Hi im in for a rough fight!
I play a lvl 21 Elemental (air) sorcerer,
Im locked in a throneroom With a Balor,(cr20)
What would be the best setup of spells and feats vs this beast ??
and what would be then vest tactics against him ? the sourounding around me is stone and like 50x50 yards big,
would love some tip on this one. and dont tell me teleport hahah :)
Thanks
/M
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Hi im in for a rough fight!
I play a lvl 21 Elemental (air) sorcerer,
Im locked in a throneroom With a Balor,(cr20)
What would be the best setup of spells and feats vs this beast ??
and what would be then vest tactics against him ? the sourounding around me is stone and like 50x50 yards big,would love some tip on this one. and dont tell me teleport hahah :)
Thanks
/M
Spell list? Items? Feats? Other party members?
Wait... Why are you asking about feats? You will have to deal with whatever feats your character has, no?
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You're by yourself?
Uh Oh!!!
Avoid getting into melee at ALL costs. Bump yourself beforehand with as much movement as you can and use FULL movement each round before you standard action your spell. Dimension Door is your friend in this fight -- a few Quickend Dimension Doors will be nice.
Remember. Once you kill him he goes boom doing another 150HP of damage all around. You gotta make the killing blow from a safe distance away.
Or, actually, use Monster Summoning to conjure another monster and while the Balor spends 3 rounds obliterating that, you spend 3 rounds withdrawing and run like hell (maybe even to Hell since the Balor won't likely follow)
Items i have only a Celestial armor ( been prisoner and armor was the only thing i got back in my escape,)
im wonder in what whay ppl would have build their sorcerer with the only limitation,
lvl 21 , elemtal ( air ) spellist and feat should be pure anti balor made,
if u could choose freely, what would it be?
I have a DM to break ;) he doesent need to know im getting some help :p
Thanks for ur time :)
LOL
love the answers so far :)
it´s more like ,, I bet i can make a lvl 21 sourcer that could beat ur balor,,
Try to hit it with Death effects, sonic damage, and force damage as often as you can. Try limiting the field with a few walls of force. Balors have constant true seeing, so dont bother with spells like displacement. A fun idea is to box him in with a few walls offorce until his air runs out. prepare six walls of force, six permanencies, and watch a balor turn blue.
At least it isnt a Balor Lord
:)
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Yeah, there are so many ways you could build a 21st level sorcerer that it's impossible to give any specific tactical advice. Feats, spells, special abilities, and gear are all hugely important.
However, one tactic that you might try is: roleplay. Try talking with the balor first, perhaps bluffing it or negotiating a truce with it somehow, or even cowing it (maybe by convincing it you are a polymorphed demon lord yourself or something).
Is the only solution to this scenario the death of you or the balor? Or is merely escaping with your hide intact enough?
Off the top of my head, I'd suggest using time stop every round and gating in lots of solars or the like to fight the balor for you while time is paused, maybe burning charges off a rod of maximize spell (greater) to get the maximum time stop duration each time.
:)
Escape is no problem, i have that coverd.. im just reading the stats in the pathfinder Beastiary, and it makes me pist of that i cant find a glitch in that monsters armor,
I was thinking
Time stop, and put a wall o force in front of it, then one on each side to it, real tight, than transmute rock to mud under it, and then mud to rock, but the Balors reflex is way to high to make that strat safe,, if that would had worked i could start nuking it from behind with frost and spells like that,, yeah a diminsion lock would help from the balors teleport :p
sigh,, i need my thinking helmet ;)
You didn't answer to my question about feats.
Like Lilithsthrall, I am trying to understand how you got there...
Do you mean you are making up a character at this level, just for this fight?
Thanks again for all answers :)
realy appreciate it !
Seldriss.
In short Yes.
That's what I thought.
Well, I don't want to sound rude, but artificial encounters in a Pokemon style are not my style of game...
So I'm out.
i can respect that, it aint like that, but i dont want to put out my whole story, would take like forever to put it all out there. just getting a rough input how ppl would build thier anti balor build, but underastand and respect that u dont want to lay down ur time on this :)
thanks anyway :)
Well I hope you can survive it's Death Throes ability. That ones vicious assuming you can kill it.
You'll need something to keep you free of it's Entangle ability and the quickened telekinesis. You'll not be doing any spell casting vs. a DC 43+spell level concentration check.
