Tactician + Order of the Cockatrice = Weirdness


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest

Liberty's Edge

So the teamwork feats all want you to be either adjacent to an ally who has the feat or threatening the same target with an all who has the feat. As a standard action, cavaliers can give their allies teamwork feats to make such things easier. Yay! Awesome! I love it.

Except.

The Order of the Cockatrice doesn't like helping its allies. It generally would prefer not to be adjacent to its allies, and is mechanically disadvantaged when threatening the same target as one of its allies.

So why exactly would an Order of the Cocktrice cavalier ever want either a teamwork feat or the tactician class ability?

(Sidebar: Duck and Cover is, admittedly, somewhat up their alley, since it doesn't actually help the ally at all and doesn't require either character to be anywhere near an opponent. But it's a pain in the @$$ to use with tactician since it's reactive, and so doesn't really help much. Also, it's only one feat.)


I don't think he is going to be threatening a creature all the time. I like the idea of an arrogant cavalier of the cockatrice standing behind his men scolding them and yelling at them to fight correctly.


They work fine when your party members are hiding behind you (adjacent to you but not target),
i.e. healing you, casting spells on you or the target, fighting a minion of the boss (or some other target than you are challenging), etc.
I don't see a fundamental conflict at all.


Swap Places works well for the OotC

"Get the hell out of the way, let me show you how a true warrior fights!"

Look Out isn't bad either

"What? An Ambush? I'm not letting you take all the glory!"

Precise Strike

"Get around behind him, so I can land the killing blow!"

Liberty's Edge

Ellington wrote:
I don't think he is going to be threatening a creature all the time. I like the idea of an arrogant cavalier of the cockatrice standing behind his men scolding them and yelling at them to fight correctly.

The whole point of the Cockatrice is that the cavalier does it himself rather than allowing someone else to do so.

Quandary wrote:

They work fine when your party members are hiding behind you (adjacent to you but not target),

i.e. healing you, casting spells on you or the target, fighting a minion of the boss (or some other target than you are challenging), etc.
I don't see a fundamental conflict at all.

It's not a fundamental conflict, but every tactical instinct I have says that Cocktrice cavaliers will get far, far fewer instances where they can or would want to use their tactician ability, particularly in the same combats where they want to use their challenges.

Prince That Howls wrote:

Swap Places works well for the OotC

"Get the hell out of the way, let me show you how a true warrior fights!"

It does, actually. It is probably the best choice they have for their tactician ability at the moment. Since it is also explicitly worse than the Friendly Switch feat from the already-in-print Seekers of Secrets, however, I'm leaving it out of the discussion for now, on the assumption that it's going to get rewritten before the APG actually comes out.

Prince That Howls wrote:

Look Out isn't bad either

"What? An Ambush? I'm not letting you take all the glory!"

Lookout is nigh-impossible to use with the tactician ability.

Prince That Howls wrote:

Precise Strike

"Get around behind him, so I can land the killing blow!"

If they're flanking the target, they're threatening the target, and that means you're not getting your challenge damage bonus. Not good.

Dark Archive

Shisumo wrote:
(Sidebar: Duck and Cover is, admittedly, somewhat up their alley, since it doesn't actually help the ally at all and doesn't require either character to be anywhere near an opponent. But it's a pain in the @$$ to use with tactician since it's reactive, and so doesn't really help much. Also, it's only one feat.)

Isn't 'Duck and Cover' basically just a bit upgraded 'Improved Lightning Reflexes'? If you ask me, I hope it will be rewritten or even removed from APG...

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Advanced Player's Guide Playtest / Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest / Tactician + Order of the Cockatrice = Weirdness All Messageboards
Recent threads in Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest