First: this.
I'm upset.
I've seen two good discussions completely derailed yesterday and today. One regarding XP-less play and one regarding the level you should start play at after your character dies. These were potentially useful threads, fulfilling what I believe to be the highest calling of this message board.
In both of these threads there is quite clearly no right answer, and things degenerated into bickering because both sides insisted on stating that their play style was "right".
I'm going to say this _ one _ more _ time.
In matters of play style, there is no accounting for taste. We must respect a man's house-rules on the same grounds as we respect his opinion that his children are smart and his wife is beautiful.
What is actually useful on these forums is a non-contentious survey of how people actually play. This is good, because GMs who aren't sure about how to handle something can look through the and be better informed about how people play the game.
If you find that you are reading someone else's GM technique and you see a "critical flaw" in their method that would surely lead to the disintegration of your own camapign: FOR &*(@ sake don't call that person wrong, berate them, or claim your own method is better!*
*friendly advice is good, see aMiB's comments below
The forums ought to be a place where people share information, not bicker about which method is "right" to the point of personal insult.
Normally, I just ignore the bickering. When it's derailing a thread I think could actually be useful to GMs seeking answers, I try to diffuse it before it runs on for TWO WHOLE PAGES. After that point, well
Looks like we'll need to increase this CR to 25.
You couldn't be more wrong. Well, technically, you could, but it would require messing with the space-time continuum and I do not want to go there.
Sadly, that is human nature for you. We want our opinion to be acknowledged as "right" and anything that endangers that must be crushed.
Fixed. :)
Hitler was a confused artist.
You should check out the "Why are PCs forced to side with the Devil" thread. That's turning into a "was Hitler evil" debate. I predict it will end well and to everyone's satisfaction...
Evil is relative, unless it is applied to pony lawyers.
Well, contention is inevitable. But the inability to contend and still allow exchange to occur is immature and unfortunate. The more we can avoid getting stuck in winning the internetz, the better.
4 More Years for Lincoln.
I always laugh when people tell me I play a game wrong. If I'm the DM and I do something to better enhance the joy of a game for the players I'm right... It says so in AD&D 1st ed through xxxxx ed, as the GM/DM/Storyteller/etc the rules are guidelines, change them how you will.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Well, contention is inevitable. But the inability to contend and still allow exchange to occur is immature and unfortunate. The more we can avoid getting stuck in winning the internetz, the better.
Especially since I already won the internetz yearz ago. Just a quick FYI - the letter 'z' is to be randomly appended to all words henceforthz.
SO SAYETHZ THE LORDZ OF THE INTERNETZ!!1!1one!!
But the inability to contend and still allow exchange to occur is immature and unfortunate.
STFU n00b!!!1!!shift+one
Thank you, Lincoln. I was letting things get out of context.
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I largely agree with this rant. However:
If you find that you are reading someone else's GM technique and you see a "critical flaw" in their method that would surely lead to the disintegration of your own camapign: FOR &*(@ sake don't call that person wrong, berate them, or claim your own method is better!Do tell them that you've seen a flaw, and if you have what you feel is a better way of preventing that flaw, tell them. It may simply be that they haven't had their campaign disintegrate because of that flaw yet, and warning them can save them a lot of trouble.
+1
The objective is to have fun, but if someone tells you that their method solves a problem that is non-existent in their game they might want to reconsider their action.
I largely agree with this rant. However:
If you find that you are reading someone else's GM technique and you see a "critical flaw" in their method that would surely lead to the disintegration of your own camapign: FOR &*(@ sake don't call that person wrong, berate them, or claim your own method is better!Do tell them that you've seen a flaw, and if you have what you feel is a better way of preventing that flaw, tell them. It may simply be that they haven't had their campaign disintegrate because of that flaw yet, and warning them can save them a lot of trouble.
You know what, it's true.
There's a time and place — but it should never be adversarial. No good will come of that.
Friendly advice is a good thing. "You're doing it wrong" is a sentiment I have no use for. Even if someone is, in fact, "doing it wrong", there are way more helpful ways to call their attention to it.
But what I have been seeing of late is not helpful analysis. These blokes have been at eachother's throats! It's as though the one had marched into the other's living room and demanded a certain play style at gunpoint. It is a waste of everyone's time, and static in an otherwise helpful thread.
If a thread is 100% adversarial crap, I'm fine with that. I don't read it. But let's think for a moment, what are these fora really about?
Well, contention is inevitable. But the inability to contend and still allow exchange to occur is immature and unfortunate. The more we can avoid getting stuck in winning the internetz, the better.Especially since I already won the internetz yearz ago. Just a quick FYI - the letter 'z' is to be randomly appended to all words henceforthz.