Some fire resistance will be useful...
Are you sticking to Core or is 3.5 available? Cause if you can use 3.5 I know some things you could do off the top of my head.
I don't see how a single sorcerer can win this battle. The first thing that Balor is going to do is summon with 100% reliablity a Marilith. Once that happens it's game over.
its pathfinder corerules.
I'm going to laugh so hard when you the creator of this thread is ACTUALLY the GM, and you guys just told him all the player tactics to watch out for.
I think the only viable solution is time stop first round to erect defenses and summon meatshields. I just don't think it's possible for the sorceror to spam enough delayed blast fireballs to get through the Balor's SR, resistance to fire and saves.
Time Stop
Prismatic Sphere- secure base of operations
Gate - Call Advanced Planetar or Pit Fiend , etc.
Other buff spells as allowed by time stop time
Basically the sorceror will want to hang out in the Sphere and do potshots with various spells while remaining protected by the Blue, Indigo and Violet layers. While the Balor can probably break through the sphere in time it prevents the Sorceror from being hit with a full-attack 1-shot or a implosion effect.
Between your casting and your gated creature you should be able to take down the Balor and his inevitable Marlith ally.
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You could probably win outright with an imprisonment spell. You wouldn't even need to worry about the death throes (since it's not dead).
Your goal would be to jack up the Will save vs. the spell to 41. You'd also want the balor's name and some information about it (to apply the -4 penalty to its save). And you'd want to jack up your caster level/ability to overcome SR to overcome that as well. For a 21st level character both should be feasible, resulting in a low likelihood that the balor would pass both checks.
(Increasing the Will save via: starting Cha 20, putting all bonuses toward Cha advancement, +5 inherent bonus to Cha, +6 enhancement bonus to Cha, Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus (abjuration), just off the top of my head, should get you in the mid 30s on the save.)
(Increasing SR penetration would involve using items to jack up your caster level, like a strand of prayer beads' karma bead; taking Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration, etc.; not sure if there's an SR-lowering spell in Core Pathfinder.)
To further hedge your bets, use a greater quickening rod to do two imprisonment spells in the same round.
Oh, and have your familiar throw dust of sneezing and choking at it. It will pretty much auto-stun it for 5d4 rounds, and that assumes it DOES make a DC 15 Fort save, which requires it to roll a 2 or better. Unless balors are immune to being stunned?
its pathfinder corerules.
Wish twenty-one different 20th level paladins into the arena with you.
It'll be tough. Since they will get Will saves to resist it and most 20th level paladins are going to have about a +20 Will save, but that's why you're summoning so many. As you're able to summon them from anywhere on any plane. A few will fail.
So, you're 21st level, right? As in, you have access to 9th level spells?
Step 1: cast Time Stop
Step 2: cast Reverse Gravity directly underneath the Balor
Step 3: cast Prismatic Sphere around the Balor
Step 4: repeat step 3 until Time Stop wears off.
The Reverse Gravity will send it into the Prismatic Spheres, because even if your GM rules it has time to start flying in that fraction of a second it doesn't have perfect maneuverability, so it can't hover in place. Each Prismatic Sphere will deal 10 or 30 acid damage (depending on whether or not it makes the Reflex save) and force it to save against petrification, insanity, and being sent to another plane. Even if it survives all of that, the first Sphere will have destroyed all its equipment.
Other advice:
-Make sure your alignment is evil to Unholy Aura and Blasphemy won't hit you.
-Cast Form of the Dragon, that will make you less vulnerable to combat maneuvers.
-If possible, consider being a water or earth elemental sorcerer, as that will allow you to change all of the Prismatic Sphere damage to types the Balor isn't immune to.
-Take Spell Penetration, and consider being an elf, that will make spell resistance negligible.
I only asked for one...
Why would the paladins resist?
Benefit of the doubt. I doubt the wish spell is going to spell out exactly who is summoning them and why exactly.
Course if it does then...well there's 21 paladins.
So Time Stop, Prismatic Sphere, Wish for more friends!
Awesome!
u all got me thinking in totaly new direktions.
might be a sulution anyway !
Thanks alot u all :D
/M
Somewhere arround here there was a mage's magnificent mansion deathtrap thread... If nothing else, uou get more time to buff up with it than time stop, but so does he.
Greater Teleport/ plane shift.
So, you're 21st level, right? As in, you have access to 9th level spells?
