My experience with electronic devices, laptops, tablets, iPhones, and all of the rest has been bad...all of the things pointed out by the OP has happened. As such I enforce a ban of no digital media at the table. It got protested by everyone. My response? I said fine, you don't like it, then one of you can run the game now, I won't and I won't be a player at the table as long as you have digital media...here's the notes on the session and what was to come down the line for the campaign, enjoy. Fallout from this? I still run the game, lost one player who can't keep his damned thumbs from texting - CALL THE <CENSORED>ING PERSON!!! This is one table rule I absolutely will not budge on. Keeps my gaming options limited, but it's the prcie I am willing to pay to avoid the digital widgets. It's a table-top PEN AND PAPER RPG game, not a video game. I apologize if this sounds harsh, but the efficiency of digital media is very frustrating at the gaming table for me. There are enough copies of dead tree books at the table that sharing isn't an issue.
+infinity
One of my players used a laptop in the last campaign I recently ran. I didn't mind it so much, as he was very helpful with looking up rules issues and errata, clarification, etc. It was like having a cybernetic rules lawyer at my beck and call.
But, I did have 2 issues with it. Simple issues, and likely not a problem for everyone, but these did bug me:
1. It took up too much space on the table. I realize that an average laptop is not much bigger than an open book, but books can be moved around more easily, and put away, off the table whn not in use. This player's laptop had to remain open at all times, as his character info and PDF's were all on there. I constantly had to wedge our battlemat around the thing and it just made things more difficult than they would be if had just had a sheet and a book.
This, however, isn't an issue in the other group I play with, as their table is fricken' huge; you can easily sit 8-10 people around it. Unfortunately, for the game I ran, we did not have his table.
2. Temptation of distraction. This really goes for any electronic device with web access, such as iPod, smartphones, etc. Undoubtedly, someone at the table has seen something funny on the web since our last session that they just HAVE to show everybody. That, or as the player is looking game stuff up for what's going on, it's too easy to get sidetracked, "checking Facebook real quick. It'll only take a second. Ooh, gotta check my email. Hey have you heard the new song from _____?"
This didn't happen very often, but really, it doesn't take many incursions to derail a game and shatter immersion for all involved.
YMMV.
I'll fess up to texting at the table. I'm only returning texts from my wife, however, and it never detracts me from the game. I can answer texts and state what I'm doing during my turn without slowing anything down. Also, I try to keep the texting to a minimum at best, and remind my wife fairly often to keep it to a minimum as well.
But, I've had other players who can't multi-task and drag the game down with texting. I had one player who absolutely cannot handle more than one task at the same time, I doubt they could walk and chew gum to be honest. They would be texting, meanwhile their turn would come up, and they'd have absolutely no idea what was going on in game. The entire situation would be repeated, multiple times, over the course of the night. It was infuriating.
So, given both sides of the experience, I don't ban texting at my table. But, the moment it becomes a problem and detracts from the game, something will be said. If it continues, they will be asked to tone it down or leave.
I have hard copies as much as possible, but I definitely depend on my Kindle Fire for spells and stuff.
I'll fess up to texting at the table. I'm only returning texts from my wife, however, and it never detracts me from the game. I can answer texts and state what I'm doing during my turn without slowing anything down. Also, I try to keep the texting to a minimum at best, and remind my wife fairly often to keep it to a minimum as well.
Even if it doesn't distract you, does it distract other people?
Not to single you out, but since you've mentioned it, I want to ask a real life example.
If I'm running a game and I see someone tapping away at their smartphone rather than listening to me as GM while I'm sharing something important, I find it both distracting and frustrating that the player APPEARS to be not listening to me (there's no way I can tell if they really are).
Likewise, I'm a player in a game right now where one of the players is constantly texting other people and I find it really hard to concentrate on the game when she's got the device out--partly because she comments on the texts she receives, but still. I have ADD so any kind of distracting motion or thing that draws focus away from the game table can jolt my immersion in a second.
I'm just wondering if you've asked if other people are okay with it. Because stuff like using electronic devices--it's not just about whether you are able to pay attention, it's also about how your actions affect other people's ability to pay attention.
I can understand needing to communicate with your wife of course, but I'm curious about the social contract established during the game that makes such things acceptable or unacceptable.
