Good on yer mate...the honour of the Commonwealth now lies with you.
Not that we want put any pressure on you off course
;)
Congrats Matt G., I didn't vote for you, but I think this will turn out nice.
Congrats, Matt. I may not have voted for you, but I'm not at all unhappy about your winning. Because now Golarion finally gets to go Bollywood, and there are no losers in that equation!
I like it.. a lot!
Sure there are nitpicks, but it's a brief not the final version; there are supposed to be.
I'll pick my biggest like and dislike..
Like the authenticity and feel the setting evokes. Don't listen to anyone saying to ditch or simplify the names. If anything, at the first mention of a new, potentially tough-to-pronounce word add a parenthetical with phonetic guide.
Dislike the name, as many others do. Go with something like Darkness Falls on Jalmeray or something. A little double meaning, as darkness has fallen across the land and will fall at the hands of the PCs.
Congratulations on the win!
Congratulations Matt, you have done Australia proud!
Aussie? Aussie? Aussie?
Oye? Oye? Oye?
Anyone?
Good try Neil! But its now time for us to put in the boot, given that Matt was pipped for:
Also, watch out for British spelling vs. American spelling. It's "toward," not "towards." And "center," not "centre."
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!
Googling 'Oye Oye Oye' brings up all sorts of un-Australian nastiness. (;-P and jokes aside I'll shout the 'Oi' to your 'Aussie' anytime)Again Matt, well done mate!
Good try Neil! Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! Oi Oi Oi!
Googling 'Oye Oye Oye' brings up all sorts of un-Australian nastiness.
Interesting. I actually typed it as, "Oi, Oi, Oi," originally. But then, I wondered if I'd spelled it right, so I Googled it and the first thing to come up was "Oye, Oye, Oye." So I changed it. Shoulda stuck with my first instinct, I guess. :-)
I like the conception. It has great elements and the climax of the giant swan is right out of legend. It needs to be researched (see comments under Weseley #2) but would be a great start to open up a new land mass in PF. Personally, I LOVE the bird chase. All the city folk will talk about the funny looking strangers who captured the sacred bird and saved the sultan's family . . .surely, this is a sign from the gods (sending heroes that save the sultan). Bird in the beginning, bird in the end . . .change the swan to a peacock!
How about a title suggested from Indian Mythology?
I have to say I am DISAPPOINTED in some of the senior staff responses. . . . .
Wesley
1. I agree it could be a bit much for the word count, but it is definitely cool. I LOVE the local color aspects. I am TIRED of Ye Aulde Dungeon Craul.
2. Or the Captian of the Guard . . .ideally, not someone to be suspected off hand. Realisitically, you might have to cloak an alignment to make this work. HOW that is done should NOT be cheesy.
3. Detective work and being a target introduces a degree of Romance and Mystery, in the classical genre sense, that is usually lacking in modules. A+ for telling a story!
4. I like the three bosses and think you should include them. How will the depleted party deal with the Big Bad Guy at the end of the story? Alternately, the three bosses would make another great module, automatically escaping after putting in a cameo appearance. Cheesey sequel however. I hear screams of NO FAIR already.
James Jacobs
James, you sound like an ENTJ with designs of generic cardboard dancing in your head. I say this in jest, peace!
The BAD points by point
1 So, what would be a good title? If you don't like it, please give a few suggestions about what YOU would like to SEE.
2 I agree whatever the regular format is, the adventure should follow. It essentially is a screen play or story board, so you can call the segments whatever you want. I thought this was really too small to mention. This sounds like the old argument, should we use bullets or numbers in our proposal?
3 Kalavei is Kali by any other name. . . .and the Indian gods and goddesses often have multiple aspects. So pick a diety and give it a mask. Surely there are enough deceptive dieties to fulfil this.
4 And I would rather have a bird chase to introduce the party to the sultan. Getting hired is way too common in this game, it is PERVASIVE from the few modules I have seen thus far. It is the FIRST THING I ASK. YECH! Cardboard alert!
