Ever have that problem of you kill some major NPC only to have him come back again and again.
Current game I am playing the bad guys have a 17th lvl cleric in their employ and almost endless funds. So as we go up in levels (one day to take on said cleric and the rest of the high level bad guys) we keep killing the same guy over and over.
True Resurrection sort of puts a damper on just killing him. We need a solution of holding said bad guy where the high level guys cannot resurrect or locate.
Any ideas on how to perma kill the bad guys? Oh and stuff a good party would do (not goign to feed him to a shadow then put up a permanate antimagic zone, that would not be good to feed NPC to a shadow).
Right now we have him baleful polymorphed into a turlte, dumped a sequester on him and planed shifted to the happy hunting grounds and asked a few angles if they could protect our evil turtle for us. Though the angels are not happy having an evil turtle sitting around.
Any other ideas?
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Sanctify the Wicked from BoED? XD
Sounds like you've really done all you can. If the DM wants this guy to be a thorn in your side, the only real option to a high level party that won't use Soul Jar or selling his soul to devils is to keep him on a leash or kill every high level cleric that would rez him. And it probably still wouldn't work.
What about putting the BBEG in temporal stasis and building an epic-level vault to contain him? I'd think it could be fun trying to design your own Tomb of Horrors to contain some ultra-evil from the world. :)
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I extremely doubt the gm would let you somehow find a Helm of Opposite Alignment :(
One Wish or Miracle from an ally and he'd be right back. :/
Basically, you're fighting the GM, not the NPC on this one. Maybe he thinks it's a good story, maybe he thinks it's funny. Your best bet is to play with it.
Have your characters consult their gods about how to imprison/reform/permanently deal with this guy. That should tell the GM that your characters have had enough of this guy. Go on the long quest to gather the components or fulfill the requisites, and use the method the gods have given you.
And if he comes back after that, tell the GM you're bloody sick of it and he needs to stop with the DMPC and antagonistic style.
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Ever have that problem of you kill some major NPC only to have him come back again and again.
Current game I am playing the bad guys have a 17th lvl cleric in their employ and almost endless funds. So as we go up in levels (one day to take on said cleric and the rest of the high level bad guys) we keep killing the same guy over and over.
True Resurrection sort of puts a damper on just killing him. We need a solution of holding said bad guy where the high level guys cannot resurrect or locate.
Any ideas on how to perma kill the bad guys? Oh and stuff a good party would do (not goign to feed him to a shadow then put up a permanate antimagic zone, that would not be good to feed NPC to a shadow).
Right now we have him baleful polymorphed into a turlte, dumped a sequester on him and planed shifted to the happy hunting grounds and asked a few angles if they could protect our evil turtle for us. Though the angels are not happy having an evil turtle sitting around.
Any other ideas?
"Trap the Soul" spell is an option. Enchant the gem with Nondetection and then carry the gem in a necklace?
The helm idea is good, but they can wish or miracle there guy back to the dark side.
Trap the soul and nondetection on the gem is proably the best bet. Trap the Soul is not an evil spell so we can use it. Just have to get a scroll of it then, since we do not have access to said spell yet.
Oh and we are playing pure Pathfinder, so no use of BoED <sigh>
I like the reaccuring issue... we have the DM in a quandry right now with the turtle swimming around a pool that happens to have Solars in the area. Bad guy would be risking a lot to plane shift there. hahaha
flesh to stone followed by a bag of holding.
If you're not dead, you're not getting resurrected. If your body is in an extradimensional space being carried by your enemies, you're not getting killed or rescued.
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What about the imprisonment spell? This seems like what it was made for. Combine it with mindblank and he is pretty much gone for good except for literally divine intervention, and it that is the case then not much you can do about that.
That one's a good idea to, but it sounds like divine intervention is what is already happening here. (dodn't know for sure though). Imprisonment on a Good aligned plane however might really do the trick.
1 The Confinement:
-Put a Ring of Sustenance on him.
-Ask your DM for custom air reclying item or similar.
-Lock him in a lead covered room underground.
-Order a construct to beat him with nonlethal damage continually.
2 The Imprisionment:
-In said ¨Happy Hunting Grounds¨ dig and build an undergoud place a lead covered room.
-Erase tracks.
-Cast Imprisionment on the badie
3 Old Age
-Restrain the baddie
-Place a curse of Ages on him
-Stall
-Combine with 1 for bonus points.
Humbly,
Yawar
Imprisonment can be undon by spells pretty easily for a group fo 17+ lvl bad guys
Though if I could get ahold of a scroll of it and imprison him in the seven heavens using some major highly guarded angle scantuary as the location to cast the spell.
Yeah bad guys find the location he was imprisoned at but goign there and casting the spells will be tough.
1 The Confinement:
-Put a Ring of Sustenance on him.
-Ask your DM for custom air reclying item or similar.
-Lock him in a lead covered room underground.
-Order a construct to beat him with nonlethal damage continually.Humbly,
Yawar
Now that is the kind of thoughts I was looking for!
