For DM's and Players alike, how important are your character's backgrounds and backstories? How much of a role do they play in day-to-day adventuring?
DMs, do your players not give their character's enough backstory? Too much? Do you prefer to just use your story, and their background is just what got them there to start the adventure?
Players, how much of your character's backstory/past comes up during regular gaming? Does your DM use elements of your backstory enough? Are your backgrounds ignored in favor of the DM's story?
I ask because in the campaign I am running, I am trying to find a good middle ground for myself as the DM, and my players. I have one player in particular who creates very interesting, deeply detailed, unique characters, but happens to put "his" story before everyone else's, including the adventure and plot at hand. If he had a certain profession at the start of the campaign, he precludes to return to that profession as soon as possible, and any attempt to get him to go on an "adventure" is met with resistance and he seems annoyed by the distraction. During the course of adventures, his characters moan and whine about having to be dragged all the way out there, and how he can't wait to just get back to what he was doing prior.
I want to run a fun campaign for all my players, but this player's characters in particular seem as though adventuring is the last thing on their minds. He may be used to "open ended" games where the players just go do what they want, and there's no real story there. But the problem is, once a story does crop up, the player treats it like an inconvenient distraction.
Ideas? Input?
Well, if his profession is a problem, throw him for a loop. Maybe raiders hit the town and burn his home-complete with shop-to the ground. Now A) he has no profession to return to, and B) he has incentive to track down the responsible parties. A few hooks can lead him into the campaign's main story from there.
As a player, I always create a backstory with some sort of key event or useful hook. Some games, the backstory isn't all that important. In others, it's VERY important.
During the course of adventures, his characters moan and whine about having to be dragged all the way out there, and how he can't wait to just get back to what he was doing prior.
Is it only his CHARACTERS that are moaning and whining? Or the player himself?
If the player himself dislikes going on adventures, you may need to have a talk with him about just what kind of campaign he's expecting to play in. You may need to remind him that you have to accommodate the other players too (who, I assume, want a more traditional, adventurous campaign.)
On the other hand, maybe the player just likes to play a "reluctant hero" type. "All I ever wanted was to be a baker, and I'm stuck fighting goblins!"
In the latter case, if that bothers you, maybe you could ask the player to help you out by putting some "adventure bait" into his backstory. For instance, maybe his character pines for some long-lost girlfriend. Then if the character gets difficult, you could use that.
PLAYER: But I don't WANT to go to the Dungeon of Death. It sounds dangerous, and why should I?
GM: What? But... but... oh, OK. You hear rumors, which may or may not be true, that your girlfriend is being held prisoner there.
PLAYER: OK, I'm there!
As a GM, I find that my players have little interest in backstory, creating just the bare minimum. So maybe I shouldn't be giving you advice...
As a player, I always create a backstory with some sort of key event or useful hook.
Exactly. As a player, I would try to accommodate the GM any way I conveniently can.
In fact, typically, I could find some way to justify why following the railroad is in accordance with my character. "Gee, going on this adventure would go against everything I believe... but the other party members are my friends, so I'm standing with them." Or "I don't like to work for such a shady character... but how bad could it be to control the population of goblin raiders, (or find a cure to a disease, or whatever)?"
During the course of adventures, his characters moan and whine about having to be dragged all the way out there, and how he can't wait to just get back to what he was doing prior.Is it only his CHARACTERS that are moaning and whining? Or the player himself?
If the player himself dislikes going on adventures, you may need to have a talk with him about just what kind of campaign he's expecting to play in. You may need to remind him that you have to accommodate the other players too (who, I assume, want a more traditional, adventurous campaign.)
On the other hand, maybe the player just likes to play a "reluctant hero" type. "All I ever wanted was to be a baker, and I'm stuck fighting goblins!"
Ya know, I can't really tell? Now that I think about it, almost all of his characters in my games have been like that. When I ran a Star Wars KOTOR campaign, he rolled up a Smuggler. Had a great story too. But, any time the party was called on to help save the galaxy, he moaned and cried about it, claiming to want nothing to do with the war going on. I was kinda dumbfounded, as it was the central element of the campaign! Jedi versus Sith! Republic versus the Mandolorians!
In each game I run, I explain to all my players ahead of time what kind of game I have in mind. If it's an open-ended, do-what-you-want setting I tell them. When, in this case, it's going to be a story-focused, adventure based campaign, I tell the players just what they're getting into. It really feels like he wants to play a "no rules" homebrew with no responsibilities, but I make it absolutely clear beforehand that it not what I'm running. I'm runnin out of ideas.
