Buying a farm from 22x22 to 24x24 is $500,000.
(Those are Farmville prices.)
:)
So it's a deserted farm, which tells me there's no one to contest it... squatter rights apply? Just move in and it's yours.
until the local lord sir fluffy pants say thanks for all your hard work but begone. I have the title and the pedegree so my word is law.
These days, undeveloped land is pretty cheap in rural areas.
You can probably get it for ~5-10 gp/ acre.
The house probably adds 30-50 gp.
(OK, figure a person earns ~ 1sp/ day or 365 sp/ year. Average cheap house today in rural areas is about 1 year's salary: $30-50K. So, a cheap, 2 room hovel is about 1 years salary or 200-500 sp, or 20 - 30 gp).
Double or triple those costs for city dwellings. And more for more rooms and amenities.
gigglestick, your figures make sense to me, but your urban estimate anyway is way below the prices for urban property given in the Guide to Korvosa. I don't have the Guide with me, but I'm pretty sure prices were in the the thousands and tens of thousands of gp. The prices didn't even make sense given the monthly rents they proposed. So either land is way more expensive v. the average wage, or another tragic flaw in the Guide to Korvosa is revealed.
I would probably price a 4-5 acre farm with house at a couple hundred gp. If the parents aren't incompetent and are still able to work, I'd charge them a 5-20 gp per month for the first year and then assume they could make a subsistence living after that.
I usually charge 1 gp per square foot, but that's for city residences, castles, and dungeons. I would assume that if its rural land all you would need is the permission or good favor of the local lord. He might be willing to allow you to live on the land as long as you pay taxes or might make a gift of land to an adventurer who promises to help the townguard or to root out nasty beasts.
I would say that a farmhouse might cost half as much so 500 for a 1,000 square foot 10x10. Maybe my numbers are wonky, but its just a rule of thumb.
Comparing modern prices isn't a good basis for pre-industrial revolution land ownership. 1sp a day probably wouldn't translate into a minimum wage job in the US.
In order to buy land you really want to become nobility. This would likely cost hundreds of thousands of gp. At the minimum you'd approach a noble who has a farmstead and lease the land for the next 100 years for 10k gold.
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So it's a deserted farm, which tells me there's no one to contest it... squatter rights apply? Just move in and it's yours.until the local lord sir fluffy pants say thanks for all your hard work but begone. I have the title and the pedegree so my word is law.
This is Varisia. And probably Western Varisia. Those "I'm a lordy lord who lords it over everyone" jerks are found only around Korvosa in the East, if at all.
Plus, you can always go "I see your title and raise you a epic level party".
Or "Oh yeah? You're the local lord? I'm the frikking lord of frikking Xin-Shalast."
How much does a farm cost to purchase? What about monthly costs to maintain?
Shortest answer:
Doesn't exist. You will need to make up the costs based on the (probably implicit) economy suitable for your particular game and group.Next answer:
Wait for Kingmaker #2 to get a good idea of basic dominion rules and fit in from there.
Other answer:
Use an existing source, such as the dominion rules from the old OD&D Companion ruleset or a d20 source such as Fields of Blood (Eden) or Classic Play: Strongholds & Dynasties (Mongoose).
gigglestick, your figures make sense to me, but your urban estimate anyway is way below the prices for urban property given in the Guide to Korvosa. I don't have the Guide with me, but I'm pretty sure prices were in the the thousands and tens of thousands of gp. The prices didn't even make sense given the monthly rents they proposed. So either land is way more expensive v. the average wage, or another tragic flaw in the Guide to Korvosa is revealed.
I would probably price a 4-5 acre farm with house at a couple hundred gp. If the parents aren't incompetent and are still able to work, I'd charge them a 5-20 gp per month for the first year and then assume they could make a subsistence living after that.
I had a bit of a problem with some of the pricing in the Guide to Korvosa (and a few of the other books that had urban pricing). I think some of it may have been done to keep players from buying up huge tracts of land in the city, but realisticly, what would urban houseing really cost. Based on the prevailing wage in the city?
Does a house cost as much as a magic weapon?
Korvosa is a city... Land is limited, and owned at a premium.