Step 1: cast Time Stop
Step 2: cast Reverse Gravity directly underneath the Balor
Step 3: cast Prismatic Sphere around the Balor
Step 4: repeat step 3 until Time Stop wears off.The Reverse Gravity will send it into the Prismatic Spheres, because even if your GM rules it has time to start flying in that fraction of a second it doesn't have perfect maneuverability, so it can't hover in place. Each Prismatic Sphere will deal 10 or 30 acid damage (depending on whether or not it makes the Reflex save) and force it to save against petrification, insanity, and being sent to another plane. Even if it survives all of that, the first Sphere will have destroyed all its equipment.
Other advice:
-Make sure your alignment is evil to Unholy Aura and Blasphemy won't hit you.
-Cast Form of the Dragon, that will make you less vulnerable to combat maneuvers.
-If possible, consider being a water or earth elemental sorcerer, as that will allow you to change all of the Prismatic Sphere damage to types the Balor isn't immune to.
-Take Spell Penetration, and consider being an elf, that will make spell resistance negligible.
Irresistable Dance forces him to dance for 1 round, even if he passes the save. He can't fly if he is dancing :)
Escape is no problem, i have that coverd.. im just reading the stats in the pathfinder Beastiary, and it makes me pist of that i cant find a glitch in that monsters armor
Yeah... a CR 20 creature gets the CR 20 exactly because it doesn't have a glass jaw. :)
As a Sorcerer, I'm assuming your CHA is through the roof. If you've wisely spent points maxing out your Bluff, Diplo, etc. - the feat Skill Focus: Bluff or Diplo would also be bank - you've got a shot at talking your way out of this battle. If you can't, I'd say escape since you said you have that covered. No matter what your level, there is always someone tougher on the block. A smart player knows when it is time to run.
If you want to party with the Balor - I'd suggest you Quicken every single summoning spell you've got and when you aren't firing those off (to slow him down), fire off every spell that does Force damage.
Even with that, if the DM plays the Balor smart, you are most likely going to lose hard.
I'll be munching popcorn in the front row with my 10 GP on the Balor.
hahahaha!!!
thanks, will update how it went.. prob a fumble escape!! after i tried all trix i got here ;)
popcorn for all :P
Irresistable Dance forces him to dance for 1 round, even if he passes the save. He can't fly if he is dancing :)
Otto's is SR applicable which means unless the sorceror is geared for beating SR with enchantments Otto's might not even effect the Balor. Even then you are still faced with the situation that the Balor is still living.
Throwing the Balor at a prismatic sphere might work but with it's saves there is no guarantee that the Balor won't be able to survive the BIV layers.
If getting rid of the Balor is a "victory" you could always use a summoned creature armed with a portable hole + bag of holding and have the creature open a rift to the astral. Without plane shift the Balor is going to be hard pressed to get back to his original location. It's a cheap move but is generally good for a get out of jail free move ;)
I doubt it's "legal" but way back in 1e when I played in gonzo campaigns I activated a daern's instant fortress above a monster's head and had it crush the foe. Even if you gave the Balor a Reflex Save it should pretty much be a "rocks fall, everyone dies" kind of attack :D
Summoning paladins is end game for the Balor. Especially if you get more then a couple. They are a class that's designed specifically to peel Balors apart. A 20th level paladin overcomes all DR the creature has, they get +Cha to hit, +40 to damage, fast healing 60 for Level+Cha rounds. The Balor and it's allies might be able to tie up a couple paladins, perhaps kill a single one if they get really lucky, but that's why you Wish for a lot ^^
Point of Win: Summon Monster hand it a bag of holding and a portable hole and give it orders to move to the balor and put one instead the other.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Vuron.
Banishment is also a good choice.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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In general, I'd use a turtle strategy. Defensively buff the heck out of yourself to the point where the balor cannot effectively engage you, then spam no save spells until it dies.
Have Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. With both, you'll beat the balor's SR on a 6 or better.
You're going to need mind blank to beat power word: stun and dominate monster, freedom of movement to beat grapples, and a ton of fire resistance if not fire immunity. I'd have both prot: fire and resist fire up. I'd have as much of this stuff as possible in magic item form (rings of fire resistance and freedom of movement) so it doesn't get greater dispel magicked off you.
Blasphemy would normally be a problem, but not for you since you're lvl 21.
