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I get that the fireball will destroy just about everything. I think Raving Dork does too, from his most recent post about it above. But what I don't get, is why this is the defacto only spell that people talk about?
No rays, nothing. Just assuming that someone is going to drop the fireball square into the middle of a 20X20 room full of kobolds or whatever.
Also, I have a question...unless the fighter PC specifically targets the neck area, do you have him automatically roll a Sunder when he hits for 50+ damage or something? isn't he in just as much danger of ruining arcane armors, or maybe carried scroll cases or such that the BBEG has on him?
after all, the rules describe AC as such: Armor Class (AC): All creatures in the game have an Armor Class. This score represents how hard it is to hit a creature in combat. As with other scores, higher is better.
and that presumably includes a guy wearing armor, or using his sword to parry...so a successful hit means the PC got through those defenses somehow...amirite?
If a DM truely wants to keep track of EVERYTHINGS HP and DR then props to them. I'm just saying not everyone is going to keep track of such things nor care, in the case of my group. Even then, I think your group would be aware that your playing I'd your going to have RAW hardcore collateral damage and a blaster would truely be that dumb to nuke a room with valuables, treasure, art and such. To take it a step further: blasters would destroy all equipment with most high level blasting spells. I k.ow there are rule (Whig I can't lol up right now) that cover fail save damage to equipment, but does everyone follow all those rules? Not likely. Thus I still stand blasting depends on the group ans DM style of gaming and you make your blaster accordingly to the game, just like any other character you would make.
Also, let's try and keep the thread on topic about the good of blasting, what we like and advice on blasting. I know I sidetracked some as well.
If a GM takes care to note damage dealt to unattended objects, I would be completely fine with that -- because the corollary is that the enemies' weapons and armour might get destroyed too. Really, though, I've never recommended using fireball indoors.
Or outdoors, given that it sets fire to anything flammable. I think I mentioned that it's kind of a drag to have every fey and forest swelling sentient for 100 miles pissed at you for starting forest fires. And it's kind of a big no-no in cities or populated areas too.
I get that the fireball will destroy just about everything. I think Raving Dork does too, from his most recent post about it above. But what I don't get, is why this is the defacto only spell that people talk about?
Because it's the quintessential poster child of blasting.
No rays, nothing. Just assuming that someone is going to drop the fireball square into the middle of a 20X20 room full of kobolds or whatever.
Because every time that anyone points out that blasting for damage is just sucktastic compared to any other class that can deal damage with weapons, everyone always falls back to "but you can deal damage to so many more creatures at the same time", or otherwise attempt to defend blasting with the whole AoE thing; which like I said, opens an entirely new can of nasty moldy slimy worms. Scorching ray is arguably the most potent direct-damage spell in terms of level vs results (making it kind of sexy for metamagic), and even it caps at 72 damage maximized at 11th level, while requiring multiple short-range ranged touch attacks (which means -4 for firing into melee, -4 if your target has cover, being within easy reach of monsters, applying resistance 3 times); whereas a ranged attacker can be dealing that much or more damage every round while being harder to resist.
Meanwhile, what other rays would you suggest? Disintegrate is traditionally a save or die (now just save or take stupid amounts of damage). Enervation isn't blasting, it's debuffing. Acid arrow might qualify but I've never seen AA categorized as a blasting spell instead of a DoT (damage over time) or similar for screwing with Concentration and the like. Burning hands isn't a spell most folks want to talk about. Cone of cold is fireball's higher level Snow-miser brother who deals cold damage (which is generally more loot-friendly but is still just as useless at not killing bystanders and still destroys quite a bit of loot with lower end hardness).
Also, I have a question...unless the fighter PC specifically targets the neck area, do you have him automatically roll a Sunder when he hits for 50+ damage or something? isn't he in just as much danger of ruining arcane armors, or maybe carried scroll cases or such that the BBEG has on him?
after all, the rules describe AC as such: Armor Class (AC): All creatures in the game have an Armor Class. This score represents how hard it is to hit a creature in combat. As with other scores, higher is better.
and that presumably includes a guy wearing armor, or using his sword to parry...so a successful hit means the PC got through those defenses somehow...amirite?
No. I'm not talking about attended objects which are specifically not damaged; I'm talking about unattended objects. They are quite different in the rules. If someone is holding a sword, then it isn't damaged in an AoE unless the creature rolls a 1 their saving throw (see Item's Surviving After a Saving Throw). It's the items on the already dead bodies, lying around the area, on the ground, hanging from the ceiling, or otherwise not in a creature's current possession.
That means that if your party's ranger and bard open up the fight by filling some mooks with arrows, killing them, and then you drop a fireball, their equipment (which is now unattended) is charbroiled; along with the suit of armor and longspears on the racks; and so forth. I'm not making up rules here; and I'm not suggesting that you track every single thing that could in reality harm the equipment of characters holding it. Once you're dead, however, your equipment loses its plot armor.
If a DM truely wants to keep track of EVERYTHINGS HP and DR then props to them. I'm just saying not everyone is going to keep track of such things nor care, in the case of my group.
Well we are talking about the RAW pros and cons of blasting here. I'm sure there are lots of options, especially in magic, which would be far, far more appealing if we just ignored the rules that hindered them. Like saving throws. We could ignore saving throws, and assume enemies auto-fail their saves. That would make save or dies look way better than they do. However, since statistically Fortitude tends to be a big contender among saving throws, we know that without planning the chances of getting your SoD spells to stick (generally revolving around some pretty righteous debuffing).
Incidentally, you only need to determine the toughest item in a group to see what's utterly destroyed. If a fireball will melt through 5 inches of mithral, then you know that everything that wasn't as tough as 5 inches of mithral is BBQ as well.
Even then, I think your group would be aware that your playing I'd your going to have RAW hardcore collateral damage and a blaster would truely be that dumb to nuke a room with valuables, treasure, art and such.
I don't think that it's extreme in the least to assume that blasting blasts, or that the rules are being followed. I mean, if you can drop a fireball in a forest and not torch the leaves on the ground, or scorch the trunks of the trees, then that's great for you. I'm not sure I'd want it like that in my games, but it's a nice house rule to cater to those who want blasting to be better. While you're taking away collateral damage away from the wizard's napalm strikes, you may wish to go the extra mile and make it so that wizards just auto-ignore friendlies. I mean if leaves and paper and stuff won't burn, why should your friends? Maybe it just hurts your enemies.
To take it a step further: blasters would destroy all equipment with most high level blasting spells. I k.ow there are rule (Whig I can't lol up right now) that cover fail save damage to equipment, but does everyone follow all those rules? Not likely.
We do use those rules for discussions about the qualities of anything. Changing the rules has profound effects throughout the entire game. If you're not talking about the rules, then you should say so; but for the sake of honesty and just plain sensibility, don't argue against the rules as if they weren't there, or ignore them as if they weren't because you wish them not to be. I DO follow the rules. If you roll a 1 on a save vs a drider's fireball, hope nothing important gets torched. If that drider fails a save vs your fireball, same to it.
Thus I still stand blasting depends on the group ans DM style of gaming and you make your blaster accordingly to the game, just like any other character you would make.
Which is saying a whole lot of nothing. Whacking people with limp wet noodles is an entirely valid strategy if your GM and group change the game to make it a valid strategy. I for one, however, shall not be declaring +3 limp noodles the weapon of choice on the forums merely because it might be effective under somebody's house rules.
@Ashiel: Grats, we know you basically hate blasting. It's nice to know that you and your groups (I assume) take the time to understand the rules so much. BUT, as I said before, not everyone is like that. If that's how people would like to run and play in games, I respect that. Based off experiences I have had, not the case. We favor the rule of everyone having fun. If it changes the rules that much, who cares.
For making a good and/or cool blaster, I would honestly just talk to your DM about what you wanna do and get an understand of how they are going to run the game. If they are not interested in dealing with how the whole area is going to get destroyed, kinda turning a blind eye to it, go hog wild who cares. If they are keeping an eye out on how that Fireball or Cone of Cold might destroy the book shealves, they might not be a good choice and look for feats that change the shape of your spells and rays. This way you can build your blaster to the game and everyone has fun. I personally favor being a wizard for being a blaster. You can choose multiple spells and still have your classic safe spells. You can also get the Arcane Bonded item and get that one spell you wished you prepared like Resist Energy, Fly, another Haste or something. Sometimes blasting isn't the right choice, so have some variety. Also keep in mine that blasting is going to be more expensive, more resource heavy on feats, takes planing and resource management. If you don't want to do any of that, it may not be for you.
I find Pearls of Power almost a must for my blasters, along with the feat Empower Spell. Intensify spell is cool as well. I usually focused on INT boosting equipment. Rods, I bought Maximize and Quicken Rods. Quicken Rods are usually staple on any wizard anyways, so it isn't like you really wasted money on it. Maximize Rod is useful for other spells to when you don't or can't blast, like using it to Summon Monster multiple lower level monsters of a step lower. Spells I liked were Fireball, Scorching Ray, Cold Ice Strike, Force Punch, Black Tentacles (yeah you might say it isn't "blasty", but it can do a lot of damage and that's blaster enough for me,) and Chain Lightning. I find the trick to a good blaster is to know when you should blast. You have to know when you nuke enemies and when you should, idk, caste Haste. It's all about balance.
I might chime in later when I have more time to throw out more of my thoughts on nuking the world.