I'll fess up to texting at the table. I'm only returning texts from my wife, however, and it never detracts me from the game. I can answer texts and state what I'm doing during my turn without slowing anything down. Also, I try to keep the texting to a minimum at best, and remind my wife fairly often to keep it to a minimum as well.
Even if it doesn't distract you, does it distract other people?
Not to single you out, but since you've mentioned it, I want to ask a real life example...
Not that I'm aware of. When I do respond, I hold my phone below the table, I keep my text short(1-3 words usually), and I never do so while the DM is talking.
If this is somehow still distracting, I've heard nothing of it. Also, I currently have 2 members of my family in the hospital, one of which has cancer, and my wife is 8 and a half months pregnant. This is undoubtedly an exception and not standard, however. But right now, if I get a message in the middle of anything, I'm answering it.
|
I understand the usefulness of laptops and tablets and smart phones.
At home in Vermont, most of the friends i invite into my home to play a game I am running, or to to run a game at my apartment don't have laptops or ipads/tablets. Everyone has a phone that can text.
While i have been living for a few months down here in Raleigh NC, and I am playing Pathfinder Society Organized Play games in local stores, I find at times, I am the only player with a backpack full of books. Most everyone else has an Ipad, others have laptops.
While walking around the store, past other tables, where a game is being run (D&D Pathfinder others) i have seen people doing everything from surfing the web, poking around on face book, to even playing world of warcraft (on a laptop).
I don't know what people have been doing at the tables I have been at, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people are doing what i have seen at other tables.
At home, I am planning to do two things when I run games. The first is to turn off my wireless internet access. The second think i am planning to do is to institute a "basket" policy, and have people put their cell phones in a basket which will be placed on a side table for the duration of the game. The basket will be with in easy reach so if someone calls, their phones will be easily accessable. The point is, if they want to text or use their phone, they will have to get up and leave the table to do so.
Anyways, at home the electronic devices haven't been a distraction yet, but those are some possible solutions.
just some thoughts.
|
Would it be any more distracting that say someone doing needlepoint? Doing sewing, doing knitting?
How about someone who has their nose in a journal trying to keep track of everything. Personal I see a good in this and I do this also on laptop as well as a person writing it in a book
I've had all three of those in my group and I found it 100X more distracting than a laptop. But I also had a female gamer that texted all the time. She was GF of a player and now both are gone. her because she moved. Him because he could not keep in email contact and do it promptly even.
Had another player that drew manga all of the time
Funny how most of the guys I came with said most females they gamed with did something like needlepoint, or knitting.
On the person that did needlepoint she would interrupt the DM as they where describing something. I found that disrupting.
Now I will say IF someone at the table had a laptop and was playing a game while playing Pathfinder, I'd get annoyed as a player and a DM. There is no room for that. And I can say on of the guys in our group has another group he plays with. He says the smartphone thing is annoying with texting, but those of us in my group that use tech, he has no issue with. A lot of it comes down the the maturity level and age.
If someone was taking notes on there laptop it might be different. I did use my laptop when gaming tabletop once and I had it behind me for the most part and only turned around to look up rules I don't think it was that distracting. The problem only becomes if it is between you.
I use a laptop because I cannot afford physical copies of most books, and I write all my adventure content on a computer. I am not printing all that out. It's a pretty small laptop, almost a netbook, so it doesn't get in the way. I would feel pretty hypocritical if I kept others from using theirs, so I have one other person at the table who uses one.
Cell phones I do have a problem with, so I turn mine off when I get to the table. However, everybody else always seems to have a "good excuse" for having theirs on and answering every text and phone call they get.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
As a player, I use a small netbook for Herolab. Particuarly in a high-level game, it makes keeping track of buffs easier and overall speeds up play.
As a GM, I state clearly up front in the table rules: Laptops and tablet PCs are welcome at the table for game use--but please don't let them be a distraction to yourself or other players. Players are highly encouraged to make use of d20pfsrd.com as a rules reference.
I've never had a problem with electronics being a distraction, but also, I never repeat myself to the players. If they didn't catch something the first time because they were distracted, they had better ask somebody.