5 I think he was trying to emulate a Second Language speaker . . .I mean a rakasta doesn't speak Taldane as a first language. I think you are being a tad picky here.
6 I AGREE 100%! Convert the Notes and Maps to Secret Signs and Clues. Sense Motive, Linguistics, Perception.
7 So why cut the local color? Why cut something that adds to the exotic? Cardboard alert!
8 I think this comment is too off hand to be fair. You like the monster but are unhappy with the module due to level. Uh huh.
9 Several years ago??? SEVERAL? ??? Is this even past the copywright?
10 Since its a another culture, maybe they have confusing terminology? This is actually the case in India and moreso in China. Deva is borrowed from Asian Indian culture. In this case, the game designers borrowed the word from the historical content. I don't see anything wrong with that. Cardboard alert!
11 The link is working now.
12 Actually the false climax is what ratchets up the tension. Cutting that would be anticlimatic and 'durn shame'. Change the swan to a peacock, to unify with the opening scene. Cardboard alert!
Wesley
1. OK, so the WHOLE editorial staff DOES NOT LIKE THE NAME. Where are the suggestions for an alt? I mean to tell someone their stuff sucks and leave it at that is unprofessional.
2. If Paizo has been thinking about an Asian Indian setting, how about getting the History of India from PBS? It has the 6000 yr history of India on it. You might choose a middle period, when there were TWO Indian empires that were the last Late Classical civilizations. At least it would give you some historical context and then you could go deeper with whatever epoch you desired. Slum Dog Millionaire and the Indian catfish epsiode of River Monsters will give you some ideas as well. In River Monsters, pay attention to the train ride and how difficult the terrain is for the land rovers.
Sean
Death metal band . . .well humorous.
1. OK, so the WHOLE editorial staff DOES NOT LIKE THE NAME. Where are the suggestions for an alt? I mean to tell someone their stuff sucks and leave it at that is unprofessional.
It's the judges' responsibility to offer criticism, not suggest corrections to things they perceive as problems. Also, we want people voting on the competitor's proposal, not the proposal plus whatever stuff the judges would do to make the proposal cooler or fix problems--especially if they didn't offer equal advice to all four proposals.
However, now that Matt has won..he goes into development hell.Right Sean?
1. OK, so the WHOLE editorial staff DOES NOT LIKE THE NAME. Where are the suggestions for an alt? I mean to tell someone their stuff sucks and leave it at that is unprofessional.It's the judges' responsibility to offer criticism, not suggest corrections to things they perceive as problems. Also, we want people voting on the competitor's proposal, not the proposal plus whatever stuff the judges would do to make the proposal cooler or fix problems--especially if they didn't offer equal advice to all four proposals.
Sean, I thought your comments the least caustic.
My point was: (1) telling someone that this sucks or it sounds like a death metal band still isn't professional IMHO; and (2) if he won the contest and the proposal is being scrubbed in an open comment period, then aren't the judges no longer judges but editors and developers? Did I miss something here?
Moving on . . . .
Here is the link to The Story of India
http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=3407489&cp=&sr=1 &f=PAD%2FFormat%2FDVD&kw=india&origkw=India&parentPage=sear ch
and River Monsters
http://animal.discovery.com/tv/river-monsters/episode/episode.html
click on Goonch, supposedly a maneating Himalyan catfish. Interesting info on travelling in northern India and 'local color'.
I might add that Mr. Wade also investigates the Wels catfish, a European catfish that grows to enormous size, as a potential maneater. And I do mean a maneater. Medieval East European record wels to 20 feet and capable of swallowing a man whole.
