I know an elf's immunity to magical sleep effects covers the sleep and deep slumber spells, as well as monster abilities like a pixie's sleep arrows or a satyr's pipes. Does anyone have an interpretation on whether that immunity covers things like hypnotism and suggestion as well? For example, the hypnotism spell allows the caster to make a reasonable request of the target. If the caster requests that the target go to sleep, would that fall under a magic-based sleep effect, or would it be a normal enchantment instead (granting the elf just his +2 to resist enchantments)? Anyone have arguments one way or the other?
That's a rather sneaky way around it, but I would think they would only have the +2 bonus vs. enchantments on that.
However, whether going to sleep is a reasonable request is something else entirely.
That's a rather sneaky way around it, but I would think they would only have the +2 bonus vs. enchantments on that.
However, whether going to sleep is a reasonable request is something else entirely.
Agreed. Circumstances might also allow the elf (or any other character) to have a bonus on the save.
A generous GM might however apply a circumstance penalty on the save if the situation is particularly favorable (character is exhausted, a VERY comfortable bed is at hand, the surroundings appear safe, someone the character would like to cuddle up with is pressent and willing) for a good nap :)EDIT: Ooh don't forget the characters favorite teddy bear!
That's a rather sneaky way around it, but I would think they would only have the +2 bonus vs. enchantments on that.
However, whether going to sleep is a reasonable request is something else entirely.
And depending on how 'old school' your DM is... that tactic could really fall flat. There were a lot of D&D players who used the rule that Elves don't sleep - they just need to meditate for awhile each day... so a suggestion to sleep might be considered ludicrous.
And depending on how 'old school' your DM is... that tactic could really fall flat. There were a lot of D&D players who used the rule that Elves don't sleep - they just need to meditate for awhile each day... so a suggestion to sleep might be considered ludicrous.
Go "old school" enough and this won't be an issue :)
Indeed, Stormraven, that was part of the campaign setting for the Forgotten Realms.
As a matter of fact, that was not related to the Forgotten Realms.
It was in the Complete Book of Elves, which wasn't setting specific.
And depending on how 'old school' your DM is... that tactic could really fall flat. There were a lot of D&D players who used the rule that Elves don't sleep - they just need to meditate for awhile each day... so a suggestion to sleep might be considered ludicrous.Go "old school" enough and this won't be an issue :)
He he! That's true too. :)
Indeed, Stormraven, that was part of the campaign setting for the Forgotten Realms.As a matter of fact, that was not related to the Forgotten Realms.
It was in the Complete Book of Elves, which wasn't setting specific.
I'm honestly not sure where it was first documented. I've never played FR or had the Book of Elves. I recall that being the general 'rule' back in the AD&D and early 2E days. of course, we were all rabid about Tolkien so we might have stolen that idea from LOTR and just thought it was a rule.
Ah... good times, good times.
Ooh don't forget the characters favorite teddy bear!
You can't - the teddy bear is the spell focus. :)
I know an elf's immunity to magical sleep effects covers the sleep and deep slumber spells, as well as monster abilities like a pixie's sleep arrows or a satyr's pipes. Does anyone have an interpretation on whether that immunity covers things like hypnotism and suggestion as well? For example, the hypnotism spell allows the caster to make a reasonable request of the target. If the caster requests that the target go to sleep, would that fall under a magic-based sleep effect, or would it be a normal enchantment instead (granting the elf just his +2 to resist enchantments)? Anyone have arguments one way or the other?
Just because an elf can't sleep doesn't mean they wouldn't try to go to sleep. They would lay down, close their eyes, and meditate.
I know an elf's immunity to magical sleep effects covers the sleep and deep slumber spells, as well as monster abilities like a pixie's sleep arrows or a satyr's pipes. Does anyone have an interpretation on whether that immunity covers things like hypnotism and suggestion as well? For example, the hypnotism spell allows the caster to make a reasonable request of the target. If the caster requests that the target go to sleep, would that fall under a magic-based sleep effect, or would it be a normal enchantment instead (granting the elf just his +2 to resist enchantments)? Anyone have arguments one way or the other?The immunities and racial traits are quite specific. Outside of the sleep and deep slumber spells the only applicable trait is the +2 bonus to saves vs enchantment spells.
The immunities say they are immune to magical sleep effects. Since there is no sleep descriptor, I'd say it foils any attempt to use magic to make them sleep. Granted suggestion might make them try to sleep, but I would not make them take the penalties of actually BEING asleep.
I know they fall asleep with drow poison though, because that's non-magical.
I know they fall asleep with drow poison though, because that's non-magical.
I believe that drow poison causes "unconsciousness" rather then "sleep" for just that purpose actually... I seem to recall that was a specific change in 3e from 2e so that there was no confusion on whether it worked on elves (in fact I am pretty sure I remember getting that explanation from Sean way back when).
I would have to dig up the thread, but not too long ago Joshua Frost said that, at least in Golarion, that elves need sleep just like humans or any other race. So elves may be immune to magical hypnotism that forces one to fall asleep but not non-magical hypnotism.
Edit: Ok, after posting I did a quick search and Joshua's statement was mainly for the PFS version of Golarion, but I would think that would apply to Golarion in general.