Let's keep working the math, rather than marketplace:
Brothel + House = 7
Smith = 6
Mill = 6
Shop + House = 11
That's 30 total, for +4 economy, +8 for leadership = +12 Economy.
Now we need some farms. Clear Grasslands 1 + Road 1 + 2 for Farm = 4 BP per farm. 2 Farms = -4 to consumption. Costs 8 BP. 38 of the starting 50.
Consumption is now 3 hexes (city + 2 farms) + 1 district = 4. With farms we now have 0 consumption. That's good.
Economy roll is now 23 though (20 + 3 hexes) for slightly less than 50/50. Call it 50/50 and let's say you make 5 BP if you make the roll. That's 12 turns * 5 * .5 = +30 BP for the year.
OK, that works. Actually, what you build is really secondary. Get the 2 farms for a consumption of 0 and then you can wait as long as you needed to make that Economy roll.
And there's nothing that says you have to start with a city is there? You'd be better off making your first hex a farmland, wait to make a couple economy rolls to build up your bank account, and then build your city.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Let's keep working the math, rather than marketplace:
Brothel + House = 7
Smith = 6
Mill = 6
Shop + House = 11That's 30 total, for +4 economy, +8 for leadership = +12 Economy.
Now we need some farms. Clear Grasslands 1 + Road 1 + 2 for Farm = 4 BP per farm. 2 Farms = -4 to consumption. Costs 8 BP. 38 of the starting 50.
Consumption is now 3 hexes (city + 2 farms) + 1 district = 4. With farms we now have 0 consumption. That's good.
Economy roll is now 23 though (20 + 3 hexes) for slightly less than 50/50. Call it 50/50 and let's say you make 5 BP if you make the roll. That's 12 turns * 5 * .5 = +30 BP for the year.
OK, that works. Actually, what you build is really secondary. Get the 2 farms for a consumption of 0 and then you can wait as long as you needed to make that Economy roll.
And there's nothing that says you have to start with a city is there? You'd be better off making your first hex a farmland, wait to make a couple economy rolls to build up your bank account, and then build your city.
It's quite correct. In many ways you WANT to build a city, as it lets you start stacking up improvements, but you don't have to start off right away.
My group went like this.
-Set leaders
-Claim hex (stag lords)
-Start clearing city site
-Generate BP
Month 2;
-Stability check, BP!
-Pay consumption
-Claim hex (rickety bridge?)
-Build farmland
-Built a house
-Built a inn
-Built free roads
-Generate BP
-Tatzylford is founded
Month 3;
-Stability check, BP!
-Pay consumption
-Claim hex (fangberries?)
-Build farmland
-Build roads
-Generate BP
-Troll rumors begin
-Loyalty check to settle rumors
Group decides to explore some surrounding hexes. Rescue the gnome expedition, visit the Old Beldame, get the quest for the rattlecaps. Return to the inn with the corpse their tengu fighter/rogue and 1,000gp richer.
Month 4;
-Stability check, BP!
-Pay consumption
-Claim hex (sootscales?)
-Build mine
-Build roads
-Build graveyard
-Generate BP
-Werewolf event
-Loyalty check to settle rumors
Month 5;
-Stability check, BP!
-Pay consumption
-Claim hex (???)
-Build farm
-Build roads
-Build academy
-Generate BP
-No event
-Loyalty check to settle rumors
Something like that. The academy is a pretty awesome investment.
Creative Director
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OK, here's a question and a statement/question: Question is: Will we see rules for highways? I saw earlier that the roads in the rules were not highways, but I could have missed it.
The statement/question is: My DM (He doesn't mind my being here) Let us (The PCs) create a law for our kingdom that required everyone in the city to peace tie their weapons, unless they didn't have special permission, he gave us a +1 bonus to stability as crime cuts down, but I'm not sure that's fair, what do you guys think?