I hate to use real world examples, but an apartment in NYC costs a lot more than a similar apt in Podunk, Ohio.
For a farm in the hinterlands? Who owns it? If it's unowned, then these aren't the times of titles and land deeds. Let them move in and when the tax collector comes see if he notices the hand giving him his taxes is not the one that did it last year.
Any money spent would be to rebuild the farm house/barn/ etc.
That's my 2cp
I had a bit of a problem with some of the pricing in the Guide to Korvosa (and a few of the other books that had urban pricing). I think some of it may have been done to keep players from buying up huge tracts of land in the city, but realisticly, what would urban houseing really cost. Based on the prevailing wage in the city?
Does a house cost as much as a magic weapon?
gigglestick, Agreed on the Guide pricing. It's pretty hard to swallow sometimes. I think you nailed the reason too. I only brought it up because it was the only real-estate pricing I had from a source.
Should a magic weapon cost as much as a house? Should a masterwork weapon? This is making my head hurt.
Korvosa is a city... Land is limited, and owned at a premium.
I hate to use real world examples, but an apartment in NYC costs a lot more than a similar apt in Podunk, Ohio.
For a farm in the hinterlands? Who owns it? If it's unowned, then these aren't the times of titles and land deeds. Let them move in and when the tax collector comes see if he notices the hand giving him his taxes is not the one that did it last year.
Any money spent would be to rebuild the farm house/barn/ etc.
That's my 2cp
You're certainly right that land will be less expensive in the country.
But in a "medieval" setting the ratio will be less than in a modern one because, unless you're setting up a magic factory, the economic gain from urban land won't be so vastly greater than from rural land. New York is $100s or $1000s per square foot because you can throw up a sky-scraper and charge many people and businesses rent.
Creative Director
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The game has an economy that's based pretty much SOLELY around magic items. As a result, things that are expensive but aren't magic items are always going to be weird; either a house is going to be so expensive that no farmer could ever afford one, or it's going to be so cheap that every PC can buy one at 2nd level, it seems. Which is why, for the most part, the game ignores things like that.
In the Kingmaker adventure path, we solve the problem by basically inventing a new type of currency: the build point. These are what are used to build farms and houses and the like; there's a correlation between build points and gold, but it's not really a 1 to 1 relationship since build points function as a combination of gold, tools, time, talent, and other factors needed to build structures.
For most games, though, if you want to enter the topsy-turvy world of real estate, my suggestion is that houses and farms and structures should be priced realistically, so that, say, a farmer WOULD be able to afford one after many years of work. This means that you could, basically, buy a bunch of farms with a +3 sword, but that's kinda cool too...
This means that you could, basically, buy a bunch of farms with a +3 sword, but that's kinda cool too...
But what farmer would take that in trade? LOL
I just had my PCs buy the house in Sandpoint that the goblin hid in after the raid. I charged 200gp for it, but I felt that might have been a bit high for the town. The reason I charged that much is the mayor is sending it to the family to help them through their ordeal.
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Technically in this section of Varisia, it seems to me that apart of the area immediately surrounding one of the towns or cities, if you can hold it and defend it, its your land. Neither Sandpoint nor Magnimar really have the armed might to venture out too far to enforce their rule of outlying lands. Now if you alienate all your neighbors in the process, you might find it hard to buy supplies or have your supplies shipped into your new farm/settlement/fort. This implies that you will probably have to work with any nearby existing settlements.
I would think it would be in Sandpoint's best interest security, food, and commerce wise to have those outlying areas well-maintained as a source of income and to act as a buffer between the town and the wilderness lands. Anything extra, like taxes or the like they can get out of it is a bonus. Mayor Deverin or the farmer's collective would likely try to claim ownership of any abandoned or available farmlands, but would most likely be willing to sell it cheaply to anyone willing to fix up and maintain the buildings and work the land, as long as they agreed to become part of the collective or become taxpaying citizens of Sandpoint, depending on who has more weight and authority in your game.