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@Ashiel: Grats, we know you basically hate blasting. It's nice to know that you and your groups (I assume) take the time to understand the rules so much. BUT, as I said before, not everyone is like that. If that's how people would like to run and play in games, I respect that. Based off experiences I have had, not the case. We favor the rule of everyone having fun. If it changes the rules that much, who cares.
Thanks for trying to paint me into a picture. I do not basically hate blasting. I don't hate blasting at all. I do however believe that people need to know what blasting is legitimately good at, and what it is legitimately bad at. That's irrelevant to your house rules, my house rules, or anyone elses' house rules. All I'm saying is that presenting anything (be it blasting, poison, swords, axes, a certain monster, whatever) as being amazing because you are intentionally ignoring rules is just plain dishonest.
Blasting has its uses, yes. I believe I've already noted that it tends to be really, really good for ensuring something doesn't get off a spell. Unlike arrows and the like, blasting spells tend to be instantaneous and deal fairly large quantities of damage for a single strike. While DPS of an archer firing arrows might be greater than a single 9th level magic missile spell, the magic missile spell deals all its damage at once; which makes casting a bit of a b++*~.
However, the sword cuts both ways. God-wizards who cast haste when their martials are paralyzed, or disrupt their archers with their own obscuring mist, or throw black tentacles down in the middle of their party are also bad. Knowing how to use your spells, what their drawbacks are, and so forth is critical. Same with blasting. Knowing that you will end up nuking all the loot, setting a forest on fire, accidentally kill innocent bystanders, and what-not has a huge impact on how and why you use blasting spells.
My personal favorite blasting methods tend to be simple and cheap. A Book of Harms lets you maximize an evocation spell 1/day in exchange for taking 1d4 damage per level of the spell you maximize. I'm willing to take 1-3d4 damage to maximize a magic missile, lightning bolt, scorching ray, fireball, or whatever, to use it when I need it; but since blasting is a niche sort of casting that is neither frequently called for nor suitable for various situations, I see very, very little need to ever specialize in blasting; when there are much better alternatives for specialization (including simply specializing in surviving).
But for the record, being willing to admit something's shortcomings is not an indication of hate towards that thing. Talking about the drawbacks of blasting is no more a display of hate for blasting than talking about a longsword making for a cruddy ranged weapon means I hate longswords. The more you know!
EDIT: Just for example. Your most recent post basically revolves around checking to see if you will actually need to follow the rules for your blasters, and how many feats, certain class features, magic items, and so forth to make your character viable and specializing in something you yourself notes as being something you don't plan to do on a regular basis; and most of your argument for being viable revolves around not casting blasting spells or by trying to call black tentacles a blasting spell; which just seems dishonest; and you end up explaining the god's honest truth about it here:
you wished you prepared like Resist Energy, Fly, another Haste or something. Sometimes blasting isn't the right choice, so have some variety. Also keep in mine that blasting is going to be more expensive, more resource heavy on feats, takes planing and resource management. If you don't want to do any of that, it may not be for you.
EDIT 2: So more resource intensive, more class feature's intensive, more feat intensive, more difficulty choosing spells; for what amounts to little to no gain compared to just being a wizard who specializes in things that are useful, and drops a blast here and there when the moment calls for it.
I'm personally rather fond of building x/day blasting rods and the like for such purposes. Having a CL 9th magic missile 5/day can be handy.
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Not trying to be contrary here, but the environment rules explicitly state instantaneous-duration spells don't normally catch characters on fire. Since dry clothing and hair is generally much more flammable than green wood or grass, the issue of forest fires should almost never crop up.
Do note that Fireball explicitly does set combustible things aflame though.
Not trying to be contrary here, but the environment rules explicitly state instantaneous-duration spells don't normally catch characters on fire. Since dry clothing and hair is generally much more flammable than green wood or grass, the issue of forest fires should almost never crop up.
AGAIN...I never said that it did. I said it torched unattended objects. As long as a creature is up and kicking about, then it provides a nice little bubble for all its gear. RAW, you can get swallowed by the Tarrasque and until you croak, its acid damage does not harm your equipment. However, the moment you're dead, your objects are unattended which means they're probably toast in a few rounds.
Leave out some dry clothing and hair, unattended, and you'll find it burns up just fine. Is it odd that you can hold a T-Shirt and make it near fire-proof until you're dead? Er, maybe, but I've never complained about it before. Otherwise we'd just be running around naked.
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stuff...
Well we are talking about the RAW pros and cons of blasting here.
...stuff
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread is about making blasting worthwhile. Not the best, but worthwhile. Can we leave the tired "blasters VS non-blasters" argument elsewhere? Please? It's been a dead horse since 3.0
Here, let me help:
I'm a big fan of taking a 2-level dip in arcane archer for imbue arrow. Getting longbow range on Stormbolts can be decent, and is a lot of fun.
stuff...
Well we are talking about the RAW pros and cons of blasting here.
...stuff
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread is about making blasting worthwhile. Not the best, but worthwhile. Can we leave the tired "blasters VS non-blasters" argument elsewhere? Please? It's been a dead horse since 3.0
Here, let me help:
I'm a big fan of taking a 2-level dip in arcane archer for imbue arrow. Getting longbow range on Stormbolts can be decent, and is a lot of fun.
Considering anyone who wants to be good at blasting best know the downsides, I'd think you would have recognized the benefit here. If not, I'll explain. A critical part of playing ANY caster is knowing your arsenal. Blasting is above and beyond save DCs and damage numbers. For example, the OP mentioned absolutely NOTHING about the dangers of blasting, beyond merely noting that he liked energy protection spells to cast on his allies so he doesn't blow them up. If you plan to be a good blasty-sorcerer (or wizard or druid), then for goodness sakes at least know where the safety line ends.
I actually did mention how to make for a good blaster. Blasters are killer at interrupts. Heck, screw dispel magic and counterspelling. Dedicated blasters can strike fear into enemy casters; simply because they're basically promised a "try to cast a spell, get a face full of death, fail to cast a spell".
Why don't you cease your fanboyish groaning and actually discuss the pros and cons of blasting, how to use blasting effectively, and how to minimize your collateral damage while maximizing your overall effectiveness; eh?
stuff
Why don't you cease your fanboyish groaning and actually discuss the pros and cons of blasting, how to use blasting effectively, and how to minimize your collateral damage while maximizing your overall effectiveness; eh?
Because the pros and cons of blasting have been discussed, at length, elsewhere. (They get out-damaged on single targets by strikers and don't have the nearly the tactical value of controlers. We know.) Because this thread, explicitly, is not trying to make the best character; it's trying to make the best character within the limitations of being primarily or purely a blaster. Because, believe it or not, some people aren't trying to "win" DnD. Because your table is not the same as my table is not the same as everyone else's table. Because in a game that is mostly doing EL-appropriate encounters played as intelligently as INT scores suggest by a GM who is not metagame-screwing his players, you don't need to be the "best". Because you don't have the right to utterly derail a thread because "someone is wrong on the internet".
Also, saying you talked about how to make a good blaster is more than a bit of a cop-out; that's not why you're here. That's one paragraph in two pages of posts. You're here to argue, and unfortunately we're not just ignoring you like we should.
Also, a preemptive "Please post nicely" note.
Thanks Liz Courts, I changed some of my rebuttal to reflect being nicer. Let’s start fresh.
A God-Wizard needs just as much TLC as a blaster or any other character you decide to make. Both wizards mentioned above are built differently and have a different mindset. I feel a blaster tends to focus more on increasing the DC saves of their spells, metamagic feat selection and INT for increasing the DC's of their spells. You need to decide what your go to spells for blasting, nuking, melting, incinerating, shattering, freezing or what have you to be. I like Scorching Ray and Fireball. Yes, fire resistance is around the top resistances and immunities in the game, but I have back up spells and feats for that and you should too. Here are some things that you might want to consider getting if you’re making a blaster wizard. This is just suggestions and not a full on list to help along the way.
Spells….
I’m not going to really advise any particular ones. My best suggestion is to look over AS MANY SPELLS AVALIBLE IN YOUR GAME. Your DM will say what books are allowed. Take the time to understand them and make the wisest choices on your blaster spells, and don’t load up on nothing but blaster spells. That is a recipe for disaster. Lina Inverse (The Slayers anime) didn’t just cast Fireball, Dark Schneider (Bastard!! Anime) didn’t just use fire and lightning spells and neither should you. Pick spells that help your party and destroy your victims.
Metamagic Feats………..
Selective Spell – for a +1 increase to spell slot used, you can leave out a number of targets in the area of effect of an instantaneous spell equal to your relevant ability score modifier. You can drop that Fireball on the party and not have them affected if your INT is high enough. Drawback is you need 10 ranks in spellcraft, so a while ways away.
Quicken Spell – kinda self-explanatory I think. +4 increase to spell slot used to make a spell a swift action to cast. Extra Fireballs or True Strike to get that ray spell the extra punch it needs to hit higher touch ac in bad situations or kill concealment in most cases.
Empower Spell – increase the variables of your Fireball by 50% for a cost of +2 increase to spell slot used when you hit lvl 10, yes please. I recommend using this on spells that have already hit their damage cap, but you might have spells in that level group that might do more damage. Do the math and decide if you want to use it.
