So, we had a random encounter and the DM rolled a young gold dragon (CR 11). The 4 man party is 4th lvl. Not surprisingly everyone flew away (yeh, they've got wings being 1/2 fiend and 1/2 dragon). I don't have wings, so it's me and a gold dragon (oh, i'm evil too), and somehow I managed to convince it that I would betray the party and lead them to its lair, so he can devour them. We're now 5th lvl and nowhere ready to take on a CR 11 (plus all its minions, etc).
All 'Complete' books are open as well as Spell Compendium. So i'm gonna load up on anti-dragon scrolls + Assay Spell Resistance.
Any ideas on how to turn this one around? Tactics? Cheap tricks? anything at all at the moment is better than the bitter taste of desperation.
Cheers
Shivering touch, assay spell resistance, and praying(not a spell. you really need to pray) are your friends
Where's Shivering Touch from?
heh, i used to be a heretic, newly converted to the idea of praying :)
Where's Shivering Touch from?
heh, i used to be a heretic, newly converted to the idea of praying :)
It's from Frostburn. It does 3d6 dex damage no save, and I think its only a 3rd level spell. Why is this important? Most dragons have only 10 dex, and if you don't have a dex score of at least 1 you can't move. It does have SR however, so you will probably need assay spell resistance(swift action) to bypass the SR.
unless the dm is actually interested in a party wipe, i think he is prepared for you to talk your way through this one. a level 5 party vs a young gold dragon? It just doesnt seem like it would work. Your best bet is stay away and let the dm have the gold dragon chase you down when you are a more appropriate level.
Unless gold dragons work differently in your GM's world, wouldn't they rather talk than fight?
OTOH, if the party is evil and actively doing bad things, it might feel behooved to take the party out for the greater good.
But it seems like there'd be a noncombat solution to this.
It's from Frostburn. It does 3d6 dex damage no save, and I think its only a 3rd level spell. Why is this important? Most dragons have only 10 dex, and if you don't have a dex score of at least 1 you can't move. It does have SR however, so you will probably need assay spell resistance(swift action) to bypass the SR.Where's Shivering Touch from?
heh, i used to be a heretic, newly converted to the idea of praying :)
Actually, a young gold dragon has Dex 12 (14 base, -2 from being young).
The more important thing to consider is this: Using something like that will signal the GM that the "no overpowered crap" rule just went out of the window. Prepare for enemy sorcerers using maximised shivering touch spells on you in no time. What's good for the goose and all that.
I'd go for the non-combat solution, or just flee this dragon's territory. Seems the dragon let you out on the "promise" that you will betray your friends to it. Just turn your tail and gallantly chicken out. The lizard can hardly cry foul if you go back on your promise to betray your fellow felons. It's only a young one, they're not the all-powerful engines of lawful destruction yet.
The DM isn't worried about TPK, just 2 weeks ago the whole party got wiped. It wasn't his intention, but we have a policy of letting the dice fall where they may, and he just happened to roll 89. If he'd rolled a monster that wasn't interested in talking, we'd already be dead.
We don't have to go there for a couple of levels but Goldie told me that if I reneged he'd make it his life quest to hunt me and party down.
Besides that, we want that dragon hoard! Just don't want to die getting it.
Unfortunately, Frostburn isn't allowed. Like I said in the OP All 'Complete' books are open as well as Spell Compendium.
I don't think talking is an option, once we get there, it's on.
I either betray the party or betray Goldie. Dragons have more treasure (and i hate PvP) so my (lack of) options seem clear.
Any other spells/items/cheap tricks anyone can think of?
The DM isn't worried about TPK, just 2 weeks ago the whole party got wiped. It wasn't his intention, but we have a policy of letting the dice fall where they may, and he just happened to roll 89. If he'd rolled a monster that wasn't interested in talking, we'd already be dead.
We don't have to go there for a couple of levels but Goldie told me that if I reneged he'd make it his life quest to hunt me and party down.
Besides that, we want that dragon hoard! Just don't want to die getting it.
Unfortunately, Frostburn isn't allowed. Like I said in the OP All 'Complete' books are open as well as Spell Compendium.
I don't think talking is an option, once we get there, it's on.
I either betray the party or betray Goldie. Dragons have more treasure (and i hate PvP) so my (lack of) options seem clear.
