In the 2nd Edition adventure for Blue Alley, room #10 has a "mirror of opposition" which creates a duplicate of all characters looking into it.
Recently, my pathfinder party looked into said mirror and fought their duplicates, however these duplicates are the exact same as the originals in abilities and I assume thought and logic, save for they cannot be charmed and are hell bent on destroying their originals. So the battle is pretty intense, but ends up coming down to one final duplicate who knew he would not win up against the other PC's alone - he is a halfling Bard - but I know he could easily devise a way to kill them all later on given the chance with his very high Intelligence score. So I had him go invisible and high-tail it out of there, knowing full well he would kill his original later on.
This all makes logical sense to me of what and intelligent duplicate would do, but does this go against what a mirror of opposition is suppose to accomplish? The description says the duplicates will, "pursue their originals inexorably, until one of the two is destroyed." This says too me that the duplicate will defy logic, and keep fighting his duplicate unto death, however the description also says they are, "exact doubles" in every way, and if the original was hell bent on destroying something, and believed he could do it with 100% certainty later on, he would.
Thus my dilemma. Thoughts? Anyways, makes for some fantastic possibilities, I promise you.
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the party offed the rest of the opposite them's?
if so, yes, have the Bizarro Bard escape, plot revenge, and utilize the party's strategies against them. Not to say you should "die in your sleep" or anything like that, but sounds like a very fun NPC boss to fight at a later date.
If he's anything like the bards we see play, he'll have allies, traps, sneaky treachery, and the like at his fingertips. Sounds like a prime BBEG to me. Bump him up a couple of levels, consider some stat/template adjustments, and you have the mastermind of your next dungeon/adventure (assuming you're not using an AP, in which case there should be a way to slot the bard in...).
-t
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hmm, I'd go the opposite route.
If he knows everything that Bard Prime does, then he should be able to draw on/exhaust/corrupt any resources. If his Int is high enough he should be able to get around detect lie.
Example:
As a magical construct, I don't think he should increase in levels. Maybe a template could be added by some external method and he could beg/borrow/steal more magical items.
Do you want the halfling to be recurring, or is it better as a 1-shot? If it was me, I would think it would make a decent villain, even if for a short time (I assume the PCs are actively hunting down said evil twin?).
This incident reminds me of our own party's recent battles with our evil twins. Fortunately for us, through DM fiat we wound up going before our evil twins. My rogue took a 5-foot adjustment and aced the paladin's evil twin (he was unarmored since our paladin has armor that he can summon as a free action...hehe). Our paladin took a 5-foot adjustment and aced the evil twin of my rogue (due to smite evil).
After that it was 5 on 3 and we steamrolled the remaining evil twins. The whole thing took 3 rounds max, but it was pretty fun. If the DM hadn't given all of the evil twins low initiatives, it could have gotten really ugly, though.
Fighting yourselves is something every group should have to do once in their careers.
I think that, if it serves your campaign, go for it :) Personally, I would've even added an Army of Darkness angle on that as well (mainly because the mirror reminds me of the one from AoD ;))
I like all of these ideas! So many possibilities! Anyways, I decided to give him two additional levels, some henchmen, and am having him play up the *bard* card by frequenting bars and taverns in said city - they are currently in Undermountain for lord knows how long, leaving the duplicate free to cause havoc. His lyrics will of course paint the main hero party as very villainous, with stories like, "don't let them even talk too you, or they will murder you where you stand," and, "one of their abilities is 'x', if you see him about to use it, take him out immediately, least your own life be forfeit!" Consequently, he hero party will constantly have other heroes trying to take them out and their name will be spoiled. Once they finally figure out who is behind it all, they must confront him in his new thieves lair, filled with traps, bandits, and unsavory types. I'm loving this concept more and more!
EDIT: Oh man.... he could kidnap his duplicates family also, but if he were the *same* person, just with the disposition of wanting to murder his original, would he kidnap his own family? Maybe not. But maybe his parties families ;) .
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I ran a game based on the premise that a few members from a group of mirror of opposition duplicates fled their combat and set up camp somewhere to enact their own evil schemes. It wasn't the PCs duplicates, but a rival adventuring party, and they had great fun killing their rivals-in-effigy.
(And it satisfied a quibble with the scenario I was running, in which a wizard and some allies were ensconced in a desert ruin. Making them duplicates meant that I didn't have to worry about them needing a source of food and water, since the hazards of desert travel were part of the theme, and it was sadistic fun to allow the PCs to beat these seemingly human foes only to find out that they had no rations or water supplies to pillage...).
Duplicate foes, whether created by a magic mirror, or brought across from 'Shadow Absalom,' or made via Simulacrum, or whatever, make for a fun way to have the party fight a group of similarly-equipped PC-types, without having to award them the party treasure of a group equal to themselves (which would, basically, double their wealth!), since the duplicates or shadow-spawn or whatever can be equipped with gear that vanishes when they die without it feeling like a 'decaying Drow magic items' McScrewfin.