Elemental Spell – since most blaster spells are elemental, this seems like a natural choice. For +1 increase to spell slot used you can change the energy damage from one type to your selected one when you get this feat. If you chose cold, you can make your Fireball into a cold damage. I tend to notice if a monster has fire resistance; it usually doesn’t have cold resistance. Choose an energy type to complement your style (as you can tell, I like fire. In Fireball We Trust.)
Intensify Spell – For a +1 increase to spell slot used, you can increase the damage cap of your spell by 5 levels. So now the Fireball’s cap went from 10d6 to 15d6 when you metamagic it up with this at the cost of a 4th level spell and using the DC of a 3rd level spell. I have found it useful.
Other Feats…..
Craft Wondrous Item – starting at lvl 3 you can start making your equipment you’ll need for half the cost. I recommend making Pearls of Power so you don’t have to use a bunch of spell slots of a ton of blaster spells. They did change the level requirement on how to make lower level Pearls of Power, so it’s not flat 17 Caster Level. Remember: to have only blaster spells leaves you no utility to protect yourself or help your group.
Scribe Scroll – You get this automatically, but I felt I should still mention it. You’ll be able to make cheat spells at a cheap price. I would use it for those rainy days spells that you don’t always need prepared. It’s up to you to decide what those are. I normally have Fly and See Invisibility as scrolls.
Toughness – Extra HP for your low HP agroness.
Improve Familiar – Get a beefier familiar, and it uses your skill ranks. If you have lots of ranks in Use Magic Device, load this sucker up with scrolls, wands or what have you and have it help you nuke or cast other spells.
Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration – Blasting has to pass SR. If you fail it, you deal no damage. Fact: failed SR = useless. Other casters can get screwed as well by failed SR, but they have spells and tricks to get around that. As a blaster you have less. You will cry, you will be made fun of and you will hate your life when it happens. Please get these sooner than later. Sooner is based on your game imo.
Equipment……
Pearls of Power – This makes it so you don’t need as many spell slots and resources dedicated to blasting and can have a more rounded spell list. If you have enough of them, you very well make a Sorcererish type wizard just from the shear amount of pearls you can have. Downside: standard action to recall said spell. Good for after the fight is over.
Headband of Vast Intelligence – Increases your amount of spell slots and DC’s of your spells. Kind of a staple.
Glove of Storing – Free action store 1 item into the glove, free action retrieve said item from glove. I used this for storing a Rod or Wand for easy access without need of Quick Draw feat or spending a move action to get them.
Metamagic Rods – In general, Metamagic Rods cost a lot and give out a lot in return in general. 3/day you can add a metamagic to a spell, as part of the casting, without increasing the spell slot used! AMAZING! Almost any Metamagic Rod you get is worth its salt. I personally like Maximize, Elemental, Dazing and Merciful Rods. Almost all of the metamagic feats can be found in Rods. Rod of Quicken Spell is basically a staple when you can get it and it can break encounters.
General Advice…..
+First and foremost: Talk to your DM. Let them know you want to play a blaster and find out how they handle blasters spells. Will the Fireball melt everything constantly? Will Acid Spray turn the guy into a puddle, along with all his loot, if he botches his save and dies? Can he describe your area in detail so you don’t destroy everything in sight or kill innocent bystanders? Will he just wave his hand when you Ice Storm and not worry about the finer details about the area? This will help with headaches down the road when you know the repercussions of your spells.
+Have a well-rounded spell book. Having as your third level spells as Fireball, Haste and Fly is great. It lets you do many things and still blast constantly if you prepare for blaster spells then general spells. Don’t be afraid to just stick with a single blaster spell. Metamagic feats help make that 1 spell into many types.
+Think before you blast. If you honestly feel casting Haste is better than a Fireball, be cool and do the right thing. Don’t cast Fireball or Cone of Cold on something that is immune to it or has evasion. If it’s immune to fire, cast cold. If it has evasion, cast ray spells. Mindlessly blasting will only cause problems. But that’s leads to…
+Be a blaster and let the party know it. You’re not a constant buff bot, God-Wizard or debuffer. The Fighter didn’t sign up as a Fighter to just become a walking bandage with a Cure Light Wounds wand, why become something you didn’t create to be?
+Know your spells and spell combos. Combo feats, class skills, landscape, everything you have to bring to the table. You have to think and plan far more than other caster types because you can be countered by a lot of things. SR, Energy Resistance, Buff Spells against your energy type, immunities and Evasion (Improve) and just a sample of headaches to deal with, but you’re up to that challenge right?
+Ask about 3rd Party books you might have or 3.5 D&D feats and spells. Worst that can happen is they say no. Offer to test it out and change it out if your DM and party don’t like it.
+Above all else: Have fun and have fun with everyone. Play a character you enjoy and even the downsides a blaster has can be negated as long as you have fun doing it.
Hopefully others will chime in with advice and offer experiences. I'll try and post my Fireball Specialist Wizard later that I used to play.
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Because the pros and cons of blasting have been discussed, at length, elsewhere. (They get out-damaged on single targets by strikers and don't have the nearly the tactical value of controlers. We know.) Because this thread, explicitly, is not trying to make the best character; it's trying to make the best character within the limitations of being primarily or purely a blaster. Because, believe it or not, some people aren't trying to "win" DnD.stuff
Why don't you cease your fanboyish groaning and actually discuss the pros and cons of blasting, how to use blasting effectively, and how to minimize your collateral damage while maximizing your overall effectiveness; eh?
Ooh, he pulled the "win DnD" card. Oh-ho, I'd best be on my dirty little powergamer toes to keep up with such sharp ripostes!
Look, dude, you can whine about my commentary here all you'd like, but it has a place in this thread as much as anywhere else. I haven't said anything about winning anything. Just pointed out that if you're going to do your part, then you'd better darn well know what you're doing. Let me quote the OP, since you seem to think we're off topic here:
Anyways, how do you guys like to blast? Any tips you've got for the rest of us?
So I said. I like to blast sparingly, and when I do blast, I blast hard; preferring things like Book of Harms for free maximization, lesser metamagic rods, emphasis on low-level blasts for cheap, hard hitting damage for the purposes of disruption; favoring spells that auto-hit or are relatively difficult to completely avoid. Why should I even care if they make their Reflex save against my 60 damage lightning bolt? Unless they're sporting energy resistance above 10, they're eating a DC 30+ Concentration check for what was only a 3rd level spell slot on my part and either a 1/day book trick or a single use of a 3/day rod.
Dur-hur-hur. *ogre laugh*
Because your table is not the same as my table is not the same as everyone else's table. Because in a game that is mostly doing EL-appropriate encounters played as intelligently as INT scores suggest by a GM who is not metagame-screwing his players, you don't need to be the "best". Because you don't have the right to utterly derail a thread because "someone is wrong on the internet".
Oh, I can see the rapier wit flourishes onward. Yeah, let's go ahead and accuse me of metagaming for pointing out how setting forests on fire is a Bad Idea (TM); while suggesting I'm only here to argue; while completely ignoring any and all pro-blasting I've actually said in the thread. Agile wit, bad Perception, I guess. :\
Also, it's really cute to see you go on about stuff that is irrelevant to either us or the topic. Seeing as most of my commentary concerning the drawbacks of blasting was concerning the destructive power that some folks desperately try to overlook (a trait often associated with munchkins, since we're throwing around P&P terms). Sorry, that doesn't sit right with me. Likewise, some of the things said in some of these threads is borderline lying about the usefulness of certain options in general; and in those cases I point out some of the stuff that's highly suspect. Part of that is the value of trying to make dealing damage a high priority, when pumping damage on AoEs is generally asking for collateral damage in extremes, while pumping direct fire damage pales next to alternatives.
Also, saying you talked about how to make a good blaster is more than a bit of a cop-out; that's not why you're here. That's one paragraph in two pages of posts. You're here to argue, and unfortunately we're not just ignoring you like we should.
Yes, yes, I've noticed that you ignored the other posts and apparently only saw one paragraph concerning it. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that there was a side-discussion with a few people over the actual nuts and bolts of blowing up your treasure horde while fighting Mr. Dragon; which I did spend a few posts ironing out and explaining in detail - with rule citations for the convenience of readers - to show I wasn't just hating on blasting.
Feel free to ignore me. It'd probably be better that way; because unlike the conversations I was having concerning the dangers of reckless blasting which can leave you without two copper pieces to rub together, this conversation has provided absolutely nothing worthwhile to the thread other than a demonstration of how people easy it is for people to jump the gun and start calling people names, accusing them of metagaming, or trying to paint others as something they are not. Perhaps useful for a social experiment; but horribly off topic for the thread.
Also, blasting sux. I'm joking here, lighten up guys
Also, a preemptive "Please post nicely" note.
Of course, ma'am. ^-^
favoring spells that auto-hit or are relatively difficult to completely avoid. Why should I even care if they make their Reflex save against my 60 damage lightning bolt? Unless they're sporting energy resistance above 10, they're eating a DC 30+ Concentration check for what was only a 3rd level spell slot on my part and either a 1/day book trick or a single use of a 3/day rod.
You know, you're really starting to convince me to ready my actions for this SO much more often. Since I'm playing a gish, my blasty bits interrupting the boss's much higher spells is fantastic. Finger of Death stopped by a Lightning Bolt... XD I love it.
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Also, just to drive home the point, let's look at what a basic, un-buffed fireball spell will do if you drop it into an area. Your basic unbuffed 5d6 fireball statistically will deal 5d6 (17.5 average) damage and specifically sets things on fire. If you drop it into a room, you will destroy the following all or most of the time:
All paper and/or cloth items will be destroyed wholly.