Any other spells/items/cheap tricks anyone can think of?
good policy but do know what problem is? putting a CR 11 monster on a random encounter chart for level 4 characters... most you guys should be facing is maybe a CR 8 at the most. a CR 11? thats over the top and silly, your not winning that fight regardless of what you do. You'll never beat his SR, and have to TOUCH him for shivering touch good luck not getting cut to ribbons in the process.
My advice? go find an evil dragon, and tell it you know where a gold is... especially if its red it might be willing to help you for a price(such as servitude, or gold/items) and chance to kill a metallic? its to good to pass up, thats only way i see that encounter playing out well but in general your screwed...
now there's an idea! but then we have to share loot :(
i may be an optimist, but i think we can do it in a couple of lvls.
if we're lvl 7, it's do-able, i'm pretty sure i can stall it for a couple more lvls.
. You'll never beat his SR, and have to TOUCH him for shivering touch good luck not getting cut to ribbons in the process.
SR is what Assay Spell Resistance is for. Then you use Spectral Hand for delivering the spell.
now there's an idea! but then we have to share loot :(
i may be an optimist, but i think we can do it in a couple of lvls.
if we're lvl 7, it's do-able, i'm pretty sure i can stall it for a couple more lvls.
If you can level up a few levels first it might be managable, stall the dragon as long as you can. 7 will be a very hard fight but not impossible. Have someone pick up leadership, or get hirelings, at level 7 you might actually be able to take the dragon, it will just be hard as heck.
good policy but do know what problem is? putting a CR 11 monster on a random encounter chart for level 4 characters... most you guys should be facing is maybe a CR 8 at the most. a CR 11? thats over the top and silly, your not winning that fight regardless of what you do.No, no, no, no.
Some of the encounters need, nay, MUST be way beyond the party's capability to handle.
However, the DM shouldn't force them to be straight combats, either. Diplomacy, hirelings and whatnot should be perfectly valid options.
IMHO, there should be encounters PC's should just turn around from. Bottle the pride, you won't win as level 4-5 characters vs a CR 11 creature (if it's played right...).
Just wondering - is the entire party evil? How did the gold dragon fail a sense motive check with +22 when the PC would have +12 tops (assuming 20 charisma, max points into bluff, class skill)
That being said, he has detect evil at will - so why is he trusting the evil PC?
He didn't trust me, just wanted to kill 4 evil people, as opposed to 1.
Like i said, he told me he'd make it his life quest to hunt myself and the party down.
Thanks for the help all, but it went pear shaped. He kept calling me 'betrayer' and biting (vital strike) me. tried invisibility, he must've had See Invisibility on. :((
oh well, it was worth a shot.
He didn't trust me, just wanted to kill 4 evil people, as opposed to 1.
Like i said, he told me he'd make it his life quest to hunt myself and the party down.Thanks for the help all, but it went pear shaped. He kept calling me 'betrayer' and biting (vital strike) me. tried invisibility, he must've had See Invisibility on. :((
oh well, it was worth a shot.
Sorry it didnt work out, i'd recommend trying to convince your dm to retire the random encounter chart.
Sorry it didnt work out, i'd recommend trying to convince your dm to retire the random encounter chart.He didn't trust me, just wanted to kill 4 evil people, as opposed to 1.
Like i said, he told me he'd make it his life quest to hunt myself and the party down.Thanks for the help all, but it went pear shaped. He kept calling me 'betrayer' and biting (vital strike) me. tried invisibility, he must've had See Invisibility on. :((
oh well, it was worth a shot.
Your GM gives us a bad name...
@Kolokotroni - yeh, now we specify that we're wandering through 'temperate forests' (CR 5) lol
@J-Rokka - meh, he's new. i took it on the chin. now i'm playing a summoner *poring thru books again* :)
@Kolokotroni - yeh, now we specify that we're wandering through 'temperate forests' (CR 5) lol
@J-Rokka - meh, he's new. i took it on the chin. now i'm playing a summoner *poring thru books again* :)
Well thats good, now you have summons and an eidolon that can sacrifice themselves while you run away from the next unreasonable random encounter.
I don't think it was unreasonable at all. Random ENCOUNTER doesn't mean random FIGHT or CONFLICT. It's a tight spot, sure, but not impossible.
They tried to kill him and take that loot, they deserved what came to them.
I don't think it was unreasonable at all. Random ENCOUNTER doesn't mean random FIGHT or CONFLICT. It's a tight spot, sure, but not impossible.
They tried to kill him and take that loot, they deserved what came to them.
