I'm not a fan of Ray of Dizziness. Fighting a dragon with 7 attacks in a full round? *zap* Ha, now it has one.
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Twinned spells says the spells both go off simultaneously...if you wanna ignore that for sequentially in your game, fine...but the examples you are giving has no bearing on the RAW of twinned spells nor how it works with avasculate.Actually, using your definition, the second avasculate of the twinned pair would have no effect, since the wording is "you are reduced to half your hit points."
If they were to happen perfectly simultaneously to someone at full hit points, each would reduce that target to half hit points, thus making the second one irrelevant.
Sequentially would reduce the target to 1/4 hit points.
Your right...I re-read avasculate and twinning it would be a redundant effect. So no 0 hp cheese...yeah.
Twinned spells says the spells both go off simultaneously...if you wanna ignore that for sequentially in your game, fine...but the examples you are giving has no bearing on the RAW of twinned spells nor how it works with avasculate.Actually, using your definition, the second avasculate of the twinned pair would have no effect, since the wording is "you are reduced to half your hit points."
If they were to happen perfectly simultaneously to someone at full hit points, each would reduce that target to half hit points, thus making the second one irrelevant.
Sequentially would reduce the target to 1/4 hit points.
Pretty much, if they are simultaneous, then they drop to half. The reason being that the spell does not state it does damage equal to half your hit points, it says you are reduced to half your current hit points, and that's key. If they go off simultaneously, then both spells get your current HP of 100 and both reduce you to 50 HP, which means it is dumb to dual-cast this spell.
However, casting them sequentially, as Boney says, would reduce the person from 100 to 50 to 25.
I'm not a fan of Ray of Dizziness. Fighting a dragon with 7 attacks in a full round? *zap* Ha, now it has one.
Pretty much all the 'save or suck', 'save or die', or 'just suck' spells have to be rewritten, especially most of the rays.
I'm not a fan of Ray of Dizziness. Fighting a dragon with 7 attacks in a full round? *zap* Ha, now it has one.Pretty much all the 'save or suck', 'save or die', or 'just suck' spells have to be rewritten, especially most of the rays.
Except Ray of Dizziness is a 3rd level spell with no save. It's beyond 'just suck.'
Except Ray of Dizziness is a 3rd level spell with no save. It's beyond 'just suck.'I'm not a fan of Ray of Dizziness. Fighting a dragon with 7 attacks in a full round? *zap* Ha, now it has one.Pretty much all the 'save or suck', 'save or die', or 'just suck' spells have to be rewritten, especially most of the rays.
No, it's just a broken 'just suck' spell.
Save or Suck : Make your saving roll or suck.
Save or Die : Make your saving roll or die.
Just Suck : No saving roll, you just suck.
Just Die : No saving roll, create a new character.
I don't think there are any 'just die' spells, but I wouldn't put it past WoTC to have snuck one into an obscure splat book somewhere.
The theory behind the Ray spells was that your Touch AC was your save in effect... although that really tended to hose big creatures with average dexterity (such as dragons). I think they would be just about right if they allowed a save for reduced effect.
for example ray of dizziness normally lasts 1 round per level, adding a Fortitude save that reduces that to just 1 round if successful would bring the spell right to where it should be IMO, and that way the caster wouldn't have to worry about potentially having to make a ranged touch attack and see the spell completely fail anyway (as it might if there was a save negates).
The theory behind the Ray spells was that your Touch AC was your save in effect... although that really tended to hose big creatures with average dexterity (such as dragons). I think they would be just about right if they allowed a save for reduced effect.
for example ray of dizziness normally lasts 1 round per level, adding a Fortitude save that reduces that to just 1 round if successful would bring the spell right to where it should be IMO, and that way the caster wouldn't have to worry about potentially having to make a ranged touch attack and see the spell completely fail anyway (as it might if there was a save negates).
Well, it already stuns you for one round, so, the save negates the stun and reduces you to only one standard or move action for 1 round instead. That would tone it down to manageable levels.
huh? ray of dizziness doesn't stun you for one round... all it does is (using the pathfinder terminology) give you the staggered condition for the duration of the spell.
my way would be failed fort save staggered for 1 round/level
made fort save staggered for 1 round.
huh? ray of dizziness doesn't stun you for one round... all it does is (using the pathfinder terminology) give you the staggered condition for the duration of the spell.
my way would be failed fort save staggered for 1 round/level
made fort save staggered for 1 round.
Whoops, sorry, getting my spells mixed up.