All rope will be destroyed wholly.
7 inch thick glass objects will be destroyed.
1 inch thick leather or hide objects will be destroyed....
I would hope that most GMs would let you toss fireballs around without destroying every piece of treasure in the game.
Because most GMs would want the game to be fun.
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I've been in bars where fireballs in melee has occured... rogues rolling reflex saves out the windows, everything else going boom! Yep... gotta watch out for those mages who have a few hp and some fire protection... lolz. Hot toddy anyone?
I had a wizard use acid arrow, feated into fire arrow, on a few different barrels of potent alcohol in a bar fight a few times for magically made molotovs. Unseen servant, place this barrel over yonder! kaboom-blamo!
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I thought I might toss out a few druid-blaster tips, since there are few blaster-druid builds floating around; and they actually make surprisingly good mobile interrupters.
Druid blasting is questionable at first. It suffers from being less efficient than weapons (like normal blasting) while also generally relying on damage over time, so it makes most druid blasting somewhat poor for disrupting spells (at least in the wee levels). However, most druid blasting is sustainable in addition to other options, or requires little effort for them to maintain. This can lead to what I call "Warlock Blasting", after the World of Warcraft class of the same name.
In WoW, Warlocks are a popular blasting class, but not for their instant direct damage like mages, but for their ability to stack damage over time effects. Many druid DoT spells last multiple rounds, and can be cast successively, which can cause excessive damage when stacked, and call for many Concentration checks. This is similar to alchemist-fire spam, only in spell format.
Finally, I feel druids are pretty solid options as blasters simply because they can spontaneously drop any blasting spell to summon a big stupid monster on command. A demon is immune to your favorite elemental damage spell? Call up an angry elemental instead. That makes them pretty versatile for battlefield control, assisting allies, and debuffing enemies without really trying to.
Spell Overview
Produce flame is a 1st level spell that grants you a touch or ranged touch attack of 1d6+5, and lasts 1 minute per level. You may throw the flames as a ranged touch attack up to 120 feet with no penalty, but each attack reduces the duration by 1 minute, which means you won't have a of attacks generally. I'm fond if using a lesser metamagic rod of extend when using this spell, which doubles the number of attacks you can have. Since the spell isn't actually a touch spell, you can keep making the attacks and holding the flames even while casting other spells or moving about in animal form. A flying druid can drop 7-11 fire bolts down on enemies as a ranged touch attack quite handily; which is very effective in the early game where fire resistance is a bit less common. EDIT: Also, Dazing Spell!
Chill/heat metal is also pretty nice. It's a will-save DoT that you can fire and forget. It's ideal against most martials who have questionable will saves and wearing metal armor. Since it can affect multiple creatures as you gain levels, it can be a deterrent for holding weapons and the like. This is also the druid's version of acid arrow for use with Dazing Spell, as it hits multiple rounds for save vs stun.
Fire trap can be used offensively with a little effort. Anytime the trapped object is opened, everything in a 5 ft. radius must save vs 1d4+caster level damage (+20 max). Not bad for a 2nd level spell. If you scatter fire-trapped objects about and have a method of opening them upon command (such as with mage hand, open/close, or some other method). I'm fond of trapping containers the party uses, since you can allow chosen people to bypass the trap; preventing unwanted pickpockets.
Flaming sphere is another fire and forget spell that lasts 1 round/level. Dealing 3d6 damage, it exists primarily as a moving deterrent to stepping in certain places, is a good prospect for Dazing Spell, and can be cast and directed when you'd rather be saving your better spells.
Flame blade is exceptionally nice for melee druids, allowing you to make iterative touch attacks for up to 1d8+10 fire damage per strike, and makes a good option if you plan to dual-wield as a druid. It's not a bad spell to use a Lesser Rod of Empower on, since you'll increase your damage by a bit more than +5 easily enough, but maximizing it isn't all that great. It's a good spell to craft into a magic item so you can form a pair of them quickly if you want to dual-wield. Also not a bad option for dazing spell, as a melee touch with iterative attacks that forces a Will save vs dazed for 2 rounds is actually very nice.
Call lightning is the bread and butter druid blast for quite a few levels. When you get it, you get 5 bolts of lightning at 3d6 a pop (3d10 if the weather is a bit ugly). Again, Dazing Spell is glorious for druids here, as every time you hit an enemy with a bolt they must make a Reflex save or be dazed 3 rounds. You get up to 10 bolts per casting, and it's a 3rd level spell so it's attractive for lesser rod usage. It's also a wonderful casting deterrent if you maximize it while it's a bit breezy; since 30 damage per bolt can make for a fine concentration check, or just outright kill something in a few rounds.
Spike growth isn't actually a blasting spell, but I'm throwing it out here because it's just mean. The spell itself covers a disgustingly huge area, and deals 1d4 damage for every 5 ft. a creature moves across it, then forces a Reflex save or have their speed hosed. Again, Dazing Spell is gross with this spell, as every time they take damage from the spell, it's a Reflex save or be dazed 3 rounds. That is so very, very cruel to open a battle up with (you can easily ensnare many enemies, and if they're land bound, they may be screwed).
Flame strike is the 7th level druid's big-bomb of choice. It reaches up to 15d6 damage and is half effective against creatures immune to fire (as only half the damage can be negated with fire immunity or resistances), making it surprisingly good for disrupting casters or creatures with energy resistances. It's also an AoE, but a small one (10 ft. radius) which means you can potentially hit multiple foes, but also aim it pretty reasonably to keep goodies from being destroyed. This spell combos very well with the incense of meditation which I will mention further down.
Spike stones, see spike growth only with more damage and new types of terrain to cast it on.
Call lightning storm is the 9th level druid's killer blasting spell. Dealing 5d6 or 5d10 damage per bolt, and having up to 15 bolts, this spell is in every way better than your old call lightning. With metamagic rods, you might get a very potent Dazing effect on it, which can be dangerous as it dazes for 5 rounds on a failed save. If maximized (such as via incense of meditation (see below), then it is silly strong, slamming enemies for up to 50 electricity damage per pop for up to 15 pops. Now that will get someone's attention. You could keep a wizard busy through a whole battle like that, and even most fiends don't have more than electricity resistance 10.
Fire seeds is an 11th level druid's dirty little trick. Producing between 4 10d4 grenades or 8 berry bombs. Each berry bomb deals 1d8 damage +1 per caster level (no limit) with a reflex save for half when a special word is spoken within 200 ft. At 20th level, you can place all 8 bombs somewhere and speak the word to deal 8d8+160 fire damage (but energy resistance will apply for each berry). Like most high-level druid blasts, incense of meditation is pretty mean when using this spell, since each casting will give you 4 grenades that deal 40 damage (no save) as a splash weapon; which makes it pretty good for burst damage and for disrupting casting.
Fire storm is available at 13th level for druids and is pretty mean when combined with incense of meditation. You get two columns of 10 ft. fire per caster level, and it has the rare shapeable spell quality, allowing you to shape the AoE as desired, which makes it very easy to avoid bystanders, setting loot aflame, and specifically doesn't burn up plants and such unless desired. The spell deals up to 20d6 fire damage, so as far as blasts go, it's not a bad one for disrupting stuff or just causing some general chaos. It also can catch enemies on fire dealing an additional 4d6 fire damage each round until a DC 20 Reflex save is made as a full-round action. When maximized, that's pretty mean (you must stop to extinguish the flames or eat 24 fire damage every round).
Sunbeam provides up to 6 beams that deal 4d6 non-elemental damage (hah, eat that resistance) and forces Reflex saves vs being permanently blinded. That hurts. It's also your go-to anti-undead and anti-fungi/mold/ooze spell, as it deals up to 20d6 damage per bolt to such creatures. Finally, if the creature is vulnerable to light somehow (like wraiths, vampires, etc), then it also functions as a save or die. Nice spell, and only druids get it. Incidentally, the spell also has no maximum range. You can just fire it in a strait line and it affects everything in its path until LoE is blocked (whee!). Finally, since it's both a Reflex save and non-elemental damage, it's a pretty good candidate for a greater metamagic rod of Dazing spell (6 rays with a save vs Daze 7 rounds).
Sunburst is the 15th level druid's answer to AoE domination. Unlike most AoEs, sunburst only affects creatures; so again, no collateral damage with Sunburst. It affects a massive 80 ft. radius and a long (400 ft. +40 ft./level) range, and permanently blinds all enemies who fail a Reflex save. Gosh, these druids really do have quite a few things that really rail enemies with imperfect Reflex saves. The damage is a mere 6d6 non-elemental damage, but against undead it's up t 25d6; which makes this a save or suck + blasting option; especially with paired with incense of meditation or greater dazing rod.
Elemental swarm isn't a blasting spell, but it's the best 9th level spell a druid that plans on using incense of meditation can get, as it will literally summon a small army of elementals (8 large elementals, 4 huge elementals, 1 greater elemental). It's a strong way to turn the tide of battle. Combined they can often deal some solid damage, make amazing meat-shields, and have useful special powers (whirlwind increases your lightning spells). Otherwise, 9th level spell slots might be best used for metamagic versions of lower level spells.
