This is a bit of a conundrum, blending 3.5, PF, and the APG Pathfinder info. I have a player with an Oracle with the Battle Mystery (or is it Focus?). He asked if he would be able to choose spells that are tied to the gods that his mystery is connected to (i.e. Gorum, Cayden, Rovagug, etc.). Oracles supposedly do not have a single god, but draw their powers from the gods tied to their mystery.
So, could an Oracle choose spells (remember, they have a limited spells known) tied to those gods (such as from Gods & Magic or Dwarves of Golarion)?
Or, would they need to also have a 'patron' deity and can only receive choices from one. Also, what about the deity-specific 'specials' such as Cayden's create water turning to ale or wine, or his cleric's spontaneous casting of knock?
Now, since we were playing a one-off, I just said that he could choose one deity and gets all the applicable powers as if he was a cleric.
A case could be made for a lot of different reactions:
1) they're not clerics, so they don't get ANY of the special spells or abilities.
2) they have to choose a patron if they want the special spells or abilities, and they get everything or spells or abilities (like lower-level spells, such as a 3rd level Neutralize Poison)
3) They can choose any of the spells from their associated deities, but get no special features (since they have limited spells known, this isn't too overwhelming, since they have to eat up slots to do it). But it does make me a little nervous, since Rovagug and Cayden wouldn't see eye-to-eye.
I was just wondering what other folks think of this.
I say that if he directly follows a patron, he gets access to specialised spells (like Cayden Cailean's pick your poison) and extra spell choices (like Calistria's priests being able to treat suggestion as a 4th-level cleric spell). Just having a mystery that lists the respective deity is not enough.
On the other hand, I could see those special abilities tied to the proper mysteries instead:
Say you have a hedonism mystery, listing Calistria and Cayden Cailean as associated deities. An oracle of hedonism could not learn rage as a 3rd-level spell even if he were a follower of Calistria, since that is more in line with here retribution aspect. He couldn't use the lover's vengeance spell, either. He could treat suggestion as a 4th-level spell, though, since that is tied to her lust aspect. He could also use Cayden's pick your poison spell or use the options for create food and water and create water, but not the knock thing, since that is about freedom, not hedonism.
On the other hand, I could see those special abilities tied to the proper mysteries instead:
That's an interesting thought that occurred to me as well (he really wanted the 'create ale' adaptation of Cailean, which seemed out of place for a battle mystery, and I thought "But, the oracle's focus is battle, not booze!")
It made some sense that he'd have access to battle-related things, but that also seemed to pigeonhole him a little bit. Probably just me over-thinking things, but maybe not.
I also think an Oracle COULD have a patron deity, but still gather their power from them all. Much like any other class could have a patron, but still pay lip service or even devotion to another god when they need their oversight. ("Gozreh, help us, the ship's about to sink!")
It might even be able to work different ways in different cases...hmmm.
(P.S. I'm fairly new to Golarion, so if I mis-spell a deity, don't hold it against me.)
I've been thinking about this myself lately, and I think the way I will do it in my games is that since being an oracle has nothing to do with worshiping the Gods... They've granted you the power along with it's curse. If you don't like it, then don't use the powers. You still got the curse. Have fun.
So, you follow them to some extent. Now, if an oracle doesn't have a patron deity as most oracles don't then I wouldn't allow them to use deity-specific spells. If they DO chose a patron deity, then they can.
However... I also will allow an oracle to say "Screw the gods" and keep their powers since an oracle doesn't ask for the powers like a cleric does... but one with a patron deity does that... Lose powers, keep curse.
In other words, if you are willing to restrict yourself as a cleric would have to, then you can have access to that deity's spells. However, you then are giving that deity permission to punish you. If you are not willing to restrict yourself, then no deity can take away your power, but at the same time you don't get any deity-specific spells.
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Abadar is the patron of Law, Cities and Merchants. Basically civilisation. He also created and guards the First Vault which is "said to house perfect copies of everything that has ever existed, from natural objects to man-made works, and even concepts"
The guy has a vault that essentially has the Platonic Forms in it. How is he not fitting to be associated with the Lore mystery?
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Being the god of where most knowledge is created, perpetuated and stored (cities) and maintaining a vault that contains perfect copies of concepts are pretty good credentials for being associated with the the lore mystery. [edit] That vault is the ultimate library if it really does contain the platonic forms of concepts!
His domains don't accurately reflect what his portfolio and history really.
Pharasma and the heavens mystery I'm with you on. There is no connection there that I can see. Except maybe a tenuous link of prophecy > astrology > stars
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I guess I read it as him making it and maintaining it by adding to the collection of perfect concepts and items. The museum curator of the gods in addition to being an architect etc.
Rules wise I think you can worship any god you want as an Oracle or no god at all. "This mystery can represent a devotion to one ideal, prayers to deities that support the concept, or a natural calling to champion a cause".
It looks like Cage because the remake of The Wicker Man is my favourite film of all time (this might be a lie).
The thing about oracles is who they worship doesn't matter because there is no garontee that that god is giving them power.
My understanding is that the deities listed with each mystery are deities with portfolios related to that mystery (though sometimes the relationship is a bit of a stretch). An oracle can worship one of those deities, or a different deity, or no deity at all. I don't see anything in the rules as written that an oracle must worship one of the suggested deities. I also remember reading at one point that one of the developers (James Jacobs, I think?) didn't want to include a list of deities for each mystery in the first place.
Wow! Ancient thread.
As has been said many a time, worship of a god does not necessarily follow having oracular powers. The iconic oracle, Alahazra, worships no deity.
So, a follower of Rovagug could somehow be a life oracle. Strange but true. Bet he is a bitter SOB about it too.
As for why certain gods are linked to certain mysteries? Gods know why, it really is a mystery. *shrugs*
Greg