Ya know, I can't really tell? Now that I think about it, almost all of his characters in my games have been like that. When I ran a Star Wars KOTOR campaign, he rolled up a Smuggler. Had a great story too. But, any time the party was called on to help save the galaxy, he moaned and cried about it, claiming to want nothing to do with the war going on. I was kinda dumbfounded, as it was the central element of the campaign! Jedi versus Sith! Republic versus the Mandolorians!
I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh.
A smuggler, who doesn't want to save the galaxy, but only wants to look out for himself? In a Star Wars story?!? Unheard of!!! Such a thing has never, ever been done before!!!
As a GM, I like relatively detailed backstories from players so I can get the best sense of how they fit into the world, what background information they would know, etc. If I get a very good background I will give the PC a special bit of information or an item that will be both useful to them and help bring them into the plot.
The issue of someone focusing on HIS story versus the party's isn't directly the problem of having a detailed backstory, it's that--if you don't mind a little hyperbole here--the player wants a solo adventure with the rest of the players being cheerleader to him. The detailed backstory in this case is only the "symptom" of a problem. Players like that need to be gently (or not so gently) reminded they are part of a group, and that if you make a background that prevents you from participating in the game in a reasonable manner, then that's not good character design for a teamwork-based game, which is what D&D is.
It is your also your right as GM to nix any character background that is unsuitable for your campaign. It's not something I would do willy nilly, but if it's really a problem, then it needs to be discussed with the player and the background needs to be revised.
Anyway, it seems like with the specific issue at hand, the GM needs to tell the player he's frustrated and look for solutions. "I'm at a loss. How can I get your character involved?" is a good, simple place to start.
Generally speaking, not necessarily related to this particular issue, if it's just a matter of curbing enthusiasm--the character DOES get along with the party for the most part, but the player has a habit of going into the details of her character's morning routine and so on (not that I have ever done that to my poor hapless GMs and fellow players when I was a player, no sir, I never ridiculously over-develop my characters *whistles*) then a gentle reminder might be needed that it's time to focus on the adventuring with everyone and not the niggly bits.
Ya know, I can't really tell? Now that I think about it, almost all of his characters in my games have been like that. When I ran a Star Wars KOTOR campaign, he rolled up a Smuggler. Had a great story too. But, any time the party was called on to help save the galaxy, he moaned and cried about it, claiming to want nothing to do with the war going on. I was kinda dumbfounded, as it was the central element of the campaign! Jedi versus Sith! Republic versus the Mandolorians!I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh.
A smuggler, who doesn't want to save the galaxy, but only wants to look out for himself? In a Star Wars story?!? Unheard of!!! Such a thing has never, ever been done before!!!
Exactly! Lmao!
The funny part is, he was actually smuggling the whole time and didn't bother to realize it. The party had helped rescue the last noble of a city from being captured by the Sith, and had to keep her safe because of some valuable information she had that could turn the tide of the war. The party spent the better part of the campaign evading Sith blockades, sneaking past fortifications, sometimes having all out wars at other fortifications, making contacts with shady types on various planets, getting "well acquainted" with some female twi'leks, and being paid handsomely to do it. Yet, he wanted to do more "smuggling" lol.
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I ask because in the campaign I am running, I am trying to find a good middle ground for myself as the DM, and my players. I have one player in particular who creates very interesting, deeply detailed, unique characters, but happens to put "his" story before everyone else's, including the adventure and plot at hand. If he had a certain profession at the start of the campaign, he precludes to return to that profession as soon as possible, and any attempt to get him to go on an "adventure" is met with resistance and he seems annoyed by the distraction. During the course of adventures, his characters moan and whine about having to be dragged all the way out there, and how he can't wait to just get back to what he was doing prior.
This can be a terrible nuisance converting players from D&D to Vampire, or vice-versa, as characters are very self-motivated, with their own agendas, in WoD-style storytelling, while D&D is more 'follow the plot the DM lays out' in nature. (Although examples counter to both of these generalizations exist!)
Other than the adversarial 'scorched earth' option (blow up his personal storyline with great prejudice, leaving him unable to do anything but follow the choo-choo), your best bet is to work with him in advance of the story, laying out specific plot elements that will come into play, so that he can design his character to interweave with those story threads.