Incense of Asswhupping
Okay, so I'm sure by now, anyone who hasn't bothered to check is wondering what this incense of meditation is all about. Well my friends, it's a special wondrous item only allowed to divine casters. When the candle is burnt while you prepare your spells, all of your spells are maximized for free (no spell level increase). It's expensive though, costing 2,450 gp to create yourself. Personally, I think it's entirely worth it; especially if your party is willing to chip in. It affects all spells, so it maximizes any healing, summons, and/or blasting spells you use. If your entire party chips in (about 500 gp each, per adventure), you can burn one of these once per adventure at higher levels and rock socks with your auto-50 damage dazing lightning bolts.
Other Tools and Options
Obviously, a few metamagic rods and Dazing spell are really, really, reeeeeaaaally nice for druids. But here's some other good options for druids to look into.
Superior Summonings: This feat makes it so that you summon +1 creature whenever you use a summoning spell that summons more than 1. Wonderful feat for druids given their ability to spontaneously cast summoning spells. Combined with incense of meditation and you can call up to 6 creatures on demand.
Rime Spell: Druids will typically have few cold spells, but they do get a few (like Ice Storm) and Chill Metal by default. Rime Spell only increases a spell's level by 1, and entangles any foe that is damaged by a cold spell for a number of rounds equal to the spell's original level. If you combine it with the Elemental Spell (Cold), you can keep enemies endlessly entangled as you blast them with cold-elemental lightning bolts round after round.
Elemental Spell: As mentioned above, druids typically deal in electricity and fire, so being able to get spells in other elements may help in certain situations. Cold is a favorite, as it rarely damages treasure very effectively (damage is quartered before hardness is applied) and opens up uses for Rime Spell as noted before. This feat can also be used to get around immunity to electricity with your bolt spells. The +1 spell level sucks though, since you're already spending a feat just to get the benefit. You might want to check with your GM if you can use the 3.5 Energy Substitution feat instead. Same effect, but without the level tax.
You know, you're really starting to convince me to ready my actions for this SO much more often. Since I'm playing a gish, my blasty bits interrupting the boss's much higher spells is fantastic. Finger of Death stopped by a Lightning Bolt... XD I love it.
Glad to be of service! (^-^>|= *tips hat*
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It's not meant to be any kind of guide, but rather a place to discuss how to get the most out of your blasting.
...but it's not a guide right? ;)
In any event to get the most of something you must know the pros and cons of it, which is what Ashiel was trying to explain. <--Did I really have to type the portion of that sentence before the comma, really? SMH
I think this is pretty well the go to build
Traits- Wayang Spellhunter (Burning Arc), Magical Lineage (Fireball)
Race: Human
Pump Int
11 Cha
1- Admixture.Wizard-. Spell Focus: Evocation Spell Specialisation.
2- Crossblooded Sorcerer-Orc, Green Dragon Bloodline
# This lets you on the fly change any elemental damage spell to another element.
Orc bloodline.gets +1 damage per d6
Green Dragon gets you +1 per d6 on acid spells (least resisted energy type)
* Admixture wiz all the way to 20. Feats are
3- either Varissian tattoo or Extra Traits (Loreseeker for +1 CL and DC on 3 evoc spells: Burning Arc, Fireball, Dragons Breath) and another trait (whatever, maybe reactionary)
Then Intensify Spell (char level 5)
Heigthen Spell (wiz bonus, char level 6)
Preffered Spell (fireball, char level 7)
Empower Spell (char level 9)
Improved Familiar, Wiz bonus-Dazing.Spell (char level 11)
Spell Penetration (char level 13)
Spell Perfection.(char level 15)
Wiz Bonus- Gtr Spell penetration.(wiz 15, char 16)
Gotta go. I'm sure someone can explain why a Empowerd, Intesified Acid fireball (15d6+30)x 1.5 ave 124damage with a 5th level slot is awesome (You can do this at char level 13 BTW)
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Side note,
It doesn't matter if you melt every item on all the npc's bodies. If you're following raw, then you're following wealth by level, which means your dm will figure out a way to get you the appropriate amount of wealth. No matter how many swords are sundered, or bows burned.
The nice thing about dungeons is that many of them are made from stone and thus perfect for fireballs.
Why is it awesome?
CR13 Adult Blue Dragon 184 hp
CR 13 Glabrezu Demon 186 hp, resist 10
CR 13 Storm Giant 199 hp
At Char level 13 you are a 12 th level wizard. So you can cast 6th level spells.
If you currently have Spell specialisation (Fireball) and Loreseeker, then you can cast a
Heightened, Intensified, Empowered Acid Fireball in a 6th level slott with a 8th level DC.
Your ave expected Damage is 124. Enough to drop them in 2 rds.
You come across said.Adult blue dragon with a bunch of Minions?
Well.your one spell killed all the minions and took the boss to 1/4 HP.
Pretty optimal to me. Let the BSF finish it off with 1 hit. Job done.
I just love well-built blasters.
A 15th-level NPC fighter with a focus on Constitution would only have about 172 hit points. (That's average hit points with a Constitution score of 22.) A CR 14 monster would only have about 200 hit points.
A well-built 15th-level sorcerer, with Spell Perfection, Intensified Spell, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell, and a lesser metamagic rod of Quicken Spell (among other things) can deal an average of 306 damage (round down) with his fireball spell in a single round. With the magical lineage trait and the Elemental Spell metamagic rod, this doesn't to be fire damage.
That's enough to outright kill a small army of 15th-level NPC fighters or CR 14 monsters. Even with successful reflex saves and/or fire resistance, the damage is still so high as to take off anywhere from a third to half their life in one round. Most sane creatures won't want to wait around for a second salvo.
That's just what one blaster can do. He's only down two spell slots and still has an entire party eagerly waiting to mop up whatever meager hit points those bags of XP have left.
My blasty sorcerer back in 3.5 almost killed half the party when the GM blocked my fireball with a readied casting of wall of force. I imagine your sorcerer wouldn't be too happy about that either :)
It takes effort to be a good blaster, it takes very little effort to be a controller. Spend your feats on blasting, you still have character build resources to be a good controller.
As a GM I just got done using a mid level boss, APL +2 against my party doing a caravan escort mission. He had quickened vanish and wall of force for his highest level slots, so he cast wall of force to divide the party from the caravan, then vanished. 2nd round he fireballed the caravan, destroying part of it utterly, than vanished again. Since he had fly and dimensional door available, he was nearly impossible to nail down. He got stopped only by a readied charm spell.
One of the PCs was like, that's not fair to use him how I was, not only higher level, but flying around nuking ect. I told them that he wouldn't have played that way if the druid wasn't flying around on his roc, and the other PCs doing things that only leveled PCs do. I told them at the beginning that I would stay within APL appropriate encounters, but within that I wouldn't pull punches. Sorcerer treated the party like the danger that they were, still completed his mission and almost got away with it (actually will get away, still has a backup plan for that).
From a GM perspective blasting is really fun. Not only do you threaten the entire party with death, they have to spend much more resources than a single heal or a handful of cure spells on the fighter. When you have 5-6 guys who are down 33 HP from that fireball, that takes much more to heal back than only having to heal 60 from the fighter who tanked the encounter. Blasting spells can often target the back line guys. Guys who tend to not move much because they want to get their full round actions off (full attacks or summons). Wizards and archers often have high dex, but neither have great reflex saves. Good chance that a level appropriate fireball will do serious damage. Unlike monsters and NPCs, PCs still have encounters that day (Baddies don't since they are dead or escaped). PCs have to worry about resources, its likely there isn't a town or time to get more healing items right away.
It's not meant to be any kind of guide, but rather a place to discuss how to get the most out of your blasting....but it's not a guide right? ;)
In any event to get the most of something you must know the pros and cons of it, which is what Ashiel was trying to explain. <--Did I really have to type the portion of that sentence before the comma, really? SMH
Thank you Wraithstrike. :)
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I thought I might toss out a few druid-blaster tips, since there are few blaster-druid builds floating around; and they actually make surprisingly good mobile interrupters.
Druid blasting is questionable at first. It suffers from being less efficient than weapons (like normal blasting) while also generally relying on damage over time, so it makes most druid blasting somewhat poor for disrupting spells (at least in the wee levels). However, most druid blasting is sustainable in addition to other options, or requires little effort for them to maintain. This can lead to what I call "Warlock Blasting", after the World of Warcraft class of the same name.
In WoW, Warlocks are a popular blasting class, but not for their instant direct damage like mages, but for their ability to stack damage over time effects. Many druid DoT spells last multiple rounds, and can be cast successively, which can cause excessive damage when stacked, and call for many Concentration checks. This is similar to alchemist-fire spam, only in spell format.
Finally, I feel druids are pretty solid options as blasters simply because they can spontaneously drop any blasting spell to summon a big stupid monster on command. A demon is immune to your favorite elemental damage spell? Call up an angry elemental instead. That makes them pretty versatile for battlefield control, assisting allies, and debuffing enemies without really trying to.
Spell Overview
Produce flame is a 1st level spell that grants you a touch or ranged touch attack of 1d6+5, and lasts 1 minute per level. You may throw the flames as a ranged touch attack up to 120 feet with no penalty, but each attack reduces the duration by 1 minute, which means you won't have a of attacks generally. I'm fond if using a lesser metamagic rod of extend when using this spell, which doubles the number of attacks you can have. Since the spell isn't actually a touch spell, you can keep making the attacks and holding the flames even while casting other spells or moving about in...