I wonder which one I was thinking of that stunned you for the first round...
huh? ray of dizziness doesn't stun you for one round... all it does is (using the pathfinder terminology) give you the staggered condition for the duration of the spell.
my way would be failed fort save staggered for 1 round/level
made fort save staggered for 1 round.Whoops, sorry, getting my spells mixed up.
I wonder which one I was thinking of that stunned you for the first round...
Stun Ray perhaps?
reciprocal gyre is a fun trap to spring on PCs as a GM, if completely unfair. a bit of a balancer for the profusion of all day buffs (I think all of my players had at least a half dozen on at any given time).
same for wall of dispel magic/greater dispel magic.
fist of stone (+6 to strength for 1 minute at level 1), imbue familiar with spell ability (now there are 2 wizards in the party), sonorous hum (who needs to concentrate on spells?), create magic tattoo (essentially permanent +1 caster level for 50gp/day and some skill points), the list goes on.
not making an argument for or against the SC here, just indulging in fond reminiscence. lots of fun in that book.
huh? ray of dizziness doesn't stun you for one round... all it does is (using the pathfinder terminology) give you the staggered condition for the duration of the spell.
my way would be failed fort save staggered for 1 round/level
made fort save staggered for 1 round.Whoops, sorry, getting my spells mixed up.
I wonder which one I was thinking of that stunned you for the first round...
Probably Avasculate, it'll stun you if you fail the fortitude save.
Want to have some fun as a Bard? How about a creature failing it's save against mind fog, then unluck it, and use sonorous hun to keep body harmonic going (-1d10 to an ability score of your choice every round you concentrate on it, but have to go through all 6 before you hit the same one twice). Yeah, pretty much auto tons of ability dmg each round, and you're still 100% free to do anything else you want.
Probably Avasculate, it'll stun you if you fail the fortitude save.huh? ray of dizziness doesn't stun you for one round... all it does is (using the pathfinder terminology) give you the staggered condition for the duration of the spell.
my way would be failed fort save staggered for 1 round/level
made fort save staggered for 1 round.Whoops, sorry, getting my spells mixed up.
I wonder which one I was thinking of that stunned you for the first round...
That was it!
Well it was a fire spell with lots of fuel.
I have a question that doesn't necessarily have to do with the spell compendium as it does with the spell fireball. I was recently playing the skinsaw murders and we went into the sawmill where there were a bunch of baddies. A fireball was cast, and the GM promptly had the entire sawmill burn down. What are you thoughs on this?
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area.
My players chose not to use fireball there for that very reason.
I have a question that doesn't necessarily have to do with the spell compendium as it does with the spell fireball. I was recently playing the skinsaw murders and we went into the sawmill where there were a bunch of baddies. A fireball was cast, and the GM promptly had the entire sawmill burn down. What are you thoughs on this?The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area.My players chose not to use fireball there for that very reason.
Yeah, have to agree with the DM. The most dangerous place you can have a spark is in a woodmill. I lived a mile from one of the largest woodmmills in southeastern louisiana for about 15 years. My uncle worked there as a security guard, and two cousins worked the lines.
The most dangerous thing they were concerned about was an unexpected spark in the wrong place. Cigarettes and lighters were banned on the site. All that wood dust gets in the air and once it dries out enough it turns into a giant explosion waiting to happen. All that wood with air on all sides floating around, ready to burst into flames.
Casting a fireball in such a place would lead to a huge explosion and a pile of cinders.
Yeah, have to agree with the DM. The most dangerous place you can have a spark is in a woodmill. I lived a mile from one of the largest woodmmills in southeastern louisiana for about 15 years. My uncle worked there as a security guard, and two cousins worked the lines.
Mills are a really really bad place to have fire around too for the same reason... as are coal mines...
In fact any place with a lot of dust in a confined space is not a good place to bring in fire... that is just asking for disaster.
I have a question that doesn't necessarily have to do with the spell compendium as it does with the spell fireball. I was recently playing the skinsaw murders and we went into the sawmill where there were a bunch of baddies. A fireball was cast, and the GM promptly had the entire sawmill burn down. What are you thoughs on this?
You were lucky that your DM hadn't heard of dust initiators. One party I was in had a fight in an old flour warehouse once ... when the other side produced a naked flame, we ran like hell. There wasn't much left of the warehouse.
Sounds like a great idea for a spell. Creates an area of explosive dust, knowledge arcana or spellcraft to recognize the inherant danger of the area.
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You were lucky that your DM hadn't heard of dust initiators. One party I was in had a fight in an old flour warehouse once ... when the other side produced a naked flame, we ran like hell. There wasn't much left of the warehouse.
I'm familiar with it, I just don't run it. "The air itself explodes into flames, you're all incinerated, roll up new characters." just isn't fun for anybody.