We don't really add many more rules to the kingdom building rules during the course of Kingmaker. What's in #32 is more or less it. That means there won't be rules for highways, nor rules for other forms of government.
At least... not during Kingmaker. These rules are proving quite popular, and I'm relatively sure that, just as we've made traits and haunts and chases and a few other subsystems of rules integral parts of the game (detailed in the upcoming GameMastery Guide or the Advanced Player's Guide) I'm 99% sure that at some point in the future the kingdom and city building rules will be much more expanded in some future supplement. And THAT would be the time where we'd take a lot of the feedback from this first incarnation and polish things up and do some pretty extensive expansions to the basic rules we're starting with in Kingmaker.
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OK, here's a question and a statement/question: Question is: Will we see rules for highways? I saw earlier that the roads in the rules were not highways, but I could have missed it.
The statement/question is: My DM (He doesn't mind my being here) Let us (The PCs) create a law for our kingdom that required everyone in the city to peace tie their weapons, unless they didn't have special permission, he gave us a +1 bonus to stability as crime cuts down, but I'm not sure that's fair, what do you guys think?
We don't really add many more rules to the kingdom building rules during the course of Kingmaker. What's in #32 is more or less it. That means there won't be rules for highways, nor rules for other forms of government.
At least... not during Kingmaker. These rules are proving quite popular, and I'm relatively sure that, just as we've made traits and haunts and chases and a few other subsystems of rules integral parts of the game (detailed in the upcoming GameMastery Guide or the Advanced Player's Guide) I'm 99% sure that at some point in the future the kingdom and city building rules will be much more expanded in some future supplement. And THAT would be the time where we'd take a lot of the feedback from this first incarnation and polish things up and do some pretty extensive expansions to the basic rules we're starting with in Kingmaker.
Speaking of that i wonder whether there will be an impact from character skills to the kingdom.
Until now the rulers depend only what the gods (dice or buy points) have given them as "natural" resource (Attributes).
But most of the "professional" rulers should als depend on skills.
Or what is a Grand Diplomat without the Diplomacy Skill (which is IMO one of the most fundamental skills for the uprising nobles) or a Magister without an appropriate knowledge?
I recommend to give a ruler a +1 bonus on his role stat for every 5 ranks in an appropriate skill. And only the bonus of the highest skill applies.
Examples are:
Diplomacy is beneficial for any role since you have to handle with people and make them act as you want it.
Ruler (both): Perform (Oratory) since rulers have to convince their folks that they rule right.
Councilor: Sense Motive, Knowledge (Nobility, local) since the Council need to advice the rulers and support them with information about the kingdom.
General: (quite difficult because a General needs to be successful in times of war to be noticed) Knowledge (Geography, local) because a General has to order his troops and to know were to send them for best effect.
Grand Diplomat: Knowledge (Nobility, Geography), Perform (Oratory) as he needs to know how to handle "international" relations and "national" habits and to convince others to respect and support the own kingdom.
High Priest: Perform (Oratory), Sense Motive reflecting the ceremonial issue the highest ecclesiastic person has to perform on the one side and the pastoral duty on the other.
Magister: any Knowledge skill, Spellcraft whether the Magister is either mundane or magical he has to serve as mediator and source of knowledge to the kingdom.
Marshal: Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography, local), Perception, Survival representing the law outside the towns he has to know the area and to find the wrong doers. Enforcing the law is his duty and scaring the law breakers seems to fit.
Royal Assassin: (as difficult as the General because you have to establish a reputation in advance to let it work) Intimidate, Knowledge (local), Sense Motive bullying and knowing or sensing secrets helps an assassin much.
Spymaster: Bluff, Knowledge (local), Perform, Sense Motive knowledge and disguise are the tools of a spy.
Treasurer: Appraise, Profession (accountant*, clerk, scribe), Sense Motive. You have to know and handle the numbers and not be duped.