Because of this i am concidering a druid blaster...
I'd agree that an effective evoker/blaster can also be an effective controller. I would say about half of it is the actual power and choice of spells, with the other half being knowing what to use and how.
In the previous session of a game I'm in, our 10th-level party was fighting an army of demons and undead, which involved personal combat against eight vrocks while holding off a few hundred more lower-CR enemies like skeletons and shadows. (Sounds like a set-up for a TPK, I know, but we had generous NPC help.) I used Dragon's Breath and a 200-feet-long Wall of Fire against the advancing army, and Black Tentacles to stop the oncoming 40d6 electricity damage from dancing vrocks (although they were about 15 feet in the air; casting this spell in mid-air was a point of contention). I followed up with an Empowered Fireball to take a large chunk out of their health before needing to make evasive manoeuvres.
Going to need something stronger than Scorching Ray for single-target damage, though.
Incense of Asswhupping
Okay, so I'm sure by now, anyone who hasn't bothered to check is wondering what this incense of meditation is all about. Well my friends, it's a special wondrous item only allowed to divine casters. When the candle is burnt while you prepare your spells, all of your spells are maximized for free (no spell level increase). It's expensive though, costing 2,450 gp to create yourself. Personally, I think it's entirely worth it; especially if your party is willing to chip in. It affects all spells, so it maximizes any healing, summons, and/or blasting spells you use. If your entire party chips in (about 500 gp each, per adventure), you can burn one of these once per adventure at higher levels and rock socks with your auto-50 damage dazing lightning bolts.
Where can this be found, my GM dosent alow 3pp
Where can this be found, my GM dosent alow 3ppIncense of Asswhupping
Okay, so I'm sure by now, anyone who hasn't bothered to check is wondering what this incense of meditation is all about. Well my friends, it's a special wondrous item only allowed to divine casters. When the candle is burnt while you prepare your spells, all of your spells are maximized for free (no spell level increase). It's expensive though, costing 2,450 gp to create yourself. Personally, I think it's entirely worth it; especially if your party is willing to chip in. It affects all spells, so it maximizes any healing, summons, and/or blasting spells you use. If your entire party chips in (about 500 gp each, per adventure), you can burn one of these once per adventure at higher levels and rock socks with your auto-50 damage dazing lightning bolts.
It is in the core rulebook.
Because of this i am concidering a druid blaster...
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Too bad I made so many writing errors while posting it, but I was kind of doing it on the fly, and kept tabbing over to double check the names and stats of spells and such. Re-reading it, it has a lot of bad typos; but I'm glad you liked it.
Where can this be found, my GM doesn't allow 3pp
As Wraithstrike said, it's in the core rulebook. Here is a direct link from the PRD: Incense of Meditation.
Well ive stated him out and he is going to be flyng around the battlefield as a hummingbird raining death and distruction on the partys enemys.
Any other tips for a druid blaster?
Oh and check this out, i thought it was good.
Episode 2 has a druid blaster.
http://watchstandardaction.com/
Well ive stated him out and he is going to be flyng around the battlefield as a hummingbird raining death and distruction on the partys enemys.
Any other tips for a druid blaster?
Oh and check this out, i thought it was good.
Episode 2 has a druid blaster.
http://watchstandardaction.com/
I intend to do similar with the build I posted earlier. I'll need to use Monstrous Physique so I can cast though.
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Well ive stated him out and he is going to be flyng around the battlefield as a hummingbird raining death and distruction on the partys enemys.
Any other tips for a druid blaster?
At 3rd level, grab Craft Wondrous Item, and 9th level Craft Rod. That will allow you to produce your own Incense of Meditation and your own metamagic rods in duplicate (particularly Dazing Spell and maybe Elemental Spell, but you can also have others like Rime, Echoing, etc). If you have access to 3.5 sources, you might look into the Fell Drain metamagic feat. It adds a couple of levels onto a spell, but it makes the spell deal a negative level (temporary) whenever the spell deals damage; which combos very nicely with druid DoTs (10 lightning bolts could potentially mean 10 negative levels if some fool gets hit with all 10 of them). I'm mentioning this since Pathfinder sells itself as compatible with 3.5 material, and insists that you can use your existing 3.5 books.
You may consider picking up a domain instead of animal companion. Personally, I usually prefer the animal companion simply because it gives me something to run interference with (it can provide me with soft cover, protect me from AoOs, and give enemies something to carve through to get to me); but an extra spell per spell slot every day isn't terrible, nor are the special abilities you can get with some of them.
- The air domain is fair for a druid who wants to go with lots of lightning. Besides getting some useful utility spells like obscuring mist, wind walk, and wind wall, it also nets you a 1/day access to chain lightning which can be fun if you metamagic the hell out of it with your rods (dazing chain lighting can stunlock a lot of enemies at once with no collateral damage, and if you can squeeze elemental and rime, can keep them entangled for a while), and it gets whirlwind and elemental storm (air). It also grants resistances and eventual immunity to electricity.
- The fire domain is nice if you want more fire. Its low-level spells are kinda "meh", but the higher level stuff is nice. Burning hands isn't very good and fireball is too chaotic, but produce flame, wall of fire, fire shield, fire seeds, incendiary cloud, and elemental swarm (fire) are all excellent spells, especially when combined with some metamagic rods. In particular, dazing fire shield is a b%~~#, especially combined with dazing flame blade, as you force will saves vs dazing every time you're struck or strike. The fire resistance and eventual immunity are perks.
- The earth domain wouldn't even make it to this list if not for the subdomain. The normal earth domain sports little for a blaster, unless you want some nice defensive spells or a tiny bit more battlefield control (they get stuff like wall of stone). However... Sub-domain Notice: The caves subdomain provides a fairly cool spell-like ability at 8th level, but also gives druids access to create pit, spiked pit, and hungry pit; which can be used for damage, battlefield control, and offer no-SR damaging options for use with Dazing Spell. Hungry Pit deals 4d6 DR-ignoring (damage caused by spells is not subject to DR, see Damage Reduction) bludgeoning damage every round, and is a 6th level spell on this list. If you pop Dazing via meta-rod, your foes must make a Will-save every round vs being dazed inside the pit for 6 rounds. You can effectively consider them dead if they fail that.
- The water domain leaves a lot to be desired for a blaster druid. It doesn't really give anything useful that druids either don't have or don't have a substitute for, and most of its spells are situational utility (usually requiring a nearby body of water). It's not really even good for a druid who wants Rime Spell, since it actually has few cold damage spells, and Rime on a 1/day cone of cold is pretty iffy. Sub-domain Notice: The Ice subdomain is marginally better.
- The weather domain is actually not a bad idea. It has a lot of overlap with the Air domain, but it has some reasons to choose it. First off, the 8th level spell-like ability you get grants you a number of free bolts of lightning per day equal to your level. It's a surprisingly amusing ability combined with feats that modify spell like abilities (such as quicken spell-like ability, maximize spell-like ability, empower spell-like ability, which all give additional uses of the ability in addition to the special effects). Gotta love designers handing out exotic spell-like abilities like candy.
As for its spells, obscuring mist and fog cloud aren't terrible, but you hit gold at 5th+. Sporting spells like call lightning, sleet storm, ice storm, control winds, control weather, and whirlwind, it's actually kind of tempting. Most are good in general, and quite a few allow you to self-buff your call lightning spell to d10s and hamper enemies. Sleet storm is also classically considered a solid battlefield control spell.
Sub-domain Notice: The Storms subdomain is arguably better than the regular storm domain. Its 8th level aura produces conditions which buff your lightning spells to d10s, and provides call lightning storm as a 5th level spell (yay!), and the coveted sirroco which auto-fatigues anything that it damages and may knock them prone as well. Sirroco is a great druid spell on its own, and had I been listing supplemental spells in my previous post, I would have listed it as an excellent 11th level druid spell (but I tend to keep to core for simplicity and compatibility, at least until asked to elaborate).
Supplemental Spells
While I'm including non-core material, I thought I might drop a few more spells that are from splatbooks that you might find use for.
Frost fall is a fine debuffing battlefield control spell, DoT, and it combos cruelly with Rime Spell and Dazing spell. Fortitude save vs stagger (and dazed 2 rounds if Dazing spell). A good prospect for killing rogues and other low-fortitude enemies that have good Will/Reflex.
Frostbite is cruel. It allows 1 melee touch attack per level and you can deliver it via natural attack (such as when wildshaping) without expending it on a miss. Each time you hit with it, you deal 1d6 + caster level cold damage and auto-fatigue your opponent with no save. As a cold spell, it begs for Rime spell (fatigue + entangled, no save), and if you Dazing spell it, every touch threatens a will save or be dazed 1 round.
Frigid touch is the big brother of frostbite, and slams an opponent for 4d6 cold damage and auto-staggers them with no save for 1 round (stagger means you only take 1 standard or 1 move action). It can be delivered without fail through a natural attack or gauntlet strike (if you miss it is not wasted) and combined with Rime spell to auto-entangle as well. If you've burned your incense of meditation it's an easy way to add +24 cold damage + kicker effects onto a melee attack
Burst of nettles is a 10 ft. radius 3rd level blast that is non-elemental with a save that also deals 1d6 acid damage on the following round if the save is failed. Not a terrible spell, and could force saves vs Dazing as many as 2 times.
