind of idea of what I'm getting myself in for.
Advanced simple template for everything in the six player conversion. It can easily apply twice - that's the beauty of the simple templates.
If they go nuts on you later with item crafting and cohorts, you might check out the exemplar template or the mighty simple template (from 3pp sources) to ramp up the challenge without having to go totally sideways on the statblocks.
I would tentatively suggest trying out the six player conversion as is for the moment, but I expect you'll have to scale up a little.
I'll probably leave it as-is until they hit second level, at the very least. I wouldn't want to kill a first level character, although if it happens, it happens. Depending on how they're handling it, I'll probably apply Turin's suggestion for a bit and see how things go. One of the nice things about Kingmaker is that since it's so non-linear, my players won't be surprised by monsters becoming more or less powerful relative to everything else they've encountered.
Thanks again for the conversion!
That said, if I get time I will post up a second version of this conversion with the treasure values modified for 6 people as well; I intend to have this done for my own group soon.
Did the treasure updates ever get posted anywhere? Or do you have any general guidelines? I mean, I could add 50% to the value of all treasure as extra coins, or just give out extra loot every so often from random encounters, but I'd like to have it be as well-integrated as the extra CR.