The 'Campaign Traits' concept in Paizo Adventure Paths is one fairly novel way to address this, giving each player character a built in 'tie' to the upcoming events, but you don't have to offer mechanical benefits, just sit down and say, we're gonna meet X, were gonna go Y (within reason, he certainly doesn't need to hear anything spoiler-y!), come up with reasons why your character would want to meet X or go Y, so that your richly-detailed character has an in-story reason to want to follow the storyline.
Encourage him to creatively edit his backstory (again, within reason, he shouldn't be getting advantages from this), so that his character might have a history with some NPC (such as Hans pre-existing relationship with Lando, which didn't turn out to be much of an advantage, until later, when it helped move the plot choo-choo along nicely).
Keep this stuff relatively rare, as other players will likely want to get in on it at some point, and the storyline will become crazy cluttered if every single NPC is some party members crazy uncle Bubu or ex-college-roommates-best-friend or something.
The object is to get him integrated into the story, without having to mangle the storyline to drag him into it, not give him some mechanical advantage (or penalty) for being a more immersive player (or a more selfish one). Ideally, other players will develop an interest in this sort of thing, particularly if you take the easy road and just hand out Campaign Traits at the beginning of a campaign that relate to the upcoming events in some way (and, an expansion on that idea, perhaps you will hand out new Campaign Traits at a certain level break, when the adventure is taking a turn in a new direction, to connect the PCs to the new upcoming playing field in some way. It shouldn't 'break the game' to have a single Campaign Trait at 1st, and at 6th level, as the party is moving into a different region, to get a second Campaign Trait, flavored to fit the new adventuring area).
But if the player refuses to engage in this manner, and consistently builds Wolverine when you're running a Superfriends game, screw him. No reason to bend yourself (and the enjoyment of the other players) out of joint to cater to the uncooperativeness of a single player.
Gaming is a group activity, and if he's the squeaky wheel who'se messing up your groups feng shui, he's the one you trade to another team in the off-season.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I do have a method I am going to try in game and see how it goes. In the campaign I am currently running, the player's have just come upon the major plot point where everything is about to go crazy; the last moment of "normal" life before the mad dash to the BBEG. So, I'm going to give the player in question another chance or two to RP out his "profession" before engaging the group into the more focused, intense portion of the campaign. I'm hoping that by indulging this particular player's side-story component at least 1 or 2 more times, that'll be enough to get it out of his system and back to the main plot.
Also, I'm doing what I can so that this particular story-arc finishes in the relatively near future. I've had a problem in the past of running games with long-reaching story arcs that I as a DM got bored with the early portions because I was so excited for the finale, I tended to rush things to get to that point. The group are all level 4 now(3.5 ed.) and I'm looking to wrap up this campaign arc around 8-10th level.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I do have a method I am going to try in game and see how it goes. In the campaign I am currently running, the player's have just come upon the major plot point where everything is about to go crazy; the last moment of "normal" life before the mad dash to the BBEG. So, I'm going to give the player in question another chance or two to RP out his "profession" before engaging the group into the more focused, intense portion of the campaign. I'm hoping that by indulging this particular player's side-story component at least 1 or 2 more times, that'll be enough to get it out of his system and back to the main plot.
Also, I'm doing what I can so that this particular story-arc finishes in the relatively near future. I've had a problem in the past of running games with long-reaching story arcs that I as a DM got bored with the early portions because I was so excited for the finale, I tended to rush things to get to that point. The group are all level 4 now(3.5 ed.) and I'm looking to wrap up this campaign arc around 8-10th level.
There was a game where I tried a concept I called "accomplishment cards". Basically, they were little cards given to the players mentioning something they had to accomplish during the game in order to claim the XPs indicated on the card. Some would be rather banal (You must say "Hasta la Vista, Baby" before killing an enemy) while other allowed me some control over the game (you must go to Red Oak Tavern and hire Matt's character as a guide).
It was a much an experiment for the R-P of the players as an alternate method to 'railroad' this particular game.
There was a game where I tried a concept I called "accomplishment cards". Basically, they were little cards given to the players mentioning something they had to accomplish during the game in order to claim the XPs indicated on the card. Some would be rather banal (You must say "Hasta la Vista, Baby" before killing an enemy) while other allowed me some control over the game (you must go to Red Oak Tavern and hire Matt's character as a guide).
It was a much an experiment for the R-P of the players as an alternate method to 'railroad' this particular game.