I've only used this idea twice, once with the mirror-party, and once with a Black Dragon who used simulacra of herself to dominate her area (since she lacked the inclination to pump out half-dragon servants, considering the thought of mating with lesser species repulsive, and the idea of raising the resultant spawn unacceptable).
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EDIT: Oh man.... he could kidnap his duplicates family also, but if he were the *same* person, just with the disposition of wanting to murder his original, would he kidnap his own family? Maybe not. But maybe his parties families ;) .
If the PC has bad relations with a particular family member, say Uncle Vinnie the Crimelord, the doppleganger would logically run right to that family member to join the dark side of the family.
I like all of these ideas! So many possibilities! Anyways, I decided to give him two additional levels, some henchmen, and am having him play up the *bard* card by frequenting bars and taverns in said city - they are currently in Undermountain for lord knows how long, leaving the duplicate free to cause havoc. His lyrics will of course paint the main hero party as very villainous, with stories like, "don't let them even talk too you, or they will murder you where you stand," and, "one of their abilities is 'x', if you see him about to use it, take him out immediately, least your own life be forfeit!" Consequently, he hero party will constantly have other heroes trying to take them out and their name will be spoiled. Once they finally figure out who is behind it all, they must confront him in his new thieves lair, filled with traps, bandits, and unsavory types. I'm loving this concept more and more!
EDIT: Oh man.... he could kidnap his duplicates family also, but if he were the *same* person, just with the disposition of wanting to murder his original, would he kidnap his own family? Maybe not. But maybe his parties families ;) .
Have him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.
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Have him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.I like all of these ideas! So many possibilities! Anyways, I decided to give him two additional levels, some henchmen, and am having him play up the *bard* card by frequenting bars and taverns in said city - they are currently in Undermountain for lord knows how long, leaving the duplicate free to cause havoc. His lyrics will of course paint the main hero party as very villainous, with stories like, "don't let them even talk too you, or they will murder you where you stand," and, "one of their abilities is 'x', if you see him about to use it, take him out immediately, least your own life be forfeit!" Consequently, he hero party will constantly have other heroes trying to take them out and their name will be spoiled. Once they finally figure out who is behind it all, they must confront him in his new thieves lair, filled with traps, bandits, and unsavory types. I'm loving this concept more and more!
EDIT: Oh man.... he could kidnap his duplicates family also, but if he were the *same* person, just with the disposition of wanting to murder his original, would he kidnap his own family? Maybe not. But maybe his parties families ;) .
If the families don't know about bard b, he could very reasonably "retire" from adventures. He then ensconces his duplicate's family and the rest of them in comfortable and secure lodgings.
At the bottom of his trap and mook filled lair.
-t
Have him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.
Wow, that's the kind of evil that people usually get mad at me for thinking up. Well done.
Have him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.Wow, that's the kind of evil that people usually get mad at me for thinking up. Well done.
Of course you follow this up with a very memorable multi-family reunion
Of course you follow this up with a very memorable multi-family reunionHave him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.Wow, that's the kind of evil that people usually get mad at me for thinking up. Well done.
Yeah. Don't eat the meatloaf.
Yeah. Don't eat the meatloaf.Of course you follow this up with a very memorable multi-family reunionHave him kidnap all the families, make them look in the mirrors, and have their duplicates replace them.Wow, that's the kind of evil that people usually get mad at me for thinking up. Well done.
It's the hotdogs I'd be worried about :)
When I ran Rise of the Runelords, one of the PCs in the group ended up being duplicated. Unfortunately for the party, it was the always-prepared, trap-making 15th level rogue. The duplicate realized that there was no way she could take out the original while the rest of the party was around, so she followed the party around, occasionally snatching items from the other players (since she had all the memories of the original, she also knew what items were being carried around) for future use. After a particularly bad beating, the party retreated, leaving the rogue alone in an extraplanar dungeon for a good month, giving her plenty of time to familiarize herself with the layout of the dungeon and the inhabitants.
When the party returned to the dungeon, they were a little surprised to find so many traps (and monsters that had been lured from their lairs) in areas they had already cleared. By the time they managed to subdue the duplicate (the original refused to kill her own duplicate, believing that to do so was creepy), every party member was either incapacitated or down to single digit hit points.
The party managed to get the duplicate back to their keep, where they imprisoned her in the prison no fewer than five times (seriously. You'd think they would have realized no normal prison could hold a 15th level rogue). During her escapes, she sowed dissent amongst the guards, seduced the original's love interest, and cleaned out the party's treasury.
After the second escape, the party instituted a zero-tolerance policy regarding helping the prisoner, punishable by death. So, of course, the next person who helped her escape was a seven year-old boy.
Finally, the party came up with the glorious plan of obtaining a Helm of Opposite Alignment and putting it on the duplicate's head. By that time, it was either let them get away with it or they were going to put down the duplicate, so I let it happen.
The duplicate opened an orphanage in town to help all the poor children the party's escapades had left parentless, and married the original's love interest while the party was away on a long adventure.
So, duplicates as enemies? Hell Yeah! I'd do it again, but the players would never let me get away with it.
It's the hotdogs I'd be worried about :)