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One of my players became afflicted with lycanthropy (wererat) and it caused an interesting discussion within the group. Why are wererats inherently evil? The MM3.5 hints that it is due to a prejudice towards the animal type. Tossing the influence of werewolf movies aside for a moment, is it not plausible that since all animals are technically neutral, that a combination human animal would retain a bit of that neutrality? Wouldn't an afflicted lycanthrope keep a bit of the human view of things? We decided yes and opted to declare that afflicted lycanthropes retain one portion of their alignment while converting the other to neutral. So a more ethically minded LG character would become LN, while a more moral LG character would become NG.
Thoughts? Ideas from pet owners? (Come on fellow rat owners... Any of your rodents display evil tenancies?... Didn't think so... What about a good bear? Baring boo boo that is =)...
I may be wrong but I thought the alignment shift only heppened when shifted into the wereform. As long as someone who becomes aflicted by the desease is in their natural state they are the same person they were before.
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In my last campaign I played a CG swordsage who was inflicted with lycnathropy and became a werewolf. We had a cleric in the group, but I decided to keep the infection and try to harness the powers for good use. At first, I had zero control as when transformed, and acted as any normal were wolf would. My DM concluded my alignment shifted to CN. and eventually over the course of many many sessions I was able to get the transformations under control, and retain my senses when transformed. That was a TON of fun, watching my party members (their characters, not the players :) ) flip out and figure out how to restrain me once the full moon was close :)
In my campaign, Lycanthropes are totally White Wolf/Storyteller by general nature.
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I can understand an afflicted were-[insert 'evil' animal] becomeing evil, beacuse an entirely new mind set is trying to take over. Natural Lycanthropes, have a choice in alignment, just like almost anything that isn't a demon/devil/angels(and even those I say can fall[in the case of angels] or rise[devils/demons]), because they are used their animalistic qualities and use them for good or evil.
Are tieflings always evil, aasimars always good? Does a half-dragon's parent really determine his alignment?
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Curse of the Moon has some good stuff in it regarding lycanthropes and alignment change, including rules for alternative alignments for the more common lycanthropes and how to deal with cursed PCs.
In D&D and Pathfinder, "Evil" basically means "selfish". "Good" basically means "self sacrificing".
I agree with this, but want to add that it also has to do with whether one wears a white hat or black hat.
consider: animals are considered neutral because they are insufficiently intelligent to have a moral code, even if they commit (by our standards) horrible acts of wanton destruction (especially killing without apparent cause), or selfless acts (like sacrificing their life for a pack member/master, etc). same goes for vermin. mindless ergo neutral.
BUT, mindless undead are NE. why, because they wear black hats. they play for team evil (TM), and good characters are supposed to be able to enjoy killing them.
so how does this fit with lycanthropes? it is a pastiche of folklore and fiction, but animals which are traditional "enemies" of man like rats and wolves are bad, but "majestic" animals which especially europeans could admire from a distance and represent the power and beauty of nature (e.g. bears, lions) are good. So we feel no guilt killing a rat, but we do killing a lion. That, and Born from the hobbit was a good guy and a werebear (or close enough). not that DnD has anything to do with Tolkien, of course. or Tolkien with folklore for that matter...
Well, here's how I saw the "changes alignment" part of it:
Lycanthropy is a curse on top of being a disease (not a literal curse). The disease changes both your spirit and your body, slowly replacing even your most good and pious beliefs with unquenchable hunger and a need to hunt. Werewolves aren't evil because they worship demons, they're evil because they go for a more feral version of the most dangerous game. What matters is the thrill of the hunt and chase, regardless of who your target is.
Personally, I play by "doesn't change alignment" rules, with the caveat that most lycanthropes ARE evil. The disease itself doesn't turn you evil, being forced to leave the city, live in the wilderness, try to scrape and hunt for your food, and generally foster ill will towards other creatures, makes you evil.
Personally, I always thought werewolves should be lawful evil or maybe NE
Wolves are one of the more orderly animals around. Even when they kill something the alpha goes first followed in order of the pack hierarchy. Only aplhas are allowed to mate, generally
seems odd they would considered chaotic
I suspect the alignment of werewolves is based rather more on horror movies than the actual behaviour of real wolves. They're a personification of fears of the wild and the 'beast within' rather than an actual critter after all.
sure, but I think maybe they should have gone a different route
besides in D&D and newer movies (like Underworld) they are more like the wolf pack and its structure. They should change the alignment accordingly
Chaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.
Chaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.
yeah but wolves are very orderly about it
Chaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.
+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
Chaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
but of all animals wolves are some of the most orderly
but of all animals wolves are some of the most orderlyChaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
...which still doesn't put them anywhere near Lawful territory. :)
In 3.5, it states that the alignments were chosen due to cultural or stereotypical views of the animals. Werewolves are commonly seen a protagonists in classic films so that is them. Rats are seen poorly due to the plague, and how often do you hear an insult of a betrayer being called a rat.
Now I don't remember what the alignment rules are for lycanthropy though.
...which still doesn't put them anywhere near Lawful territory. :)but of all animals wolves are some of the most orderlyChaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
they are way more lawful than rats
they are way more lawful than rats...which still doesn't put them anywhere near Lawful territory. :)but of all animals wolves are some of the most orderlyChaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
That doesn't make then big L Lawful though.
That doesn't make then big L Lawful though.they are way more lawful than rats...which still doesn't put them anywhere near Lawful territory. :)but of all animals wolves are some of the most orderlyChaotic evil doesn't mean "Is never, ever, in a group with others." You can be CE and still have a pack.+1
It's not like wolf packs are democratically elected. Strongest wins. Someone stronger comes along, they take the alpha spot. They'll work together for the good of the pack, but make no mistake, those lower on the totem pole will take whatever they can get away with.
but wererats are lawful