Seems to me the OP tried to talk his way out of it but was forced into a combat with a very high CR monster. They were not initially trying to kill it. And even as a non-combat encounter, unless you wholeheartedly surrender, the high CR dragon has too high a perception/sense motive to bluff or use things like diplomacy, so short of a miracle, or a dm providing an easy out, you are going to be in a fight.
Sounds almost as overly epic as the Dungeons & Dragons 2 : Wrath Of The Dragon God movie they made starring Bruce Payne reprising his role as Damodar from the first movie.
In that movie the characters (which as far as I could tell were at LEAST 9th level, given that the elven wizardess had access to Teleport) wandered through some generic creepy woods to find this Goblin Village that supposedly holds the secret to flawed but powerful Scrying artifact made by the Demon Lord of Oozes Jubilex (it had some small chance of giving an imperfect vision and caused its previous owner to teleport into a wall).
On the way to the Village, the characters encounter the following...
A badass Liche, "Krex The Malign", who as far as I could tell was at least 18th level, who toyed with the party and summoned a swarm of Spectres on the party and chased them out his forest (he was a semi-antagonist who aided the main villian after this encounter (but he later turns on the same main villian and leaves Damodar in the lurch, laughing))
Ontop of that, a Gargantuan size White Dragon attacks them in the village, kills the party Cleric who takes it upon himself to stand infront of it with a Resist Energy spell and promptly dies from the massive cold damage from the breath weapon. (The party spectacularly kills it ah-hoc by spearing the dragon, throwing a flask of purple worm digestive acids that the rogue just HAPPENED to have (since when is that standard Rogue gear?...lol) and they channel a lightning bolt through the impaling spear causing the Dragon to promptly explode).
Thank the Gods the GM didnt run a game that had you putting up with those two, nevermind dealing with Falazure the Night Dragon (A Dragon God from the Draconomicon 3.5 D&D book no less), a Collosal Dracoliche Black Dragon which is what happened toward the end of the movie.
A 4th Level Party VS a CR 11 Gold Dragon is pretty much just as bad as these...lol, at least high CR encounters should be handled through nonviolent means but thats never a guarantee, still, your DM should try and be a little more lenient or more realistic with regards to the CR cap characters are supposed to face (Average Party Level + 5 is the suggested maximum CR they should face and then such a battle would consume alot of resources and likely carry several casualties).
The DM had a dungeon crawl organised where we'd make our way thru its minions and eventually be strong enough to take Goldie on, we stupidly decided to ambush it instead of going in the cave complex. We deserved it.
*spoiler*
@PoC - Yeh, what was with DnD 2? Admittedly, better than the first movie, but that's not saying much. It was quasi-relevant to the game i suppose until the end where the BBEG simply ran away on a horse! WTF?
Biggest letdown :(
The DM had a dungeon crawl organised where we'd make our way thru its minions and eventually be strong enough to take Goldie on, we stupidly decided to ambush it instead of going in the cave complex. We deserved it.
*spoiler*
@PoC - Yeh, what was with DnD 2? Admittedly, better than the first movie, but that's not saying much. It was quasi-relevant to the game i suppose until the end where the BBEG simply ran away on a horse! WTF?Biggest letdown :(
Petition for a good D&D movie. Ill sign up
Call me a pessimist, but that will never happen. I'll just settle for LoTR or Beowulf.
I could've had a template/monster pc if i wanted, but because i was a cerebremancer it would've hurt my caster lvl too much. Even if i was a straight wizard it would've.
Nah, he wasn't trying to railroad us, like i said if we took the dungeon crawl thru to the lair, we would've lvld up twice and it would've been a challenge, but a doable one. We shouldn't have waited outside for him.
Call me a pessimist, but that will never happen. I'll just settle for LoTR or Beowulf.
They may had killed the D&D movie franchise, but Pathfinder doesn't carry that stigma.
In a another thread James Jacobs stated that they have intentions of bringing Pathfinder to other medias, but they want to do it right, because if they fail they weren't likely to have another chance.
Humbly,
Yawar
They might want to build up a larger fanbase first.
They might want to build up a larger fanbase first.
Yeah, but getting into other media is a way getting a larger fabase. I got initiated to D&D by playing Neverwinter Nights.
But also, you need a large enough fanbase first to warrant the success on the product. That or making a genuinly very high quality product with a proper marketing.
Humbly,
Yawar