My experience with electronic devices, laptops, tablets, iPhones, and all of the rest has been bad...all of the things pointed out by the OP has happened. As such I enforce a ban of no digital media at the table. It got protested by everyone. My response? I said fine, you don't like it, then one of you can run the game now, I won't and I won't be a player at the table as long as you have digital media...here's the notes on the session and what was to come down the line for the campaign, enjoy. Fallout from this? I still run the game, lost one player who can't keep his damned thumbs from texting - CALL THE <CENSORED>ING PERSON!!! This is one table rule I absolutely will not budge on. Keeps my gaming options limited, but it's the prcie I am willing to pay to avoid the digital widgets. It's a table-top PEN AND PAPER RPG game, not a video game. I apologize if this sounds harsh, but the efficiency of digital media is very frustrating at the gaming table for me. There are enough copies of dead tree books at the table that sharing isn't an issue.
This post is worrying on like eight different levels.
I'm seeing the misattributation of blame on electronic devices rather than the players' willingness to be attentive (which itself needs to be more deeply examined, and for which cries of, "If you're not paying attention all the time you shouldn't be playing!" are almost as near-sighted).
I'm seeing this misattribution morph into an ultimatum that caused you to lose a player.
I'm seeing an aversion to texting in general, which is just weird in this day and age.
I'm seeing the false equivocation of digital aids at the table with playing a video game, which is ridiculous when examined for more than five seconds, not to mention pointlessly closed-minded; what makes a tabletop roleplaying game awesome isn't the fact that it can be played around a physical table. It's the fact that you can escape into an adventure with a bunch of your friends for a few hours.
And it's especially worrisome that a number of people seem to agree with the views expressed above.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Why does it worry you that people you don't game with do things differently?
Hrmm.
I think you could play pathfinder on the floor of the kitchen and make a battlemat with magnets on the fridge if you wanted to. Wow that seems sort of awesome I wonder if anyone has ever done that.
I think you could play pathfinder on the floor of the kitchen and make a battlemat with magnets on the fridge if you wanted to. Wow that seems sort of awesome I wonder if anyone has ever done that.
Reminds me that my first battlemat was a 70's checkered tablecloth, with whatever remotely figurine-looking pawns we could find in the house. BBEG was a saltshaker, generic baddies were travel-pack plastic chess pieces...
I think its just a matter of who you are gaming with.
My table started out with maybe 1 guy having a computer and in the 2 or so years since we've been on this AP now *everyone* has a computer at the table.
I'm the last guy with paper at the table really and even then I bring a tiny laptop computer to receive IM's from the DM as needed. (so much better than note passing, btw.) And also for looking up rules and such.
Not to say that folks don't browse the web when it isn't their turn in combat and such but its easy enough to keep track of combat and use google that it hasn't really been a problem that I've noticed. However, no one (that I've seen) is actively playing games or some other attention-sucking activity.
I could definately see other games being different though.. and sometimes I do miss the rustle of paper :)
-S
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
With the Asus/Google Nexus 7 tablet the officially debuted just today, it looks like very viable and welcome replacement for lugging around the tens of pounds of Pathfinder and 3.x books to gaming sessions. Must find out the going rate on slaad blood plasma...
If a player is being disruptive at the table, then I have a problem with the player not the "enabler" (laptop, cellphone, food, smoking, etc.). If the player isn't there first-and-foremost to play the game, then they should go elsewhere. If they can act like a considerate adult, then it can stay.
Yeah, the aversion to texting is changing on a societal level.
I went to a small venue concert the other day. During a song where one musician didn't have a part, he clearly took out his phone and either took a photo or video and sent it to someone... from on stage.
Neil deGrasse Tyson paused a speech to send a tweet at the U of W, Madison a couple weeks ago.
Why does it worry you that people you don't game with do things differently?
Concern can come from a number of angles. Am I concerned that their playstyle will somehow influence my home game in the immediate future? Not at all; that would be silly.
But if that attitude is indicative of a widespread aversion to the digital evolution of the hobby (to say nothing of counterproductive scapegoating) then it paints a less-than-rosy picture of the path that roleplaying games will grow along, or even whether they will grow at all. A strict adherence to the mindset that roleplaying is only valid if it involves actual pens, actual papers, and actual tables means that the hobby will fade into history as each of those fade themselves. We need to get over the juvenile idea that what makes pen-and-paper tabletop gaming special or valid is the "pen-and-paper" part.