Drop forbadance in the area to disallow teleportion and he is a lock!
Oh for the air just slap a necklace of adaptation on him.
If you want to go completely crazy, make sure that your opponent is alive but unable to defend self. Jump to another plane, find something large enough to swallow your enemy and feed him to it. Before the effects of being swallowed kill him (and you can buff him with protection from acid or similar to help here) use imprisonment on the creature. (Not your enemy.) Anyone wishing to rescue your recurring nemesis must find the spot where this occurred, and then find the name of the random beastie that swallowed him in order to use freedom. Good luck with that.
(I had more ideas, but I took so long to type them in that a lot of them got ninja'd by faster replies.)
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Could you use a Gate spell to summon some inevitables (the kind that don't like tampering with natural order) and point out the cleric to them?
You could also go on a hunt for a Sphere of Annihilation. That's a perma-kill, IIRC.
Of course, these ideas don't matter if your DM is trying to beat the party rather than tell a good story. You'll never win that battle.
How to handle the situation?
Eat their soul. :9
Seriously. Kill them, capture their soul, and then destroy it. Take pleasure in the process if that's your thing too. It certainly is for me and mine.
They are the good guys. Utter aniquilation is not an option.
Thats why you must make him suffer eternal torment, a fate worse than death.
Humbly,
Yawar
How to handle the situation?
Eat their soul. :9
Seriously. Kill them, capture their soul, and then destroy it. Take pleasure in the process if that's your thing too. It certainly is for me and mine.
They are the good guys. Utter aniquilation is not an option.
Thats why you must make him suffer eternal torment, a fate worse than death.
Humbly,
Yawar
I think the best bet is to talk to the GM. If this has happened more than once, she needs to find a new villan. I'm pretty sure "Don't demoralize your players." is pretty high on the GM rules list...
Well, depending on exactly HOW good you guys are, I've got an idea.
The villain has to be willing to return from the dead. You could capture him, and somehow make his soul unwilling to return. Lesser evils might include threatening him with all the pain he's gonna be in if they ever see him around again (remember, they've beaten him several times, he should have a certain respect of their abilities!), or taking an object "hostage", for example the temple of his god. Instead of destroying it, just take it under control and tell him that as long as he won't return, you won't destroy it.
More evil actions might involve taking people he cares about hostage (even most evil people care about someone) or torturing him.
Our DM is not over using it... just happened once. We killed him and they resurrected him, and a few levels later he was back.
So I was thinking, ok, let me nip this in the butt and lets perma kill off some of the BBEGs we run into. We know the end guys of the campaign are 17th lvl to 20th lvl and some major demons. So to reduce the possiblity of needing to kill something multiple times I was looking for simple solutions to hedge this off at the pass.
Plus I have used the whole reoccuring bad guy before, and it would be nice to know of perma ways so when I DM next I know what to protect my BBEGs from myself. hahahaha
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Our DM is not over using it... just happened once. We killed him and they resurrected him, and a few levels later he was back.
So I was thinking, ok, let me nip this in the butt and lets perma kill off some of the BBEGs we run into. We know the end guys of the campaign are 17th lvl to 20th lvl and some major demons. So to reduce the possiblity of needing to kill something multiple times I was looking for simple solutions to hedge this off at the pass.
Plus I have used the whole reoccuring bad guy before, and it would be nice to know of perma ways so when I DM next I know what to protect my BBEGs from myself. hahahaha
It's a trap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our DM is not over using it... just happened once. We killed him and they resurrected him, and a few levels later he was back.
So I was thinking, ok, let me nip this in the butt and lets perma kill off some of the BBEGs we run into. We know the end guys of the campaign are 17th lvl to 20th lvl and some major demons. So to reduce the possiblity of needing to kill something multiple times I was looking for simple solutions to hedge this off at the pass.
Plus I have used the whole reoccuring bad guy before, and it would be nice to know of perma ways so when I DM next I know what to protect my BBEGs from myself. hahahaha
As a GM, I think that if the players make an honest effort to make sure a villan doesn;t come back, then he shouldn't come back. Finding some loophole or whatever is kind of a jerk move in my opinion. Especially if he comes back again and again.
Find someone else ot be the badguy.
The lower level way to "permakill" the bad guy is to bring him back yourself as undead and control him.
I will have to disagree a reoccuring bad guy can be rather fun and exciting.
In a Ravenloft campaign I ran there was a vampire that kept attackign the party, they woudl kill it and watch his mist form drift off into the night again and again. They did not have the means necessary to find the coffin.
But they really would enjoy when Kavin would pop back in. Eventually they got high enough level to were it was fun to fight Kavin the Grim. They would take turns on who should kill him this time.
Became a almost a running gag.
To have that reoccuring bad guy can be fun if done correctly. Don't have the reoccuring guy be the party kill guy, but rather the annoying "Why is he still alive" guy.
if the cleric they are using is not evil some of the spells from princes of darkness can damn souls to hell, although I would guess that the cleric is evil so that does not work.