Fungal Infestation makes the list in the spirit of dirty rotten damage over time effects. The spell inflicts 1d6 bleed damage every time someone is struck with a weapon for 1d3 days. There are just so many terrible ways to make someone's life miserable with this spell. Combine this spell with Dazing spell and your opponent will cry their bloody fungus ridden eyes out.
Polar Midnight is proof that druids are still CoDzilla candidates. This spell is disgustingly awesome. It's basically a harsh DoT save or die. It reduces light levels in the area, deals 5d6 cold damage each round with no save, an additional 1d6 points of Dex damage each round with a save, and any creature that fails to move on its turn during the spell is encased in a sheet of ice, becomes helpless, and cannot breathe. To add insult to devastation, corpses in the area for 10+ rounds are destroyed, requiring resurrection or better to raise them, and you can even move the AoE up to 10 ft. each round on your turn as a move action. Did I mention it's also a 30 ft. radius spread, and even dealing 5d6 cold damage every round, is amazingly collateral damage friendly (even maximized it only deals 7 damage to objects before hardness)? If you use a Greater Dazing rod on this one, it becomes the ultimate Save or Die spell. Either they make their fortitude save or they are dazed for 9 rounds, and on the 2nd round they freeze over and become helpless and stop breathing. That's the "GG".
Burning gaze is as fun as a barrel of incendiary monkeys. Each round as a standard action you can target some fool and force them to make a save vs 1d6 fire damage. Then they have to make a save vs catching on fire and suffering an additional 1d6 damage every round. Objects worn by creatures that are flammable can also ignite. Another good candidate for Dazing Spell (lesser rod for best results), and since it lasts 1 round/level, you can burn one slot and keep trying to stun-lock people round after round; so it's good for conserving your magic for a long day (honestly, most druid DoTs are).
Stone call is a low level (2nd) druid spell that deals a small amount of non-elemental DR-ignoring damage that rarely harms valuables (average 7 damage before hardness) and creates an area of difficult terrain that lasts for 1 round/level. It offers no saves and no spell-resistance, which makes it a pretty decent option for taking apart Golems when combined with Dazing spell (golem must make a will save or be dazed 2 rounds, and golems have sucky saves). It's a hybrid damage/control spell, and since it cannot be resisted at all was worth a mention for loading kicker effects onto.
Ball lightning is worth a joygasm for druids. A 4th level spell that produces 2 3d6 electricity damage spheres plus an additional sphere at 11th, 15th, and 19th level) that last 1 round/level. Directing all of the spheres within the medium range is only a move action. Anytime something shares the same space, it is subject to the damage for the spheres (dog piling spheres on an enemy is kind of awesome). Like most druid DoTs, it combos viciously with Dazing spell, and does pretty well with Incense of Meditation as well (5 spheres each dealing 18 damage and a save vs Dazed for 4 rounds is nice). Makes a fairly effective battlefield control spell as well, since most enemies are not going to want to be near them.
Thorn body is cruel, and is your (arguably better) version of fire shield. Anything that slaps you with a melee weapon, an unarmed strike, or a natural weapon takes 1d6 points of piercing damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +15). The damage is non-elemental and ignores DR. It also deals 2d6 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) to any creature foolish enough to grapple you, and finally it adds 1d6 damage to all your natural attacks and unarmed strikes.
Holy crap, this spell is awesome! If you apply Dazing spell to it, you are a monster. Daze when you hit, daze when you've been hit, daze if you're grappled (eat that Mr. gotta maintain a grapple), and it deals respectable no-spell resistance no-save damage to anything that attacks you. You must have this spell.
Fire snake is the druid's version of cone of cold except it's fire and it's strangely shapeable. It's just a 5th level spell that deals up to 15d6 fire damage instantaneously, but since you can decide its exact path, it's surprisingly party and collateral-damage friendly.
Sirocco was mentioned earlier. It's a bit of a high level at 6th, but it deals fair damage and has two kicker effects. Firstly anything that fails its save is knocked prone. Secondly, save or not, it fatigues all creatures caught in it. It can (albeit not very effectively) ground flying creatures and make them take a bit of falling damage. Multiple castings will exhaust creatures. It also deals double damage vs water creatures, who also get a -4 to all saves. This spell is a must have. It's a harsh debuff that also does fair damage (making it also a candidate for Dazing spell to daze for 6 rounds). The fatigue and knockdown effects functions even if the target is immune to fire. Have this spell. Have it.
Stormbolts is a high end blasting spell (20d8 damage + 1 round stun) which looks nice when maximized. It stuns on a failed save (nice kicker effect). It also ignores collateral damage and any creatures you wish to ignore (no friendly fire). All in all, a pretty nice blast spell.
Clashing rocks is yet another 9th level druid save or die spell. In addition to dealing non-elemental no-SR damage that automatically knocks the foe prone regardless of size or strength, and then forces a Reflex save or be buried by a cave-in. Incidentally, if you are buried by a cave in, there is no way to save yourself except by being dug out by friendlies, and suffer damage until finally die.
The darndest thing is, it's also an AoE, and you deal damage and may knock prone enemies that you miss a little bit, or whom are in the path of your doomsday rocks. This spell is nasty enough that you don't even need to apply Dazing spell to it (unless you just want overkill), and maximized it's pretty sexy (120 no-evadable non-elemental damage vs main target and 60 non-elemental damage vs secondary targets).
Say it with me...CoDzillaaaa!
Tsunami proves that if they didn't have enough sweet 9th level spells that deal damage, we can add some more. It lasts for 5 rounds, sweeps enemies away, deals 8d6 non-elemental DR-ignoring damage, is not subject to spell resistance, knocks enemies prone if you beat their CMD with a d20 + caster level + wisdom + 8, destroys structures pretty handily, and deals another 6d6 non-elemental non-resistable damage every round that the creature is swept off. Again, since it's a DoT, a greater meta-rod of Dazing can utterly screw any enemy in its path.
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There is a fair possibility that by my posting this, that there are going to be some serious nerfs going on in the near future. Probably to dazing spell, but possibly to some spells in general; but most assuredly to Dazing spell. It'll be sad, but I can hear the PFS GM's crying already.
...grab Craft Wondrous Item...That will allow you to produce your own Incense of Meditation...
Umm, Bless is not on the Druids spell list, can you make an wonderous item using a scroll or wand?
...grab Craft Wondrous Item...That will allow you to produce your own Incense of Meditation...
Umm, Bless is not on the Druids spell list, can you make an wonderous item using a scroll or wand?
You don't need to. You can ignore the bless requirement by increasing the spellcraft DC to craft it by +5. The base DC is normally 5 + caster level of the item. This just makes it 10 + caster level. If you have a 7 Int, and just put 1 rank into Spellcraft at each level, you can take 10 to craft one as early as 5th level. Which is entirely fine, given that it's too expensive to use at very low levels; but at very low levels you won't need the extra oomph to keep your blasting scary (at 5th level, call lightning tends to be pretty scary by itself).
I wish the Arcane Heirophant Prc would get brought back... These last few posts is why evoker/druid/ah was my fav character of all..
Does dazing spell metamagic count as blasting with control on the side or control with blasting on the side? It looks like you're in it mainly for the daze aspect, so the damage is really just incidental.
Does dazing spell metamagic count as blasting with control on the side or control with blasting on the side? It looks like you're in it mainly for the daze aspect, so the damage is really just incidental.
They deal enough sustainable damage without over emphasis on metamagic (and later for around the cost of a 2nd level potion for every party member) that their damage dealing is not bad (not great, but not bad), and many of their spells have kicker effects which can debilitate enemies. In short, druid blasting/control is much like the druids themselves; it is often a hybrid. In many cases, druid blasting and control is essentially interchangeable; which combined with their solid mix of utility spells and ability to spontaneously summon monsters, makes them a respectable caster even amongst arcanists; IMHO.
It's true that without dazing spell you would lose a lot of your potential, and I really do mean a lot. The feat is amazing for druids. There's still some good reasons to play a blaster druid without it, but it's far less appealing. The largest theme to these druids is low to moderate damage + kicker effects. Effectively, blasting that makes enemies easier to kill (notice that all the rabidly pro-blaster people scream out that blasting is about making enemies easier to kill for your party, every time the low-end damage issue comes up); and druids do it in spades.
Now at early levels you likely won't have dazing spell (it ups 3 spell levels), but at early levels your job is to agitate enemies with more traditional spells like entangle, buff your allies, and so forth. By 3rd level, produce flame is 1d6+3 x 3 shots, flaming sphere is online, and you can begin hazing enemies with spells. By 5th level, you have call lightning, and the build begins to rev up noticeably. Some time later, you'll definitely want to craft your own lesser dazing rods (around 9th level), and maybe even buy one before 9th, if you find yourself with plenty of money (if your whole party chips in, it won't seem like that much). By high levels, you should have (IMHO) around 3 lesser dazing rods, 2 dazing rods, and at least 1 greater dazing rod; acquired with the money most classes use to buy weapons.
Just a few things that caught my eye, Ashiel...
The air domain is fair for a druid who wants to go with lots of lightning. Besides getting some useful utility spells like obscuring mist, wind walk, and wind wall, it also nets you a 1/day access to chain lightning which can be fun if you metamagic the hell out of it with your rods (dazing chain lighting can stunlock a lot of enemies at once with no collateral damage, and if you can squeeze elemental and rime, can keep them entangled for a while), and it gets whirlwind and elemental storm (air). It also grants resistances and eventual immunity to electricity.