Thanks NeonParrot for your support and ideas. The judges comments were posted at the start of the voting period. One thing I've learnt from this contest is to take critism and comments, even from the judges, with a grain of salt. :-) I really appreciate you posting up extra ideas to help with the adventure. The 'river monsters' episode looks very interesting, I've heard that this is a reccuring Indian legend.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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Speaking as a former contestant, I'd rather the judges be themselves and give it to me straight than hold back. We can take it. That too, is the way I prefer to be: straight from the hip, not rude of course, but shoot straight without political correctness, second guessing, hem hawing, P&Q watching or what have you. IMHO, of course. :)
Since contestants can't change or comment on their submission until voting is closed, offering suggestions doesn't really do anyone any good anyway. If judges sent comments to the authors first and they had time to revise their entries before they went public, that would be a different story. As it is, Sean, James, and Wes will have plenty of opportunities during the development process to suggest changes and improvements in a manner that will actually serve to affect the final piece.
My point was: (1) telling someone that this sucks or it sounds like a death metal band still isn't professional IMHO; and (2) if he won the contest and the proposal is being scrubbed in an open comment period, then aren't the judges no longer judges but editors and developers? Did I miss something here?
Yes, you missed that this contest has been going on for three months, and by now the contestants should know that they're going to get honest, perhaps brutal evaluations from the judges. That's because this isn't a casual competition--the winner gets his adventure published and paid money for it. They should take it seriously; if one of the Top 4 submitted an adventure proposal called Bellyflop of the Giant Turd Monster, and the proposal was full of scatological "humor," references to real-world people, and made no sense, it's my job to point out that the submission is ridiculous, inappropriate, and should be disqualified from the competition even before anyone gets a vote. That's the worst-case scenario. As a judge, I'm supposed to be honest in my feedback, whether positive or negative, and the competitor needs to know that I'm being honest and not (1) deliberately trying to make him feel bad, or (2) stroking his ego so he knows he's a beautiful unique snowflake. So whether the quality of the proposal (including the name) is A, B, C, D, or F, the competitor needs to know, and why.
Also keep in mind that when the competition started in December, we judges had to filter out hundreds of unexciting and just plain bad wondrous item submissions. We had submissions that were truly disgusting, to the extent that there's one of them that I simply can't repeat here. Saying, "this is awful, this is disgusting, there's no way we could publish this" isn't unprofessional, any more than "the name of this adventure proposal isn't very good" isn't unprofessional.
And you're also forgetting that Wes, Clark, myself, and the other guest judges are doing this on our own free time without compensation. I spent many weekends and weeknights in December, January, and February reading and evaluating submissions--which, mind you, is also my day job. If I never let myself make jokes about some things in these submissions (and some have parts that are quite funny, intentionally or otherwise), this competition would be a chore. Being able to laugh about it makes it fun despite all the work involved. You've never worked with me, but ask any of my freelancers--when I have to tell them they goof up something, I like to throw in a little joke or funny comment just to take the sting out of it. After all, my general document of writing rules for my freelancers is called Freelancer Advice and Punishments... a document that not only points out that lists of items should be alphabetized, it actually includes a "sample alphabet" just in case the freelancer forgets the order of letters in the alphabet.* It's funny. It's fun. So when I say "Ebon Destroyers sounds more like a teenager's death metal band than an evil cult," I'm making light of something that I think needs to change--something that I probably would change if it crossed my desk, so I may as well train the writer to take care of it first.
TLDR: (1) We're judges, not nannies, sometimes we're going to have negative comments; that's not unprofessional. (2) The judges have to filter out a lot of crap, and not liking a name is a pretty mild admonishment compared to some of the things you haven't seen us say about some of the really bad submissions. (3) If judges can't make a light-hearted poke at a cliché title, judges will burn out and won't want to be judges any more.
* Another example of this teasing is regarding author Todd Stewart; his book The Great Beyond was supposed to be about 45,000 words, but his actual turnover was almost 60,000 words (about 15 pages over). I still give Todd a hard time about this almost 2 years later, making jokes about if we need a 32-page book on something we just tell Todd to write a 2,000 word article, and so on. It's all in good fun. And if he does it again, I'll punish him (or, to borrow a term from Fred Saberhagen, "punish, punish").
Creative Director
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To me, not calling out an author on a bad idea would be the unprofessional route.