I would say a wish spell could possibly be used to lock away his soul, also depending on how the campaign is set up you could also perform a raid on whatever plane his soul is going to. Steal the soul or destroy it entirely. Though depending again on the campaign that might ruffle a few feathers with whatever entity is on that plane.
If all else fails... make something up. Develop your own spell to do it.
I have two words for you. It's not instant, but it requires NO spells to be cast, will get rid of your "reoccurring bad guy" infestation, AND will actually have him working for YOU instead of the bad guys, and no spell short of enchantments and charms (which could be undone by you!) could turn him back.
Stockholm's Syndrome.
:D
Umm....Hrmm....What about a series of Polymorph Any Object spells.
1. Human -> Stone statue
2. Stone statue -> stone pebble
3. stone pebble -> grey ioun stone
Then use the rules from Seeker's of Secrets to implant the ioun stone on your person. Good luck to anyone trying to fix that.
Umm....Hrmm....What about a series of Polymorph Any Object spells.
1. Human -> Stone statue
2. Stone statue -> stone pebble
3. stone pebble -> grey ioun stoneThen use the rules from Seeker's of Secrets to implant the ioun stone on your person. Good luck to anyone trying to fix that.
Isn't that the ending plot of Diablo?
You can see how well that worked out for that hero in Diablo II. :D
Well, Diablo was a demon :P with crazy corrupty powers.
True enough. But even so, if a player turned a BBEG into an ion stone and implanted it, after a while his trapped soul would start merging psyches with the players. Alignment shifts, compulsions, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde sort of stuff would start happening. And should the player be weak willed, after some time of this, he might possibly just lose his own mind entirely to the bad guy and become an NPC. Not much different from many other existing cursed items out there.
It's a bad road from a players perspective, and he'd be playing with fire. As a DM, i see lots of fun plot twists and turns and hooks! So yeah. I'd encourage this as a DM... but as a player, be warned.
True enough. But even so, if a player turned a BBEG into an ion stone and implanted it, after a while his trapped soul would start merging psyches with the players. Alignment shifts, compulsions, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde sort of stuff would start happening. And should the player be weak willed, after some time of this, he might possibly just lose his own mind entirely to the bad guy and become an NPC. Not much different from many other existing cursed items out there.
It's a bad road from a players perspective, and he'd be playing with fire. As a DM, i see lots of fun plot twists and turns and hooks! So yeah. I'd encourage this as a DM... but as a player, be warned.
I'd just rule that a rocks a rock myself.
And miss out on all of the cinematic story telling possibilities? As a DM you're telling a story, jazz it up! Don't be boring :P
Which is why i think fixing the OP's original problem with a Stockholm Syndrome Scenario would be SO much more interesting to the game's story than just finding some boring magic-rules-lawyering loophole to trap him or turn him into a rock.
Mythic tales and legendary epics aren't told about how heroes rules-lawyered their foe into a rock.
But it's grand fun if someone casts Remove Curse on the rock.
underground railroad, but think of it more like a prison system then a road to freedom.
Ever have that problem of you kill some major NPC only to have him come back again and again.
Current game I am playing the bad guys have a 17th lvl cleric in their employ and almost endless funds. So as we go up in levels (one day to take on said cleric and the rest of the high level bad guys) we keep killing the same guy over and over.
True Resurrection sort of puts a damper on just killing him. We need a solution of holding said bad guy where the high level guys cannot resurrect or locate.
Any ideas on how to perma kill the bad guys? Oh and stuff a good party would do (not goign to feed him to a shadow then put up a permanate antimagic zone, that would not be good to feed NPC to a shadow).
Right now we have him baleful polymorphed into a turlte, dumped a sequester on him and planed shifted to the happy hunting grounds and asked a few angles if they could protect our evil turtle for us. Though the angels are not happy having an evil turtle sitting around.
Any other ideas?
You have to be willing to be resurected. Find some place / "heaven" / person / thing that he doesn't want to leave. Make it if you have to :) If the DM wants to bring him back badly enough it won't work of course. Otherwise I think they'd have to find a new front man...
I like the reaccuring issue... we have the DM in a quandry right now with the turtle swimming around a pool that happens to have Solars in the area.
Now I want to do this to a BBEG. XD
Ever have that problem of you kill some major NPC only to have him come back again and again.
The earliest awailable way is probably Flesh to Stone, grind to sand, dump into ocean. Not technically dead=no resurrection.
Of course, this relies on a rules techicality and is awfully inconvenient for anyone who's not a wizard. But otherwise... does Trap the Soul still work in PF?
Depending on your characters levels, resources and game:
It seems your of a high enough level that planar travel and knowledge are not a problem. Also if your able to wrangle deals with high celestials then that also indicates a certain level of power.
Research which of the outer or lower realms has the fastest flow of time, relative to the prime you are from. Entrap your prisoner there until he ages to death.
No magic available to mortals is able to counteract death due to old age.
It may also be possible to research a spell that does this but the use of it could be construed as evil and if it is a spell then there puts in the option that it can be counteracted.
It's a trap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get an Axe...