Warden: (nearly as the Marshal but in town) Intimidate, Knowledge (local), Perception, Sense Motive. Enforcing the law by mostly any approach is the job.
This can lead to a more skillfull leaders.
As long as we're discussing tweaks - the "your kingdom can only build 1 building a month" is nice and easy but doesn't make a lot of sense. I built a 60 BP people last month but if I want an 8BP shop this month and don't have the resources to do anything else.
I was considering changing that to 2 BPs for every hex you control (or 1, 3, whatever) and removing the building, house, road, farmland restrictions. The bigger your kingdom, the more people you have, the more resources, the more you can get done a turn. This then also makes the "worthless" forest hexes have a use.
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Creative Director
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As long as we're discussing tweaks - the "your kingdom can only build 1 building a month" is nice and easy but doesn't make a lot of sense. I built a 60 BP people last month but if I want an 8BP shop this month and don't have the resources to do anything else.
I was considering changing that to 2 BPs for every hex you control (or 1, 3, whatever) and removing the building, house, road, farmland restrictions. The bigger your kingdom, the more people you have, the more resources, the more you can get done a turn. This then also makes the "worthless" forest hexes have a use.
The reason we limited the number of buildings per moth for smaller kingdoms is simple: we wanted to keep things interesting in the early game. In most of the playtests, players quickly spent ALL of their BP to build many buildings, and as a result they had to wait a LOT of turns to recover their costs enough to be able to buy more buildings.
Limiting buildings to 1 per turn early on not only spreads out that element over multiple turns but it helps to make kingdoms feel like they're growing in size more organically.
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I made up some optional rules (house rules) for factoring spells into kingdom building, as some spells are powerful enough to have an influence on the kingdom.
Continual Flame: In the night, criminals and monsters
use the darkness to hide their evil business, even in
your cities.
If you illuminate all districts of a city with Continual
Flames, the kingdom’s Stability and Loyalty increase
by 1.
To illuminate a whole district, 250 castings of Continual
Flame are necessary.
Teleportation Circle and Permanency: If you link two
cities with two permanent Teleportation Circles, the
kingdom’s Economy increases by 8 and its Stability
increases by 4, as goods and people can be
exchanged between the cities without lengthy transport
by road.
Two cities can only benefit from one pair of
Teleportation Circles, but one city can be linked with
many different cities.
Additionally, the Teleportation Circles can be used to
move armies quickly around in the kingdom.
Wall of Fire and Permanency: A City Wall can be
enforced with permanent Walls of Fire placed in front of
it. A City Wall is 750 ft. long.
The Defense Modifier of City Walls enforced by Walls
of Fire increases by 4.
Wall of Force and Permanency: In theory, a City Wall
can be enforced with permanent Walls of Force,
although this is incredibly expensive. A City Wall is 750
ft. Long; a 20-ft. high wall has 150 10-ft. squares, a 30-
ft. wall has 225 10-ft. squares, and a 40-ft. wall has 300
10-ft. squares.
The Defense Modifier of City Walls enforced by Walls
of Force increases by 8.
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Here are some more house rules concerning magic items:
Crystal Ball: A Crystal Ball placed in a city allows its
officials to quickly gain information on the progress of
patrols or even to spy on known criminals.
The kingdom’s stability increases by 2. A city can profit
from only one Crystal Ball.
Crystal Ball with Telepathy: With this Crystal Ball,
city officials can also easily communicate with patrols
and officials in other cities.
The kingdom’s stability increases by 4. A city can profit
from only one Crystal Ball.
Decanter of Endless Water: This item supplies fresh
water for gardens, sewers and fountains when placed
in a city.
The kingdom’s Economy, Loyalty and Stability increase
by 1.
In addition, the city gains a +4 bonus to any Stability
check made to avoid the destruction of a city block
after a fire. A city can profit from only one Decanter of
Endless Water.
Ring Gates: If you link two cities with Ring Gates,
these cities can instantly exchange information in an
easy way and exchange small amounts of goods, for
example potions.