Nothing in the SC is as broken as some off the spells in 2E..Chromatic Orb springs instantly to mind..in fact the individual orb spells were a direct result of breaking that particular abomination down into its component parts and assigning a proper level of power to the higher powered parts.OMG...lmfao.
I remember that spell, my DM REFUSED to let any of us have access to it (despite the 50gp material component)...lol, broken as hell, 1st level spell that causes horrendous effects on a failed save. It was like a lesser prismatic spray spell with regards to a single character.
No surprise it didnt make it into Pathfider or 3.5 though I have some unofficial versions of it...lol
To my abiding and everlasting shame I allowed it in the Night Below campaign I ran..by the end the Mage was doing the make your save and you're dead, fail and your disintegrated effect..I hated that spell
To my abiding and everlasting shame I allowed it in the Night Below campaign I ran..by the end the Mage was doing the make your save and you're dead, fail and your disintegrated effect..I hated that spell
(asks innocently) didn't any of the enemy mages have it?
(asks innocently) didn't any of the enemy mages have it?
Don't you know that all enemy mages are limited to core book spell choices?
I don't remember there being that many high level enemy wizards in Night Below actually.
The casters they were up against were, for the most part,..Derro Savants,Aboleths and Kuo Toa Priests..its nearly 10 years ago so the specifics are a bit hazy.
It was a fun game with loads of character interaction and side quests..The Mage ended up married to Jeleneth and serving as ruler of the area above ground..the elf aqqired an alu fiend as a lover and they went on a long quest to cleanse her off her demonic blood which ended up involving the entire Elven Pantheon at one point or another(and she still got regular visits from her succubus Mother..
In all the best campaign I have ever run..except for that damned spell
The casters they were up against were, for the most part,..Derro Savants,Aboleths and Kuo Toa Priests..its nearly 10 years ago so the specifics are a bit hazy.
That is what I remember from the boxed set as well.
I don't think there are any 'just die' spells, but I wouldn't put it past WoTC to have snuck one into an obscure splat book somewhere.
(sure, SR, and most PC's will have more than that HP, but no save and direct death)
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I don't think there are any 'just die' spells, but I wouldn't put it past WoTC to have snuck one into an obscure splat book somewhere.(sure, SR, and most PC's will have more than that HP, but no save and direct death)
Well the HP limit basically makes the spell do 100 damage with no save technically...well since your dead 110...but weaker since it is a death effect and death effects can be blocked by a lot of other things...so overall a really bad 9th level spell.
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Serpent kingdom has ALL sorts of issues...I try to ignore it exists.The rules in that book were terrible, but that setting book was all kinds of awesome. Every time I open that book it gives me a new idea for a game, and I detest yuan-ti.
You know, the setting book that does that for me is the shining south.
Book of exhaulted deeds had a you just lose spell rather than a just die spell called amber sacophogus. Ranged touch to encase in amber for bloody ages, no save you lose.Except Ray of Dizziness is a 3rd level spell with no save. It's beyond 'just suck.'I'm not a fan of Ray of Dizziness. Fighting a dragon with 7 attacks in a full round? *zap* Ha, now it has one.Pretty much all the 'save or suck', 'save or die', or 'just suck' spells have to be rewritten, especially most of the rays.No, it's just a broken 'just suck' spell.
Save or Suck : Make your saving roll or suck.
Save or Die : Make your saving roll or die.
Just Suck : No saving roll, you just suck.
Just Die : No saving roll, create a new character.I don't think there are any 'just die' spells, but I wouldn't put it past WoTC to have snuck one into an obscure splat book somewhere.
Cost the caster a level to cast, granted.
Yes, a level. No set number of experience, just "You lose experience to the point of being a level lower."
BoED had some...odd spells.
Ahaha, yeah, I had the wrong spell.
BoED's balance was all over the damn place. Both BoED and BoVD were terrible mechanics wise, but for completely different reasons.
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Ahaha, yeah, I had the wrong spell.
BoED's balance was all over the damn place. Both BoED and BoVD were terrible mechanics wise, but for completely different reasons.
Yeah...I don´t like either of those books...but the BoVD has a special place in book hell because of the nipple rings. I had a guy who continually made female characters after that book came out. sigh...
They didn't call them the Book of Exalted Cheese and the Book of Vile Dorkness for nothing. If players want to mess with exotic piercings, they can have the experience of getting them caught on something in the middle of a stealthy crawl or a serious fight ...
It is an out-of-print WotC product, and is closed content.
Sometimes that is a good thing :)
Yes that to.