Demogorgon killed in Wat Dagon is not really dead

[okorimbo]

A demon lord killed on his/her/its native plane is officially dead. If killed on a different plane, then he/she/it is reborn on his/her/its native plane and is forbidden to leave for a long number of years. Right?

Wat Dagon is described as a pocket dimension, not really Demogorgon's home turf. Being killed there (where the adventure assumes you fight and kill him) is not permanent. Right?

Anyone else come across this problem?

[Erevis Cale]

AP does mention that Demogorgon will be spontaneously reborn by the will of the Abyss, but I imagine that Iggwilv collecting his soul in Tuerny's Flask has something to do with him not returning anytime soon.

[Orthos]

As Erevis said, the AP points out that the Abyss might choose to re-create him. But there's a handful of things that make it not really matter if he's perma-dead or not.

1 - He's lost the crown of Prince of Demons, and all the status that entails. Much of his forces will have scattered or defected, and he'll have to rebuild his might from the ground up.

2 - Iggwilv taking some of his essence will make the "new" Demogorgon possibly weaker than the original. This of course is up to your DM.

3 - He's lost the claim to be undefeated. Never before has Demogorgon lost a battle. Now he's been toppled not only by mortals, celestials, and his enemy fiends combined, but on his home turf.

He may not be out, but he certainly is down, and it will be long before he can rebuild - if ever - from such a crushing blow.

[Luna eladrin]

You can always rule that some of his enemies (e.g. Orcus or Iggwilv) go to Wat Dagon and magically gather the essence of Demogorgon in order to keep it somewhere safe. A new prince of demons would not want Demogorgon returning any time soon.

[Matthew Vincent]

okorimbo wrote:

A demon lord killed on his/her/its native plane is officially dead. If killed on a different plane, then he/she/it is reborn on his/her/its native plane and is forbidden to leave for a long number of years. Right?

Wat Dagon is described as a pocket dimension

How pocket dimension behave in regard to demonlord rebirths isn't really defined (and even it was... well, expecting the abyss or demonlords to follow RAW is madness).

Maybe in this case the pocket is still consider connected to whatever it is a pocket of. Maybe Demogorgon owns it and let's Dagon use it on occasion (like a mother-in-law's guest house).

It's up to the DM to decide (i.e. whatever is best for the plot), but it seems like the original writers envisioned this being a "yay, we actually killed (as opposed to temporarily annoyed) a demonlord!" moment.

[Turin the Mad]

I believe that Wat Dagon is "in between" the two layers - Demogorgon's and Dagon's, respectively. The place is plenty connected enough to result in the deaths of either of them. I believe that both of them are connected in some fashion to the place.

Or, in my case, to 'insert' a new Prince of Demons. ^_^

[TheWhiteknife]

Yeah, I would hand wave this. The text says its "effectively" a demiplane, but the way its described, it seems more of a demi-layer that still exists on the Abyss, between Gaping Maw and Shadowsea.

[...the Frikkin' Balor]

An entity with Demogorgon's resources will have plenty of back doors and failsafes in place.

I imagine he has more aspects out there.

He probably has clones standing by....some of which will doubtlessly appear right in the middle of rival princes' territories.

Orcus was killed a whole lot worse than Demogorgon and he came back just fine.