We now use Netbooks and Ipads at the table. I find that having litterally ALL the ressources needed just one click away is saving huge time on rule/monster searching (and not to mention prep time for me, the DM). I also use my netbook to store/play ambiance music; No more fiddling with 3000 CDs!!
On the other hand, and although it doesn't happen often, it does bug the hell out of me when players are showing each other online pics from the avengers movie or unrelated Youtube stuff... Even if I "paused" the game for a few seconds to go to the bathroom or fetch a drink, you come back and the attention is elswhere.
But I don't want to start blocking sites... We're 40-ish. lol
Utradan
I'm seeing an aversion to texting in general, which is just weird in this day and age.
You'd be surprised how many people just can't stand texting.
Disliking texting is one of the tamer of the "weird in this day and age" things that I do.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm seeing an aversion to texting in general, which is just weird in this day and age.
Not really. Try speaking to a room where you have a number of repeat offenders who think that just because their phone is under the table, you can't see them text. They then get offended when you ask them to please put the phone away and pay attention.
You get tired of phones in general real fast.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't, personally, for any kind of actual conversation. Drives me nuts - if someone wants to talk to me for more than a sentence or two, they're holding a freakin' phone, call me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I should clarify. I'm not anti-texting because I'm a luddite who fears the spread of the devil-spawned technology beast. I think the fact that I'm posting this on the internet should prove that. I'm anti-texting because I am a substitute teacher at the high school level. Tell a sophomore to put their iPhone away for the 45 minute class, and they'll give you the same look as if you told a wizard to kill their familiar. So you'll forgive me for the ingrained reaction that texting = inconsiderate.
I'm in favor of texting for the purpose of "too busy to take this now but I can see what they needed without going to voicemail and answer at my leisure." However, I see on a daily basis that the need to text is less "I have a relative in danger of dying can I take this" and more "ugh did you SEE what she was wearing lol r u goin to prom"
If you've family issues, tell the table. They'll understand. But if you're just texting to text because you can't wait an hour to ask who won American Idol, don't be surprised when the table jumps you and decides to see exactly where that slim little smartphone can fit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm seeing an aversion to texting in general, which is just weird in this day and age.You'd be surprised how many people just can't stand texting.
Disliking texting is one of the tamer of the "weird in this day and age" things that I do.
+1
texting is just as rude, if less intrusive, as having a conversation on the phone, or watching TV, or reading a comic book etc while you are with another person. I agree that it can be part of the expected interaction (such as reading the newspaper at the restaurant with friends or coworker) or part of the social event altogether (like going to the pub to watch the hockey game) but it most situations, it's just obnoxious and rude.
The sad part about this age is that because we can easily be in contact with others at distance, be forget to be respectful to those that are immediately around us :( What is done massively by users isn't necessarily ethical.
Back on the subject, technology can be both a tool and a distraction, there's no denying of it. It's not different from phones, TVs, comic books, i-pods etc. It even bothers me when someone is browsing RPG books for cool new feats or nice pics during the game; I prefer when this is done before the game or when we take a break. Same goes for texting, sending e-mails, browsing forums and making phone calls. I don't mind taking breaks if it means a better attention from all during the game...
My personal experience with a laptop has been non-conclusive. I can find info in physical book rather easily and when I can't (because of crappy index or something), launching a word or subject search isn't necessarily much faster either. I can pass the book around the table easier than my laptop, but I feel that this is going to change with tablets or readers. The laptop's biggest advantage is that I don't have to carry so many physical books, and having multiple windows open is marginally easier to navigate than having multiple markers in the monster manual. All in all, the laptop has been practical but not indispensable.
I have a felling that tablets and readers (as I have none atm) will change my mind about tech at the table.
'findel
I also find texting while playing in a solo game even worse the fewer players because I think you should pay attention during when the gm is moving npcs because if I ask for a will save I don't want to ask multiple times. How is talking to distracted people fun?
I have yet to encounter an electronic device as easy to use as an actual book. With a book, I can flip pages a couple times and be right at what I'm looking for. The ONLY thing I can think of that would be quicker on a device is when I have no idea where what I'm looking for is located: typing into a search is likely faster than skimming the index.