The kingdom’s stability increases by 2. Two cities can
only benefit from one pair of Ring Gates.
Vorpal weapon: If the kingdom has a Royal Assassin
who adds his Strength modifier to Loyalty and who is
known to carry a Vorpal weapon, the fear inspired by
the Royal Assassin reduces Unrest by 2 during each
Upkeep phase.
I like these, though the bonuses might be too high unless a group is only allowed magic items they craft or that their kingdom rolls randomly. I don't know if any of these items will be found treasure in the AP, but as long as they're still hard to obtain, the bonus is probably balanced.
I would try to match the effect on kingdom checks from items to a building of equivalent cost. A Decanter of Endless Water is roughly 2 BP so incorporating one should have half the effect of a 4 BP building. Which would be +1 to a stat.
That makes sense as well. Perhaps an equal amount of BP used to construct proper facilities, security, and manpower for the use of the magical item in question. That would justify doubling the bonus granted.
I had a question about the Sell Valuable Item phase. What do you do if a magical item slot is tied up with an item that is worth less then 4,000 gp? Make the Economy check to see if it get's sold for it's listed amount to add towards a BP?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I had a question about the Sell Valuable Item phase. What do you do if a magical item slot is tied up with an item that is worth less then 4,000 gp? Make the Economy check to see if it get's sold for it's listed amount to add towards a BP?
The official rule is: Make an economy roll to sell it, which gives you NOTHING but clears the slot.
IMC I have chosen to allow PCs to sell items and just accrue gp value at the cost of the item in question. Every time the meter hits 4000 gp value, they get a BP (rather than using the fixed amount of BP by item type).
Which means some months you do well, and other months your economy bites. One recent month, I believe the kingdom netted a total of 1 BP from magic item sales (including a pair of medium items that were worth like 50 and 375 gp or something like that). They also failed their economy roll that month (natural 1), meaning their entire income was 2 BP (1 BP for Stability check with no unrest).
They were very happy when the kingdom event was new vassals and that brought in 3 extra BP. :)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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That makes sense as well. Perhaps an equal amount of BP used to construct proper facilities, security, and manpower for the use of the magical item in question. That would justify doubling the bonus granted.
I think that increasing the cost over the base item is a good reflection of the BP concept - it's not just about making the item and dropping it down a well with the switch turned on. To make it useful, you gotta put that infrastructure around it, including security and people to oversee and run it.
Can you Nat fail with a 1? Cause my guys have a +36 Economy check on their 6th month...
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Creative Director
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Can you Nat fail with a 1? Cause my guys have a +36 Economy check on their 6th month...
Having a natural 1 fail is probalby a good idea. Likewise, letting a natural 20 always succeed is probably good too.
And again, since the rules aren't 100% ironed out, if you find your players have powergamed their kingdom up to super high numbers, feel free to up the Control DC of the kingdom or hit them with more encounters that lower their bonuses. You don't want to ruin the PC's progress and frustrate them, but you do want to make them feel like it's not super easy to build a kingdom.
Of course, if eveyryone's having a lot of fun, maybe that's a good reason to not change a thing!
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Here's a cheap magic item I think might be useful ^ _^
Pipes of the Sewer
A city which spends 1 BP and has two sets of pipes may enlist a crew of street performers who regularly use the pipes to attract and dispose of vermin. A healthy populace is a happy one. +1 Loyalty
Of course, if eveyryone's having a lot of fun, maybe that's a good reason to not change a thing!
I'm pretty sure they'll end up with a large surplus of BP since there's only so much they can build a month. At that point we'll probably start thinking of alternate things to do with BP. Like adjusting their roles to maximize Loyalty in order to make large scale withdraws to purchase the items they keep rolling up like Manual of gainful exercise +1 and +2 holy bastard swords. Or maybe withdrawing BP to purchase resurrections due to the likes of centipede infested shambling mounds. At that point their crazy production will slow down.