As a player, I would argue that an abandoned farm is undesirable because it could serve as a hideout for bandits or monsters, it generates no revenue, and leaves a weak link in the defenses of neighboring farms. As a DM, it would make a nice RPing opportunity to have the players negotiate with the farmers collective or Sandpoint council to be vetted to take over the farm, especially if they are not a local or likely prospect to be a farmer.
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Interestingly enough, in my game, the party never got as far as considering taking over a farm, because they did so much to defend the roads and outlying farms (side trek advetures and wandering monsters outside town)from threats, that the farmers collective petitioned the Sandpoint council to offer the party paid jobs as a scouting force for the town. Anything in the town the sheriff and deputies take care of, anything outside, is the responsibility of the scouts.
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This is a list I believe I found on the wotc forums ages back. I dont claim ownership, or even know where it originated. However, I use it fairly regularly in my games when a PC decides to build a tavern, a farm, or what-have-you. As always, the weird dnd economics means this applies to adventurers, with their own special economy and are outsourcing all levels of work. :P
FOUNDATION
Compacted Earth, 5x5 ft1gp
Brick or Adobe, 5x5 ft 3gp
WALLS
Thatched, 5x8 ft 2gp
Adobe, 5x8 ft 4gp
Cob, 5x8 ft 6gp
Timber, 5x8 ft 8gp
Log, 5x8 ft 20gp
Stone, 5x8 ft 40gp
Shifting, 10x10 ft 1000gp
DOORS
Wooden, Interior, 3x7 ft 2gp
Wooden, Exterior, 3x7 ft 4gp
Wooden, Reinforced, 3x7 5gp
Stone or Iron, 3x7 ft 10gp
Trap Floor, 3x3 ft x2
Secret Door, 3x7 ft x5
WINDOWS
Standard 5sp/sq ft
Barred 1gp/sq ft
Shutters (made to fit) 5sp per set
ROOF/FLOOR
Thatched roof, 5sq ft 1gp
Wooden, 5sq ft 2gp
Tile or Stone, 5sq ft 5gp
STAIRS (3ft wide, 10ft ascent)
Wooden 10gp
Stone 30gp
Circular x2
FIREPLACES
Stone Hearth 15gp
Cookfire (firepit w/metal) 5gp
Extended Chimney 5gp per floor
FENCES
Earthen Bern, 5x4 ft 2sp
Ha-ha, 5x4 ft 5sp
Post and Rail,5x4 ft 5sp
Wattle, 5x4 ft 1gp
Retaining Wall, 5x4 ft 2gp
Dry-Stone Barrier, 5x4 ft 2gp
Wood Stockade, 5x4 ft 3gp
Stone Wall, 5x4 ft 10gp
OTHER
Masterwork Artisanship x2gp
Interior Furnishings Varies, Craft skill
The game has an economy that's based pretty much SOLELY around magic items. As a result, things that are expensive but aren't magic items are always going to be weird; either a house is going to be so expensive that no farmer could ever afford one, or it's going to be so cheap that every PC can buy one at 2nd level, it seems. Which is why, for the most part, the game ignores things like that.
In the Kingmaker adventure path, we solve the problem by basically inventing a new type of currency: the build point. These are what are used to build farms and houses and the like; there's a correlation between build points and gold, but it's not really a 1 to 1 relationship since build points function as a combination of gold, tools, time, talent, and other factors needed to build structures.
For most games, though, if you want to enter the topsy-turvy world of real estate, my suggestion is that houses and farms and structures should be priced realistically, so that, say, a farmer WOULD be able to afford one after many years of work. This means that you could, basically, buy a bunch of farms with a +3 sword, but that's kinda cool too...
Thanks for the response.
I don't have a problem with PCs buying houses at 2nd level though. It just gives them more reason to protect and defend thier neighbors.
And a place to stick all that wierd stuff they find.
I imagine property value goes down when you live in a place filled with ogres eating your horses, goblins eating your children and fey messing with your farm for kicks. There are very few things more difficult than being a homesteading peasant in a fantasy world. 1% of the time a varisia peasant goes to his field there is a dragon of its terrain type chilling on it. At least according to the RoTRL encounter table. Give the land to anyone brave/dumb enough to try and farm it maybe.