My job as creative director is to make sure bad ideas stay away from print, after all. And part of the job of EVERY editor/developer in the industry is to help shape and guide authors' work so that it's better than it was to begin with. That's just kind of how the writing industry (not just the RPG industry) works, after all.
I don't usually sugarcoat my responses to authors, in any event, but nor do I go out of my way to be mean or antagonistic in my feedback. Honesty is the key here.
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Chief Technical Officer
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... if he won the contest and the proposal is being scrubbed in an open comment period, then aren't the judges no longer judges but editors and developers? Did I miss something here?
Apparently you missed that the judges posted their commentary prior to the start of the voting period, long before he won the competition.
Also, the editing and development will take place behind closed doors, not in this thread. This is a thread for commenting on a contest entry, not an open development session or playtest.
Finally, while it's one thing to disagree with the judges, stating that they did their judging job in an unprofessional manner, and suggesting that you know how to do that job better than they do, is both arrogant and ignorant.
Finally, while it's one thing to disagree with the judges, stating that they did their judging job in an unprofessional manner, and suggesting that you know how to do that job better than they do, is both arrogant and ignorant.
I'm not at all agreeing with NeonParrot, but virtually every criticism leveled towards a judge has stemmed from the confusion on whether this is supposed to be stern and serious or whether it's supposed to be light-hearted and fun. Several of the judges' comments about professionalism and viewing-this-as-an-extended-job-interview could easily be construed as suggesting that quips about death metal aren't appropriate.
Again, I don't agree with that, but it isn't difficult to see where the confusion comes from. And I don't think that "the judges are always right" is a very classy response: I like to think that they would catch flack if their comments were wildly inappropriate, but that that simply wouldn't happen because they're all professionals.
As Sean explained, "Professionalism" in the RPG industry doesn't mean "no fun".
I still give Todd a hard time about this almost 2 years later, making jokes about if we need a 32-page book on something we just tell Todd to write a 2,000 word article, and so on.
Heheheh.
Of course, being guilty of this myself, why am I laughing? :)
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Chief Technical Officer
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...virtually every criticism leveled towards a judge has stemmed from the confusion on whether this is supposed to be stern and serious or whether it's supposed to be light-hearted and fun. Several of the judges' comments about professionalism and viewing-this-as-an-extended-job-interview could easily be construed as suggesting that quips about death metal aren't appropriate.
...
As Sean explained, "Professionalism" in the RPG industry doesn't mean "no fun".
I think that last sentence is indeed a good answer to the confusion you cited above.
"Stern and serious" or "light-hearted and fun" aren't the only choices—given that we're professional gamers, "serious and fun" is a better goal.
I still give Todd a hard time about this almost 2 years later, making jokes about if we need a 32-page book on something we just tell Todd to write a 2,000 word article, and so on.Heheheh.
Of course, being guilty of this myself, why am I laughing? :)
Tragedy is when it happens to you. Comedy is when it happens to the other guy.
Going over the Jalmeray entry again, according to the Campaign setting, the Thukur really doesn't have much say over what goes on in Jalmeray anyway...
I think a more traditional 'kidnap and ransom' thing may be called for here, or 'kidnap and sacrifice'.
Glad you noticed that, the Thukur is a symbol as well as a leader/figurehead. This is why the Thukur had to call on his advisors to outlaw the cult, his word alone might not have been enough. This is also the reason that when the PCs meet with the Thukur, it is all done through Naasim. Lastly it is also the reason that the cult is striking at the symbol of leadership. If they can force the Thukur to back down, or kill the Thukur, they show the power of the cult to the whole of Jalmeray.
Have a look at Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible, it also has a some small implications about the power of the Thukur.
The Thakur of Jalmeray recognizes the great service you have done for his country and spreads the word of your deeds to the corners of the island.
Hope that helps clarify things.
Good points, I guess it comes down to how much you read into each source. Your analogy of modern European royalty is what I was thinking as well, not much tangible power but plenty of prestige and a great lifestyle. That said, if you wanted to strike at heart of a nation, the death or loss of power by even a figurehead ruler can have major repercussions.
I'll definitely consider all of these things so that they logically fit.