I didn't see the answer for this anywhere, so if I missed it I apologize.
Where the first house you build in an improvement phase doesn't count against the total number of buildings you can build that phase, can you instead build a tenement?
(Don't know if my players will do this if they can, but want to know if the option is there just in case.)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Of course, if eveyryone's having a lot of fun, maybe that's a good reason to not change a thing!I'm pretty sure they'll end up with a large surplus of BP since there's only so much they can build a month. At that point we'll probably start thinking of alternate things to do with BP. Like adjusting their roles to maximize Loyalty in order to make large scale withdraws to purchase the items they keep rolling up like Manual of gainful exercise +1 and +2 holy bastard swords. Or maybe withdrawing BP to purchase resurrections due to the likes of centipede infested shambling mounds. At that point their crazy production will slow down.
Hee hee hee. My diabolical heart was tickled that Rob included one of those in the adventure. :)
Although this may qualify as a house rule, have any considered the methods and benefits and challenges of appointing vassals to manage/rule portions of the domain on behalf of the PCs? How might this best be implemented?
For very large nations, this would seem a worthwhile endeavor, allowing PCs to not get bogged down in the smaller details of micromanagement (off-loading work onto the GM?)
On a tangent, how best to implement the establishment and maintenance of trade routes and alliances with foreign powers?
Perhaps there is a simple abstraction to depict and manage these 'relationships' (vassal territories, alliances?).
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Although this may qualify as a house rule, have any considered the methods and benefits and challenges of appointing vassals to manage/rule portions of the domain on behalf of the PCs? How might this best be implemented?
For very large nations, this would seem a worthwhile endeavor, allowing PCs to not get bogged down in the smaller details of micromanagement (off-loading work onto the GM?)
On a tangent, how best to implement the establishment and maintenance of trade routes and alliances with foreign powers?
Perhaps there is a simple abstraction to depict and manage these 'relationships' (vassal territories, alliances?).
I've been turning over the idea of some kind of trade route rule but haven't really had a great inspiration for implementing it. I mean, the Econ bonus from roads (and rivers, if you use that house rule) is an implicit "trade route" rule already, but I tend to think that it should probably be based around your "special resources." As in, for each one of those you have, you could establish a trade route.
How much it costs and how much it pays, that I haven't really figured out yet.
I've been turning over the idea of some kind of trade route rule but haven't really had a great inspiration for implementing it. I mean, the Econ bonus from roads (and rivers, if you use that house rule) is an implicit "trade route" rule already, but I tend to think that it should probably be based around your "special resources." As in, for each one of those you have, you could establish a trade route.How much it costs and how much it pays, that I haven't really figured out yet.
In my opinion, the kingdom rules as written already assume a lot of trade between the kingdom and its neighbors.
Otherwise, the rules couldn't abstract away questions like "How does the kingdom build a house when it includes no forest hex to get the wood from?"
Although this may qualify as a house rule, have any considered the methods and benefits and challenges of appointing vassals to manage/rule portions of the domain on behalf of the PCs? How might this best be implemented?
For very large nations, this would seem a worthwhile endeavor, allowing PCs to not get bogged down in the smaller details of micromanagement (off-loading work onto the GM?)
On a tangent, how best to implement the establishment and maintenance of trade routes and alliances with foreign powers?
Perhaps there is a simple abstraction to depict and manage these 'relationships' (vassal territories, alliances?).
I've been turning over the idea of some kind of trade route rule but haven't really had a great inspiration for implementing it. I mean, the Econ bonus from roads (and rivers, if you use that house rule) is an implicit "trade route" rule already, but I tend to think that it should probably be based around your "special resources." As in, for each one of those you have, you could establish a trade route.
How much it costs and how much it pays, that I haven't really figured out yet.