I don't think you can "metamagic the hell out of" anything with rods, as you are prevented from ever using more than one metamagic rod at a time.
Also, he can cast chain lightning multiple times each day if he prepares it in higher-level domain slots.
...but also gives druids access to create pit, spiked pit, and hungry pit; which can be used for damage, battlefield control, and offer no-SR damaging options for use with Dazing Spell. Hungry Pit deals 4d6 DR-ignoring (damage caused by spells is not subject to DR, see Damage Reduction) bludgeoning damage every round, and is a 6th level spell on this list.
If I recall correctly, Pathfinder game developers have expressly stated a couple of times that spells dealing bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage ARE subject to damage reduction. This is a change from the way v3.5 did things. I also question whether pit spells can be dazing. The spells don't all do damage, they just create the pits.
Sirocco was mentioned earlier. It's a bit of a high level at 6th, but it deals fair damage and has two kicker effects. Firstly anything that fails its save is knocked prone. Secondly, save or not, it fatigues all creatures caught in it. It can (albeit not very effectively) ground flying creatures and make them take a bit of falling damage. Multiple castings will exhaust creatures. It also deals double damage vs water creatures, who also get a -4 to all saves. This spell is a must have. It's a harsh debuff that also does fair damage (making it also a candidate for Dazing spell to daze for 6 rounds). The fatigue and knockdown effects functions even if the target is immune to fire. Have this spell. Have it.
Sirroco does ongoing damage and causes fatigue WHENEVER it deals damage and ONLY when it deals damage. This means you can make targets exhausted with two rounds of damage. YOU DON'T NEED TO CAST IT TWICE. It also means creatures that negate the fire damage (such as from resistance or immunity) don't become fatigued, much less exhausted.
Clashing rocks is yet another 9th level druid save or die spell. In addition to dealing non-elemental no-SR damage that automatically knocks the foe prone regardless of size or strength, and then forces a Reflex save or be buried by a cave-in. Incidentally, if you are buried by a cave in, there is no way to save yourself except by being dug out by friendlies, and suffer damage until finally die.
The darndest thing is, it's also an AoE, and you deal damage and may knock prone enemies that you miss a little bit, or whom are in the path of your doomsday rocks. This spell is nasty enough that you don't even need to apply Dazing spell to it (unless you just want overkill), and maximized it's pretty sexy (120 no-evadable non-elemental damage vs main target and 60 non-elemental damage vs secondary targets).
I found something else about this spell that is often overlooked, but really nice: It's a bunker buster. It can smash things it hits. It has a Strength check modifier of +28. That means it can smash through small castles and STILL crush/bury those inside more often than not. Steel doors don't have a chance. Even one foot thick stone masonry walls tend to crumble before its might.
Ok I feel dumb (or maybe i'm trying to keep the Awesome thead alive...) but what craft do you need for incence?
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If I recall correctly, Pathfinder game developers have expressly stated a couple of times that spells dealing bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage ARE subject to damage reduction.
Your quest is to find that reference.
If I recall correctly, Pathfinder game developers have expressly stated a couple of times that spells dealing bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage ARE subject to damage reduction. This is a change from the way v3.5 did things. I also question whether pit spells can be dazing. The spells don't all do damage, they just create the pits.
Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.
So even if a spell deals slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage, RAW it ignores DR. DR itself says this. If the spell does not ignore DR, then the spell itself must specifically say this. If there is errata, that is one thing, but the PF devs say some silly things quite regularly; and their FAQs have directly contradicted the rules in the past. Feel free to show me in the PRD something proving this so.
Also, yes, pit spells deal damage. At least, most of the greater versions such as Acid Pit and Hungry Pit. They deal damage just as much as any other damaging spell.
I don't think you can "metamagic the hell out of" anything with rods, as you are prevented from ever using more than one metamagic rod at a time.
Also, he can cast chain lightning multiple times each day if he prepares it in higher-level domain slots.
I meant using the rods to squeeze more metamagic into the spell than you had room to use yourself. I wasn't intending to imply using 4 metamagic rods on the same spell. Sorry if I was unclear. Also, you could indeed prep it in higher spell slots (possibly using metamagic).
Ok I feel dumb (or maybe i'm trying to keep the Awesome thead alive...) but what craft do you need for incence?
I mentioned it before, but it's Craft Wondrous Item. Pickup Craft Wondrous item at 3rd level and you can craft your own gear. Most items that you will want (especially early on) are easily crafted in a day or two, and it can get you your staples like cloaks of resistance and what-not. By the time you've reached 9th level, you should have saved enough money with your crafting feats that you can begin working on some of your own rods, since you will not be spending a lot of money on weapons, and possibly not a lot of armor either (dragonscale breastplates are good for druids by the way). If you find that you have some spare feats, you may wish to take Heavy Armor Proficiency and eventually wear celestial dragonscale plate mail.
If you plan to use wildshape a lot, I highly recommend the wild enhancement on some medium or heavy armor. It allows you to retain your entire AC bonus from armor while wildshaping, which stacks with the natural armor bonuses for being shapechanged, and natural armor enhancements from your amulet of natural armor. If you've picked up Natural Spell, then you can be a heavily mobile armored artillery.
In fact, once you can wildshape into flying creatures, wildshaping into small tiny creatures will generally make you very difficult to touch (flying, full armor bonus + enhancements, small or smaller size bonuses to AC, bonuses to Dex from size, no armor check penalties to speed since wild only retains the bonuses and not penalties, etc). Simply fly about raining lightning and elementals on people.
Blasting becomes more effective at higher levels with the better spells. To be truely effective, blasting needs some stacking. In the last campaign I was in, a sorcerer and cleric combined theit blasts effectively.
Battle 1 versus 13 Stone Giants: Cleric won initiative, cast a Fire Storm hitting all of the Stone Giants. Sorcer went next, cast a Chain Lightning hitting all of the Stone Giants. 13 dead Stone Giants, battle over.
Battle 2 versus a special Satyr plus a dozen Ettins: Sorcerer wins initiative, Chain Lightning hits all enemies. Cleric goes next, hitting all enemies with a Fire Storm. 12 dead Ettins, the Satyr survives. Monk, Fighter and Rogue attack the wounded Satyr and finish the fight a round later.
Blasting is not effective as control if it can't eliminate enemies in one round. The goal is to reduce enemy numbers before they get an attack.
Can multipule devine casters benefit from a single incence of medatition?
Can multipule devine casters benefit from a single incence of medatition?
While I believe it would make sense to allow it to be so, the strictest interpretation might entail that you have to be the one to light the candle. I suppose if you have multiple casters all light the candle at once, you could; but that seems a bit extreme. EDIT: By extreme, I mean convoluted or wonky. I generally think that if you have to do something in a weird way to make it work (like if you must light the candle for it to work, having multiple people light the candle seems a bit arbitrary) then it probably isn't work enforcing.
To me, it just seems like the point is doing your 8 hour resting meditations with the incense; but I cannot promise how other GMs would take it. Some people already get upset about these candles, and feel they are way too good. Eh, I dunno what I think of them. They're pretty awesome. It might even be broken if one candle could function for multiple divine casters at once; but experience tells all. It's rare to see a party of 4 divine casters, but it does happen (a very easy one would be a ranger, paladin, cleric, and druid; or 2 druids + 2 clerics, 4 clerics, 4 druids, etc).
Personally, I think these candles are probably a big deterrent to brigands and the like attacking temples and clergy on their own turf. I'm sure your typical temple probably has a few of these for emergencies, and large temples that bring in large amounts of gold probably burn one every day to boost the powers of those who defend the faith. The smaller churches might have one person who uses divination spells like augury each day to see if they will need the power of the candle tomorrow. Then they can see if the temple must prepare their spells on the following day.
Alternatively, you might have some clerics that prepare their spells using the candle, and then hold their spells. Many clerics who aren't actively adventuring aren't going to use all their spells every day. A cleric could very well still be sporting maximized spells from a candle they burnt a month ago.
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Back to Sorcerer blasting for a sec please:
A cross-blooded Sorc can take Dragon/Elemental, the idea being that Elemental bloodline makes ALL the blasty goodness into the right one for the bonus +1 per die that Dragon gives...
Orc Bloodline pretty much just gives the +1 damage to ALL damage types.
The Wildblooded Primal line also gives +1 damage to spells with the energy descriptor like Dragon...but I believe that this takes the place of the ability to change energy descriptors.
So, the question is, other than going with 1 level Wiz for the Admixture school, is there a way to get the bonus to +2 damage per die rolled ala Dragon/Primal/Orc bloodlines, while still being able to swap the energy descriptor via Elemental bloodline? Or without using Elemental Metamagic rods/feat?
Also, am I correct that the Primal line couldn't be taken with a Crossblooded archetype?
So even if a spell deals slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage, RAW it ignores DR. DR itself says this. If the spell does not ignore DR, then the spell itself must specifically say this. If there is errata, that is one thing, but the PF devs say some silly things quite regularly; and their FAQs have directly contradicted the rules in the past. Feel free to show me in the PRD something proving this so.
Pathfinder FAQ: General Info - Spells & Damage. (Scroll down to "I cant [sic] help but notice ...") Also see Pellet Blast. Something that should be made more visible, to be sure. I imagine the "Spells ... ignore damage reduction" line was an oversight given that spells causing physical-typed damage are quite rare.