Can you use combat maneuvers such as trip or grapple instead of a melee attack as an attack of opportunity? tx
Can you use combat maneuvers such as trip or grapple instead of a melee attack as an attack of opportunity? tx
Ones that say "in place of a melee attack."
I think those ones are trip, sunder and disarm.
Bull rush and Grapple require standard actions, so they can't be used as attacks of opportunity.
So if I trip as an attack of opportunity and do not have improved trip does my tripping the opponent as an AoO cause them to get an AoO back on me. In other words does a trip that would normally provoke AoO still do so if it is itself an AoO?
Can you use combat maneuvers such as trip or grapple instead of a melee attack as an attack of opportunity? txOnes that say "in place of a melee attack."
I think those ones are trip, sunder and disarm.
Bull rush and Grapple require standard actions, so they can't be used as attacks of opportunity.
In other words does a trip that would normally provoke AoO still do so if it is itself an AoO?Yes ... in fact you can provoke a whole "chain" of AoOs.
See HERE for more details. The section you're looking for is Attack of Opportunity Chains and is a little over half-way down.
HTH,
Rez
I'm certain that James specifically stated that this was going to be removed... that a line that stated, "You can't use an action during an attack of opportunity that provokes an attack of opportunity itself." was going to be added in... but I don't see it anywhere in currently...
However one note -- you can't trip someone who is already prone (or getting up from prone) with an AoO since they are already prone.
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I'm certain that James specifically stated that this was going to be removed... that a line that stated, "You can't use an action during an attack of opportunity that provokes an attack of opportunity itself." was going to be added in... but I don't see it anywhere in currently...
However one note -- you can't trip someone who is already prone (or getting up from prone) with an AoO since they are already prone.
I wonder why it would be considered for removal? A "chain of AoOs" actually makes sense in many circumstances. Sure, they may be a "nuisance" to resolve, but they make for some fun and interesting scenarios in combat, to be sure. We just had a "move through threatened square - attempt a trip with trip weapon - attempt to disarm the trip weapon" chain last night. It made the encounter very interesting, to say the least.
Many people argue that Sunder cannot be used as an AoO because it is an Attack Action, which is a Standard action.
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Many people argue that Sunder cannot be used as an AoO because it is an Attack Action, which is a Standard action.
Agreed, Sunder is part of an "attack action" which means "Standard Action: Attack (Melee/Ranged/Unarmed)." An AoO is not a Standard Action (attack action) it's its own, unique action not listed as one of the standard action types. We just beat this horse to death in another thread, and, after having been schooled on the subject, I've come to see the light. ;)
Disarm and Trip, however, are made as "part of a melee attack" and therefore can be attached to any Action which includes, well, a melee attack... including AoOs.
School ´em, Red Wulff! ;-)
@Abe: I remembered that too, but I eventually convinced myself it was just an idea during the Core Rules playtest that was never realized. That rule would be problematic just because there`s alot of ways that actions that don`t normally provoke DO for some reason... e.g. Grapples vs. Pugilist Barbs always provoke... So Tentacle Grab monster just can`t take AoO vs said Barb? Or can`t use the Grab ability on said Tentacle AoO? That would seem to be a very quantum-clairvoyant game-mechanic, that creatures don`t take attacks which they can`t even know if they will provoke or not. Not to mention Come and Get Me makes all attacks provoke AoO`s. I`d rather USE CaGM as written rather than say the Barbarian effectively can`t provoke AoO`s themself when it is in effect.
The huge AoO chain from AoO`s which themselves provoke (high DEX CaGM Barbarians dueling each other) are just so niche that they don`t really affect the game that much, and in the most ridiculous cases, one of the opponents will likely drop before the chain is complete :-)
Here's my question, from 8 months in the future. What about AoO's provoked by movement?
As an example: Curridge the Cowardly Goblin wants to run away from Mr. Chainy, our flail-wielding fighter. Curridge doesn't consider a 5-foot-step or withdraw, so he just moves away. He leaves Chainy's threatened square, so he provokes an AoO from Chainy. Chainy decides to use his AoO for a trip attempt. However, he never bothered to take Improved Trip, so he provokes an AoO from Curridge.
Or is that how it should work? Curridge is running away from Chainy, and yet he can turn around and smack Chainy for trying to trip him while he's running away? I can see that making sense, sort of...
And just to double-check, if that did happen, then Curridge would make his AoO (for sanity's sake, we'll say it's a regular attack AoO), deal some damage if he hits, and whether he hits or misses, Chainy would get his trip AoO; if Curridge had hit on his AoO, then Chainy would take a penalty on his trip AoO equal to the damage dealt. Right?
I know this thread hasn't been looked at in over half a year, but I'd rather dig up an old thread than just start a new one.
Ok let me play out this possibility, assuming both Curridge and Chainy have combat reflexes, 16 dexterity, and not enough intellect to have improved Trip or Improved Disarm.
Curridge starts to stupidly move away instead of withdrawing, so Chainy tries to trip him, so Curridge tries to poke him with his dagger, so Chainy tries to disarm Curridge ... and succeeds! .. but Curridge still gets his barehand attack and gives Chainy a shiner for 1 point ... but Chainy still trips Curridge.
Curridge having lost his first move action, decides to use a second move action to get up from prone, which provokes again, so as Curridge is prone and weaponless, Chainy takes a normal attack of Opportunity but misses.
With the goblin on the floor, and Mr. Chainy spotting a shiner, the rest of the party falls prone on their rounds with laughter, and Mr. Chainy gets flustered and angry at them, so Curridge grabs his dagger and runs away, because Mr. Chainy refuses to get involved anymore.
Would that work? Or does your turn end if you fall prone?
Arbalester has it right.
Curridge starts to stupidly move away instead of withdrawing, so Chainy tries to trip him, so Curridge tries to poke him with his dagger, so Chainy tries to disarm Curridge ...
Why is Curridge provoking by attacking with a dagger?
Chainy still trips Curridge.
Curridge having lost his first move action, decides to use a second move action to get up from prone, which provokes again, so as Curridge is prone and weaponless, Chainy takes a normal attack of Opportunity but misses.With the goblin on the floor, and Mr. Chainy spotting a shiner
The goblin is no longer on the floor. He stood up, and took an AoO (which could not be a trip, since he was still prone when it happened) so he's standing and weaponless.