This is something I'm interested in exploring further myself. I have a PC whose shtick is to eventually unite with her homeland of Mivon (and take back Brevoy). One of the stages in her plan would involve, of course, using her contacts in Mivon and setting up special trade routes with them. I'll let you know if I think of anything, but right now it's just a desire.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I've been turning over the idea of some kind of trade route rule but haven't really had a great inspiration for implementing it. I mean, the Econ bonus from roads (and rivers, if you use that house rule) is an implicit "trade route" rule already, but I tend to think that it should probably be based around your "special resources." As in, for each one of those you have, you could establish a trade route.How much it costs and how much it pays, that I haven't really figured out yet.
In my opinion, the kingdom rules as written already assume a lot of trade between the kingdom and its neighbors.
Otherwise, the rules couldn't abstract away questions like "How does the kingdom build a house when it includes no forest hex to get the wood from?"
Sure, which is what I said in the bolded sentence above.
I'm just noodling on the idea of whether dedicated special resource trade routes should be an over-and-above option, like building Caravans in the Civilization computer games.
Sure, which is what I said in the bolded sentence above.
I'm just noodling on the idea of whether dedicated special resource trade routes should be an over-and-above option, like building Caravans in the Civilization computer games.
Yes, that way it would be a great addition!
I would think that establishing a trade relationship would use the diplomacy attitudes to describe the standing between nations. If a nation becomes "friendly" to yours, gain a +2 bonus to Economy. If they become "helpful", increase this to +4.
Roads should really be the majority of the source of trade, but a few simple modifiers such as these can make a good trade relationship worthwhile without overshadowing the growth of the kingdom as a whole. Limiting the number of trade relationships to the number of special resources controlled is also a good idea.
This is something I'm interested in exploring further myself. I have a PC whose shtick is to eventually unite with her homeland of Mivon (and take back Brevoy). One of the stages in her plan would involve, of course, using her contacts in Mivon and setting up special trade routes with them. I'll let you know if I think of anything, but right now it's just a desire.Although this may qualify as a house rule, have any considered the methods and benefits and challenges of appointing vassals to manage/rule portions of the domain on behalf of the PCs? How might this best be implemented?
For very large nations, this would seem a worthwhile endeavor, allowing PCs to not get bogged down in the smaller details of micromanagement (off-loading work onto the GM?)
On a tangent, how best to implement the establishment and maintenance of trade routes and alliances with foreign powers?
Perhaps there is a simple abstraction to depict and manage these 'relationships' (vassal territories, alliances?).
I've been turning over the idea of some kind of trade route rule but haven't really had a great inspiration for implementing it. I mean, the Econ bonus from roads (and rivers, if you use that house rule) is an implicit "trade route" rule already, but I tend to think that it should probably be based around your "special resources." As in, for each one of those you have, you could establish a trade route.
How much it costs and how much it pays, that I haven't really figured out yet.
I have a player with much the same goal but it involves uniting Mivon and Rostland under his rule then kicking the ass off whatever the other noble houses of Brevoy send against him. (Talk about upsetting the balance of power..now if only I can turn him against the church of Razmir)
I'm getting ready to begin this campaign in the next month or so but wanted a little clarification on page 13 of the players guide and 59 of vol #32. On the Kingdom sheet and under the Leadership section the Spymaster does not have an attibute listed (it only has a blank line) is there a reason for this?
Thanks.
I'm getting ready to begin this campaign in the next month or so but wanted a little clarification on page 13 of the players guide and 59 of vol #32. On the Kingdom sheet and under the Leadership section the Spymaster does not have an attibute listed (it only has a blank line) is there a reason for this?
Thanks.
My copy allows the choices of dex or intelligence.
My copy allows the choices of dex or intelligence.I'm getting ready to begin this campaign in the next month or so but wanted a little clarification on page 13 of the players guide and 59 of vol #32. On the Kingdom sheet and under the Leadership section the Spymaster does not have an attibute listed (it only has a blank line) is there a reason for this?