If I ever GM again, I think I'll steal this idea. Thanks Laurefindel!
I tend to gm a free flowing game, because every time I set up a specific adventure, the players avoid it. So one the the things I do, is to encourage backgrounds by offering xp's for them. I do warn them that enemies they create will appear eventually, though not necessarily as they wrote them. Any NPC's they put in can appear. this gives a wealth of potential adventures, and helps me solidify the world with the players being part of the creation. I also ask the question when it is time for xp's: What have you learned the last game session? It is always interesting to hear the response, especially if they answer in character. They know the better the answer, the more xp's they will get for it.
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As a DM I love for pc's to have background and I try to provide them with info that promotes creating background. I reward those that put forth the effort by having things from their bio in the storyline. I as a player (ha like I get to play )create a background if for no other reason to promote rp for myself if the DM uses it great. If not it's ok to.
I respect much of the advice given above about getting this guy "on track" and I think it might work with a Novice Player who "didn't quite understand what the game's about" but I think you're dealing with a different beast entirely.
After posting and reading the responses in this thread, I agree with you whole-heartedly on this point. This player is no novice. In fact, he's the one that got me into DnD. He's got more experience in different games than I could begin to remember. He even got some independent work published for the Scarred Lands setting. My point being, it's not so much about "getting him on track" but trying to find a good middle ground in our gaming styles.
P.S. In case you didn't notice in my quote, you used the term "preclude" entirely incorrectly. You probably mean "is predisposed" or "determines". What you basically said is "once the adventure starts he makes it difficult or impossible to return to that profession ..." which is the opposite of what you meant. In proof-reading my own post, I find that I coincidentally used the same term in the last line correctly. Don't mean to offend, just wanted to point out the mis-used word.
Gasp! Someone on the internet misused a word?? Blasphemy!
My mistake. Honestly though, pointing out my mistake on this forum is pretty overkill, and serves no other purpose than glorifying your own grammar skills and pointing out someone else's shortcomings. Here's your cookie. I hope it makes you feel better.
If I ever GM again, I think I'll steal this idea. Thanks Laurefindel!
There was a game where I tried a concept I called "accomplishment cards". Basically, they were little cards given to the players mentioning something they had to accomplish during the game in order to claim the XPs indicated on the card. Some would be rather banal (You must say "Hasta la Vista, Baby" before killing an enemy) while other allowed me some control over the game (you must go to Red Oak Tavern and hire Matt's character as a guide).
It was a much an experiment for the R-P of the players as an alternate method to 'railroad' this particular game.
Seconded!
As a player and a borderline egocentric narcissist - j/k), I tend to want to get my character involved and be a part of the story. So I will ask my DM about his world and maybe look at some maps or check out his notes on the personalities and gneralities of places and maybe glance at important historical events. I don't expect Forgotten Realms level of detail, just a few sentences worth of information is helpful.
Then I come up with a background for a character that interests me that [u]also[/u] seems to fit in to the DM's world. Sometimes it doesn't, but there is usually room to 'wiggle' to make the background even more compelling. I don't write a novella on my background, but try to give a brief synopsis (I am long-winded so four paragraphs or so). However, I also make sure to add two to three plot hooks - some sort of mystery or unresolved business - that the DM can feel free to incorporate as part of a campaign.
I was very fortunate to have had a wonderful DM who insisted on a backstory and then designed adventures to make every player the star of story arc at some point. Weaving together those backgraounds was magical; what this DM lacked in tactics, he made up for in story-telling. Some of the best adventures I've ever played came from the personalized adventures he made adn the way he got the entire group involved.
As a DM I now insist tha tmy players give me a short blurb about character background, if only so I can make them plot hook bait or try to personalize my own adventures. Some players give me wayyyy too much, but that's fine. Sometimes their background helps me flesh out a portion of my own world, or inspires me to add something new to my world. Maybe that addition won't even affect the character, but it builds on the shared experience. To promote coming up with a background, I used to give a small reward, like an extra few skill points in craft, profession, or knowledge, or an intangible in-game effect visited on the character (one rogue had an effect where no-one ever remembered his face - helpful for roguery, but annoying for sooo manhy face-to-face interactions).
Occasionally some players simply would not make a backstory. So I made one up for them. The look on the mage character's face was priceless when his brother the bard showed up... with his goblin slave... and nodded hello to the NPC rogue whom he apparently knew from long ago and addressed him by a name the party had never heard.... Good times...