There's no real easy way to get around implosion. Death ward doesn't help. For starters, I'd use improved invis since mind blank will mean that the balor can't even see you with true seeing. That will complicate targeting for implosion. If the balor is somehow able to target you, pray you don't blow your Fort save.
Your next big concern is the summoned demon. I suggest laying down dimensional lock first round both to prevent the summon and to stop the balor from teleporting around. If dimensional lock doesn't work try dismissal or banishment.
Telekinesis is another problem. Max out UMD and use a scroll of spell immunity for telekinesis. OTOH, your Will saves are going to be good, so you will probably not be getting telekinesed in the first place.
It's inevitable that the balor is going to close on you at some point but you can use imp invis+mind blank to get away easier than if you both can teleport, so again, dimensional lock works in your favor. Magic circle against evil never hurts. Stoneskin will help mitigate the pain of a full attack, but don't think it will make you invincible. Generic defensive buffs like bear's endurance, mirror image, shield, armor, etc. will all help to a degree.
If you ever lose imp invis or freedom of movement, your top priority should be to get those back up. If you get grappled, you're dead. If the balor gets a full attack on you, you're dead.
I'd start combat with time stop-mind blank-improved invis-freedom of movement-dimensional lock. Put up wall of force/resilient sphere if you need more buff time.
Offensively, save or die spells are probably not going to help, at least at first. You can pretty much count on the balor making Fort and Will saves; you're going to have to nickel-and-dime it to death. Mage sword and clenched fist/crushing hand can get some damage going so you can eventually use power words, although they both check SR. Enervation and energy drain both have no save, but you'll still have to hit its touch AC. Plus the stacking debuffs from all the negative levels will add up. I'd probably start up mage sword to get some harassment damage going, then spam enervation/energy drain until it had about 15 negative levels, then start unloading save or die spells like disintegrate, finger of death, weird, wail of the banshee, etc. Once it gets under 150 hp, use power word stun to keep it stun-locked and destroy it at your leisure.
Throwing the Balor at a prismatic sphere might work but with it's saves there is no guarantee that the Balor won't be able to survive the BIV layers.
IIRC, Prismatic spells are also subject to the Balor's SR. So for each color the Balor would get SR, then saves for 1/2 or whatnot, then their innate immunities and resistances to different damage types would kick in to make any damage from at least two of the colors totally bounce.
Of course, forcing the DM to roll all those SR checks, saves, and do all the math could be amusing enough... I might call that a victory. The Balor might die from frustration as each combat round takes 10 minutes in real time to resolve. :)
the minions er.. my partymembers,, well fighter is dead, cleric still prisoner, and rouge, who knows, im new in the grp, i got the edge to know that im going head on with a singel balor, he has no "friends" here , what i know about, i have the choice to rescue the cleric and the dead fighter, or escape aswell, teleport ect,
i know this is a "hard" fight, even if i make my char "antidemon"..
just greatfull for averybodys time and advices :)
Again IIRC since I don't have the book in front of me -- aren't both the Balor's Sword and Whip considered vorpal weapons, with multiple attacks for each? All he needs is one lucky blow in X attempts followed by a confirmation hit and it's Highlander time...
There can be only ONE!
@ Charlie Bell
thanks alot :)
the minions er.. my partymembers,, well fighter is dead, cleric still prisoner, and rouge, who knows, im new in the grp, i got the edge to know that im going head on with a singel balor, he has no "friends" here , what i know about, i have the choice to rescue the cleric and the dead fighter, or escape aswell, teleport ect,
i know this is a "hard" fight, even if i make my char "antidemon"..
just greatfull for averybodys time and advices :)
Ah... OK, here's my advice then - Rescue the Fighter and Cleric, see if you can find the Rogue, and then BUG OUT. I think the DM was maybe doing you a favor by mentioning the Balor, basically telling you that it is an option but a suicidal one. Rescue the party and escape. When you guys are up to full strength (i.e. all alive) you could always return to try to take down the Balor.
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Or, escape and spring for the true resurrection spells for the other party members.
You could also go the leadership route and have your 163 sorcerer followers with light crossbows equipped with bolts of demon slaying (you pay ou of pocket) and having cast true strike in the surprise round.
They would technically be part of your character, so you could argue that they're present too.
Don't bother with Greater Invisibility. Balors have constant True Seeing.