Thanks.
I'm bit more confused now. The attributes I'm referring to are: economy, loyality, stability, unrest/upkeep. I'm referring the "Kingdom Sheet" on page 13 of the players guide or page 59 of vol #32.
Is it blank because the Spaymaster can change the which he modifies during the improvement phase?
My copy allows the choices of dex or intelligence.I'm getting ready to begin this campaign in the next month or so but wanted a little clarification on page 13 of the players guide and 59 of vol #32. On the Kingdom sheet and under the Leadership section the Spymaster does not have an attibute listed (it only has a blank line) is there a reason for this?
Thanks.
I'm bit more confused now. The attributes I'm referring to are: economy, loyality, stability, unrest/upkeep. I'm referring the "Kingdom Sheet" on page 13 of the players guide or page 59 of vol #32.
Is it blank because the benefit can change the value he modifies during the improvement phase?
I misunderstood.
He gets to choose between loyalty, stability, or economy, and each upkeep period he can change it.edit: that should be improvement phase instead of upkeep period
My copy allows the choices of dex or intelligence.I'm getting ready to begin this campaign in the next month or so but wanted a little clarification on page 13 of the players guide and 59 of vol #32. On the Kingdom sheet and under the Leadership section the Spymaster does not have an attibute listed (it only has a blank line) is there a reason for this?
Thanks.
I'm bit more confused now. The attributes I'm referring to are: economy, loyality, stability, unrest/upkeep. I'm referring the "Kingdom Sheet" on page 13 of the players guide or page 59 of vol #32.
Is it blank because the benefit can change the value he modifies during the improvement phase?
I misunderstood.
He gets to choose between loyalty, stability, or economy, and each upkeep period he can change it.
I needed to reread the each leadership description. Thanks for the help.
How the heck do Edicts work again?
I can't seem to find any rules for them.
Cheers!
Pg. 55 describes them. Pg. 56 has a chart that shows you their effects.
Step 6 of the Improvement Phase is when you adjust them. Pg. 64
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Of course, if eveyryone's having a lot of fun, maybe that's a good reason to not change a thing!I'm pretty sure they'll end up with a large surplus of BP since there's only so much they can build a month. At that point we'll probably start thinking of alternate things to do with BP. Like adjusting their roles to maximize Loyalty in order to make large scale withdraws to purchase the items they keep rolling up like Manual of gainful exercise +1 and +2 holy bastard swords. Or maybe withdrawing BP to purchase resurrections due to the likes of centipede infested shambling mounds. At that point their crazy production will slow down.
Out of curiosity, what do you use to roll magic items? I seem to recall the Pathfinder Core Rulebook wasn't as good for random items as the DMG was...
Just the Random Magic Item table. Then I flip to the page for the random table of that magic item type and if it calls for a spell I turn to a random page in the Spells section. First spell I find of the right level is the one they get.
If they get a magic weapon or armor I actually use the random item table from the DMG to figure out what they get.
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Just the Random Magic Item table. Then I flip to the page for the random table of that magic item type and if it calls for a spell I turn to a random page in the Spells section. First spell I find of the right level is the one they get.
If they get a magic weapon or armor I actually use the random item table from the DMG to figure out what they get.
Same here. Was just curious, I've mostly kept my DMG around for that purpose.
I'm working on converting those tables to Excel. Maybe I'll figure out how to create an item generator with them when I'm done. I really only work on it when the group is busy talking amongst themselves about whether to search the trapped door or break it down.
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Not the most elegant thing in the world, but does the trick if you just need to crank out items quickly.
http://www.dinglesgames.com/tools/TreasureGenerator/dnd35/
Just put the CR somewhere in the mid-ranges, and hit "Generate" a few times.
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I have one stupid question - when do you need to clear a hex? Is it if you want to build a city there, or is it if you want to build anything there, even a road or a farm? I know you need to explore the hex, clear it of foes and spend 1 BP to claim it, but can you then just build a road/farm/whaever there, or do you have to spend the BP and the month(s) to clear it first?