(Note to self: More proofreading of fantasy words in manuscript :-)
That's why Matt's a superstar.
That's why Matt's a superstar.
Thanks Mark.
I think it will be a squeeze but I'm hoping to get it all in. I felt that Realm of the Fellnight Queen was very true to the proposal. It was tight but well done, props to Neil, Sean, and the whole Paizo Development Team. I've been fiddling with stat blocks for mine and seeing exactly how many words each eats. This thread is going to be very useful at cut back time for what people liked and what they didn't.
I don't know if its been mentioned, but the description of the "garuda" is very close to the race of bird-men in China Mieville's New Crobuzon books...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka Benchak the Nightstalker
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I don't know if its been mentioned, but the description of the "garuda" is very close to the race of bird-men in China Mieville's New Crobuzon books...
Understandable, being that both are derived from mythology:
Or are you saying you feel Matt's interpretation is especially similar to Mieville's?
Hmm. A BBC radio documentary here the other day ('A history of the World in 100 objects' series) mentioned there was an Indian war deity who rode a peacock. (It was the episode talking about gold coins of one of the Indian kings, Kumaragupta (spelling?).)
With the peacock you had in the proposal, I was wondering if there was some way you could work that in?
Anyway, just a random thought.
Interesting stuff. The gold coins thing sounds familiar, sounds a bit like something in Curse of the Crimson Throne. The I'm still a bit worried about fitting everything in, but I'll see what I can do.
Cool, I get what you mean. Most of the Hindu Indian gods have a mount/animal (Vahana): Kali/Durga has a tiger, Vishnu has Garuda, Shiva has a bull (Nandi), Ganesha has a big rat (Mooshika), Indra has the elephant and so on. Not sure if I can fit a squadron of war-peacocks into the adventure :-), but it does show how much there is to the Indian pantheon and mythology.
RPGSuperstar 2011 Round 5 Calibration post:
(statement)
(opening question)
To be frank, no. An escaped bird is something they're not going to be inclined to have anything to do with; in fact they'll probably go out of the way to avoid any contact with it, figuring that damaging it even unintentionally is asking for trouble.
The only possibility which currently comes to my mind for their becoming involved is that the Thakur becomes desperate enough to start looking for investigative agents and somehow comes upon or is put into contact with A via her church of Gorum connections.
(general comment)
It's not going to take them long to spot that Pravazek has a hidden agenda - at which point the jig is up for the treacherous advisor and he will be 'persuaded' by the ladies by one means or another to spill absolutely everything that he knows about the cult.
At that point it's a question of merely whether they hand the business back to the Thakur for his guards to wrap up, or whether for personal reasons (such as a temple full of exotic art and arcane secrets waiting to be looted) they stick with things for a bit longer. Mortal conspiracies and intrigues have an unfortunate habit of falling apart rather rapidly once several succubi are on the trail...
(concluding question)
Well, the Thakur of Jalmeray will owe the church of Gorum a pretty big favour for arranging the assistance of A and her friends. From a political point of view, the Thakur might find it convenient of course to be 'obliged' to introduce or honour the church of a deity beyond the current popular Jalmeray ones.
Rating:
Strictly minimal. In fact owing to the rapidity with which the four will unearth Pravezak, casualties might actually be down on what they could otherwise have been. At least until the church of Gorum calls in that favour, that is...
Hated this module with a passion. Not so much with the story side but with the encounters that are designed to kill. Flying archer that does tonnes of damage and displacement, fair enough we eventually struggled through.
However the combat that actually left me angry was the one with the multi arm thing with a CMD of 40+ as I constantly failed to tumble through as it just sat on the square to enter the room.
1 on 1 fighting with that thing used up all our resources and perma blinded one of our characters.
At this point we walked away to rest and they bad guys all dissapeared.
First time I've left a game angry and I rate this as the worst adventure i've played in a long long time. 3PA 2xp and 4 gaming nights wasted so to top it off my character has fallen even further behind in the gold / pa front. Not happy.