Still. I don't like reading off of a screen.
This is a personal issue, not an indictment of electronics.
If people are ONLY using electronics as book substitutes (hah!) I wouldn't really care. But they aren't. They're watching videos, and playing other games, and generally wasting their AND MY time. Which is where I start to take issue with the presence of electronics at the gaming table.
|
|
It’s a pencil & paper RPG, and for the longest time I held out against any electronic interference. Thankfully a good decision and some respectful players helped out. As DM, I do have a laptop off to the side. I have the PRD and Combat Manager up to be able to access some rules quickly. It’s made quite a difference. I also occasionally use it to play some music or sound effects, but 95% of my attention is still on the players and the table.
The players don’t use laptops or smart phones, with two exceptions. In two different groups the spellcasters each use a smart phone or tablet, respectively, and keep their powers and spells handy to look up. It has helped the game move along quite well. Otherwise these tools are put down on the table and they see no other use. They are aware the attention should be on the game. The books still see plenty of use all around.
To me that’s an acceptable compromise to just outlawing such devices altogether.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have yet to encounter an electronic device as easy to use as an actual book. With a book, I can flip pages a couple times and be right at what I'm looking for. The ONLY thing I can think of that would be quicker on a device is when I have no idea where what I'm looking for is located: typing into a search is likely faster than skimming the index.
Just curious: have you ever used Kyle Olson's Combat Manager? (combatmanager.com) . It has a spell, feat, and monster rule lookup system that IS easier to access than a book in my personal experience, precisely for what you say. You can type into a search and get it, rather than try to remember which book something is in and flip through to get it. Plus the actual combat management with the initiative tracking and everything.
Obviously if it ain't your thang, it ain't your thang, but I was just wondering. I am largely with you at least as far as I find game .pdfs very difficult to read and follow. I get them with subscriptions or buy them for reference in a pinch in case I don't have room to carry all my books, but I find them MUCH harder to access than the hard copy. Paizo's pdfs in particular since they are just the hard copies in digital form, their layout is optimized for print, not the screen.
If people are ONLY using electronics as book substitutes (hah!) I wouldn't really care. But they aren't. They're watching videos, and playing other games, and generally wasting their AND MY time. Which is where I start to take issue with the presence of electronics at the gaming table.
Then it's time to have a talk to them as to why they are not interested in paying attention to the game, and disregarding/not caring about how much time it takes for you as a GM to prepare a session.
If you allow any Paizo book for spells, my tablet app will find the spell in about the same amount of time it takes to remember which book you even need to open.
I use an Ipad app for my library, but otherwise I use dice and pen/paper. I just don't want to lug a half ton of books around. Plus the search function is nice.
|
If you allow any Paizo book for spells, my tablet app will find the spell in about the same amount of time it takes to remember which book you even need to open.Which app is that?
I use this one.
I use one called Spells. Don't know how to link it on my iPad. Searching for 'pathfinder spells' it turns up, the one with some sort of winged creature as the icon. $0.99
|
|
If people are ONLY using electronics as book substitutes (hah!) I wouldn't really care. But they aren't. They're watching videos, and playing other games, and generally wasting their AND MY time. Which is where I start to take issue with the presence of electronics at the gaming table.
In the games I run and play in, tablets, notebooks, and smartphones are used only as game aids. I actually had more of a problem with a distracted player that was bringing her students' papers in and grading them during the game -- no electronics involved there.
DQ: this isn't happening at a game I run, because I don't let people use that... stuff. I'm being irritated by it in a game I'm playing. It gets tiresome having to recap everything that just happened in the round since PC x's last turn... multiple times, as there are 3 offenders... one of them seriously EVERY time.
The GM tells people to pay attention, but is lousy at enforcement on taking timely turns.
Sigh.
And, no, I haven't used the program you mentioned. Couldn't if I would at the moment, since my only device is an old HP Tablet which can't recognise how to open anything not designed for it. And nothing's designed for it. >shrug<
My campaigns only use CRB and APG, so it really isn't hard knowing where to look for things; and you got it in one -- it's really not my thang.
:-)