That's if you want to start a city there.
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The more I read the kingdom rules, the more disappointed I am by the total uselessness of forests. Makes you wonder what all the trouble with the lads in Sherwood was about IRL. I suspect that one reason they got downplayed is that nowadays, most players and GMs, if they cook at all, do so with invisible fuels like electricity or piped gas, rather than dung, wood, or charcoal. If anyone else is bothered by this, I'd suggest letting forests with roads in them contribute one point towards Consumption (half a farm). That way you break even on claiming them.
Is there any rules reason not to do this? And if not, exactly why are elves willing to fight to protect these barren wastelands, and why do humans bother to try and exploit them? Are the humans so young and stupid that they know no better? Are the elves as leafy-minded as bloody-minded dragons that need their shiny hoards?
Swamps, deserts and tundra I can see as being net costs.
As for mountains and how dwarves or anything manages to subsist in the underdark, I figure they work off an alternate food chain. One where lichens and fungi are not so much lithavores as they are neutrinosynthesizers.
I am planning on using the KM rules for a Rise of the Runelords campaign and the kingdom's starting location (Turtleback Ferry) is exclusively surrounded by forest, swamp, lakes and mountains for a very long distance so I have this problem too. My solution was to expand the definition of "Farm" and make all of the non-mountain hexes farm-able but to up the BP cost to do so:
2BP - Grassland4BP - Hills or Lake Front/Coastal (requires a pier in an adjoining city hex, representing it being "farmed" for fish, seaweed etc.)
6BP - Swamp (rice paddies, fishing)
8BP - Forest (hunting, logging, bee keeping, orchards, mushroom gathering, whatever an elf eats)
I suppose you could add dwarf agriculture in the mountains for a price too but I intend to keep mu PCs kingdom hedged back.
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The more I read the kingdom rules, the more disappointed I am by the total uselessness of forests. Makes you wonder what all the trouble with the lads in Sherwood was about IRL. I suspect that one reason they got downplayed is that nowadays, most players and GMs, if they cook at all, do so with invisible fuels like electricity or piped gas, rather than dung, wood, or charcoal. If anyone else is bothered by this, I'd suggest letting forests with roads in them contribute one point towards Consumption (half a farm). That way you break even on claiming them.
Is there any rules reason not to do this? And if not, exactly why are elves willing to fight to protect these barren wastelands, and why do humans bother to try and exploit them? Are the humans so young and stupid that they know no better? Are the elves as leafy-minded as bloody-minded dragons that need their shiny hoards?
Swamps, deserts and tundra I can see as being net costs.
As for mountains and how dwarves or anything manages to subsist in the underdark, I figure they work off an alternate food chain. One where lichens and fungi are not so much lithavores as they are neutrinosynthesizers.
I am planning on using the KM rules for a Rise of the Runelords campaign and the kingdom's starting location (Turtleback Ferry) is exclusively surrounded by forest, swamp, lakes and mountains for a very long distance so I have this problem too. My solution was to expand the definition of "Farm" and make all of the non-mountain hexes farm-able but to up the BP cost to do so:
2BP - Grassland
4BP - Hills or Lake Front/Coastal (requires a pier in an adjoining city hex, representing it being "farmed" for fish, seaweed etc.)
6BP - Swamp (rice paddies, fishing)
8BP - Forest (hunting, logging, bee keeping, orchards, mushroom gathering, whatever an elf eats)I suppose you could add dwarf agriculture in the mountains for a price too but I intend to keep mu PCs kingdom hedged back.
As a note, why isn't logging available in forest? Give it the exact same rules as farming, but instead it produces BP through gathering resources instead of food. Perhaps make it 1 BP/turn instead of -2 consumption, so its profitable even after you have no consumption thanks to farming.