SO SAYETHZ THE LORDZ OF THE INTERNETZ!!1!1one!!
Very good. Now... did I ever formerly relinquish my title over you?
...what are these fora really about?
Me.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Very good. Now... did I ever formerly relinquish my title over you?Well, contention is inevitable. But the inability to contend and still allow exchange to occur is immature and unfortunate. The more we can avoid getting stuck in winning the internetz, the better.Especially since I already won the internetz yearz ago. Just a quick FYI - the letter 'z' is to be randomly appended to all words henceforthz.
SO SAYETHZ THE LORDZ OF THE INTERNETZ!!1!1one!!
Er...uhh...I was...uh...just keeping it warm for you...
You go too far you mangy, flea-ridden mongrel.
Zip it, butterfly-hair.
~rattles Sebastian's chains~
Chain Sebastian? Are you kidding? He's much more effective when given
Man, I really wish a specific offender had showed up here to argue more. That would have been so cool.
Your lack of comedic timing ruins the joke.
Agreed.
Man, I really wish a specific offender had showed up here to argue more. That would have been so cool.
Wait! You mean this thread isn't all about me? Inconceivable!
I could argue with you if you want. But I'm enough of a hypocrite to realize that a belligerent manner isn't always helpful, and yet remain belligerent anyway!
Yeah, man. I really hated you when you first showed up.
You've been growing on me though, like some kind of parasitic fungus.
I guess it was during that whole Tiers thread, where you and I were strangely the voice of reason on opposing sides. Good time. Thanks for being slightly less hate-worthy!
I think there's a tendency to get really riled up and confrontational when you first join a forum community. I remember I did it too. I like people a lot better once they've chilled out a bit.
PS - nice hypocrisy nod.
So...you were each trying to burn the tiers down, just from opposite sides?
I am officially thorwing my hate in for the Lord of the Tubez...
I'm running on this platform
*I will Troll Flame all posters
*If anyone ever disagrees with me regardless of their intent they are n00bs/flamers/spammers/trolls/or other popular Interwebs slang that is applicable at the time.
*I will randomly add or delete leters from wordz as well as spell things with numb3rs to be know as L33T
*I will turn every thread into a flame war by posting odd things that may or may not even deal with the topic, as long as it cause InterDrama.
Don't forget TheChozyn for all your flaming N33d5.
STFU MUNCHKINS!
I've seen two good discussions completely derailed yesterday and today. One regarding XP-less play and one regarding the level you should start play at after your character dies. These were potentially useful threads, fulfilling what I believe to be the highest calling of this message board.
In both of these threads there is quite clearly no right answer, and things degenerated into bickering because both sides insisted on stating that their play style was "right".
It seems to me that in both those threads you describe, there are still people who are continuing the discussion in a mature, respectful fashion, ignoring any flammatory remarks.
I understand how you feel. I remember once (months and months ago) following another thread with great interest, carefully reading its entirety twice, despite the growing nausea I felt - literally! - at all the venom being hurled in both directions. But I felt that both sides of the argument had many good points, and it was worth putting up with the insults to get the meat of the argument.
Sorry, but if you're really interested in a subject, you'll read the thread and tolerate the garbage. It's just one of the prices of the internet.
blah blah blah hot air followed by unsound reasoning blah blah blah
Fail! You did not, once, mention Nazis. Who's the real n00b?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I could argue with you if you want. But I'm enough of a hypocrite to realize that a belligerent manner isn't always helpful, and yet remain belligerent anyway!Yeah, man. I really hated you when you first showed up.
That's funny. I would've voted MiB as the Rookie of the Year if Paizo had such a distinction. I've enjoyed the hell out of his posts.
It also helps to report the garbage. These are moderated forums, but the mods can't read every thread and every post. If you report completely mindless trash, it does get deleted.
This is absolutely true. Flag it and move on.
blah blah blah hot air followed by unsound reasoning blah blah blahFail! You did not, once, mention Nazis. Who's the real n00b?
Nazis are a myth made up by Disestablishmentarionists to keep people from the main issue of...
STFU Weak Sauce... you're re-post is fail... your gaming skills are EP1C fail. I don't even know how you game but you're doing it wrong... and you're a nazi
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blah blah blah hot air followed by unsound reasoning blah blah blahFail! You did not, once, mention Nazis. Who's the real n00b?Nazis are a myth made up by Disestablishmentarionists to keep people from the main issue of...
STFU Weak Sauce... you're re-post is fail... your gaming skills are EP1C fail. I don't even know how you game but you're doing it wrong... and you're a nazi
You forgot to mention his socialist tendencies.