Admitidly my DM is running a bunch of hack and slashers so back story really isn't all that important to us as a group but he seems to like it.
The annoying part is I give him a back story and he freakin runs with it. I was asked what my wizard was doing in town and I told him I was running from a very angry father because I seduced his daughter with tales of my Rod of wonder. I was expecting that to be the end of it but oh no he actually stated them out and in order to keep my good alignment I had to marry her, then the charecter had a kid, no role of nuthin to give me a chance just BOOM you have a daughter. Well I wasnt gonna stand for that crap so I limited wished my charecter to be able to only concieve males from that point on then I polymorphed my daughter into my son. One quick memory charm on the mother and I have a male heir as opposed to a dowry needing daughter. By this time my charecter had plenty of land and wealth and was very well respected so money wasnt a big issue but the charecter wanted sons.
The current druid I am playing I made sure he couldnt do crap with this story. Forgotten realms setting in the area of silverymoon. I was raised by the druidic circle of Silvanus because my father was killed while hunting, my mother had just had me and knew she wasn't going to get another man to take care of her with me in tow so she left me out in the woods to freeze to death and die. I was found and trained as a druid all my life. I even went so far as to say that I found my mother, talked to her and while we have no affection for one another we don't hate each other either. Thats a back story that a DM can't do sheeit with and still lets me be that charecter I want to be.
As a plea to all DM's don't keep useing that same players story as fodder for your campaign, it may be the player has great ideas but it really anoys the other members of the group.
To the players if your going to be a freakin whisper gnome in a world where there arn't any or a half-fey/half-celestial centaur or any other werid combo then dont expect your DM to be able to do alot with that type of setup.
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The annoying part is I give him a back story and he freakin runs with it.
These are the GMs that if they give you a Wish spell, you say, 'No thank you' and run far, far away, because if they'll tweak your backstory to cause you grief, they'll definitely be the type to twist the wording of a Wish spell to cause you great injustice!
With that kind of GM, make sure that all the childhood rivals are dead, dead, dead right there in the backstory, before handing it over. :)
The annoying part is I give him a back story and he freakin runs with it.These are the GMs that if they give you a Wish spell, you say, 'No thank you' and run far, far away, because if they'll tweak your backstory to cause you grief, they'll definitely be the type to twist the wording of a Wish spell to cause you great injustice!
With that kind of GM, make sure that all the childhood rivals are dead, dead, dead right there in the backstory, before handing it over. :)
I don't mind so much anymore if the DM has a field day with my character's backstory. I used to, but honestly it makes the game more interesting. In most cases, the DM isn't trying to be a jerk; I've always taken it as a compliment if the DM likes my backstory enough that it inspires him to build the campaign around it. Instead of purposely "DM-proofing" my backstories, I just tell them to bring it on!
In my first DnD campaign, I played a ranger who came from a very proud family in a small village. The family made up most of the local government, and had a long standing tradition of adventuring in the region. I made it very clear to the DM that my character was adventuring to make his mark, and makes his family proud.
So what's the DM do? Well, first he causes a conspiracy in the village that get my character and his siblings ostracized and become outcasts, completely shunned, while a rival cousin takes our seat on the council. Then, when I'm just on the verge of clearing our names, a tribe of orcs led by a powerful wizard comes through and devastates the village, taking the survivors as slaves. My character's father was slain, and mother was taken as a slave.
I was pretty ticked off at first, but looking back on it, that's the kind of immersion I really miss. It's terrific inspiration to get out there and take some orc heads! After having my character's backstory manipulated to such a degree, nothing can phase me now. I say bring it.
There's a careful balance with the story we're trying to tell with the game. For a lot of players, it's just a casual hobby to sling some dice and hang out. I really get into the story aspect, and whenever I get a chance I like to work with the DM and try to get a good story going. I don't care what terrible things happen to my characters as long as it's interesting. I fully tell them to pull no punches; lemme have it! there's nothing a DM can do to my character(other than kill or cripple) that I won't be able get back up from. The more intense the circumstance, the better.
Honestly, how interesting would the movie "Kill Bill" have been if The Bride was never betrayed and attacked? If her wedding went on as normal, and everyone lived happily ever after? It's those extreme circumstances that often make the most interesting characters and storylines. In my opinion, the backstory shouldn't be more interesting than what's to come, otherwise your character has already seen his best days. Kinda takes the fun out of adventuring.