Using an alchemist as a villain in a recent Pathfinder session (during which the players managed to totally avoid him and set him up to be taken out by someone else -- and did it very plausibly, so I couldn't find a loophole in their reasoning or arranging to let me set up a fight between him and them instead ;)!), an odd question came up.
The question is - how loud is the alchemist's bomb when it goes off?
My contention was that it was more of a dull "whoomph" sound, more combustion than explosion, so I had a 'practice room' in the alchemist's house where he set off his bombs to experiment, train, etc.
The players, however, contended that it should be a loud, grenade-like bang going off, and thought he should have been detected earlier by the people living nearby.
Although I DM-fiated that it's a 'whoomph' sound (especially since they never fought him anyway, so who cares ;)?), it does raise an interesting question. Just how loud are the alchemist's abilities? Is the whole dungeon full of monsters going to be alerted by the sound of an alchemical bomb? With the wind right, are you going to potentially hear the bangs a couple of miles away outdoors, or are they only going to be audible from close by (and perhaps not easily identified even then)?
It seems like it might be a fairly important question in a lot of adventuring situations. Any thoughts?
My take: An alchemist's bomb is, at its baseline, as loud as a Molitov cocktail, and probably more like the loudness of a grenade or gunshot once they start getting more powerful. CERTAINLY loud enough to be comparable to a barbarian raging, a spell going off, or a monster shrieking out a death cry. And as they get higher level, their noise level rises to be about the same as other spellcasters.
In other words... an alchemist in the party should create no more or no less noise than a spellcaster who specializes in evocation spells.
James Jacobs wrote: My take: An alchemist's bomb is, at its baseline, as loud as a Molitov cocktail, and probably more like the loudness of a grenade or gunshot once they start getting more powerful. CERTAINLY loud enough to be comparable to a barbarian raging, a spell going off, or a monster shrieking out a death cry. And as they get higher level, their noise level rises to be about the same as other spellcasters.
In other words... an alchemist in the party should create no more or no less noise than a spellcaster who specializes in evocation spells.
Thanks for the clarification. In other words, there is NO possibility of surprising anyone within half a mile after a fight involving an alchemist. ;)
I bet the Concussion bomb makes a bit more noise though. My DM said that the blast could be heard from miles away...
Carnivorous_Bean wrote: James Jacobs wrote: My take: An alchemist's bomb is, at its baseline, as loud as a Molitov cocktail, and probably more like the loudness of a grenade or gunshot once they start getting more powerful. CERTAINLY loud enough to be comparable to a barbarian raging, a spell going off, or a monster shrieking out a death cry. And as they get higher level, their noise level rises to be about the same as other spellcasters.
In other words... an alchemist in the party should create no more or no less noise than a spellcaster who specializes in evocation spells.
Thanks for the clarification. In other words, there is NO possibility of surprising anyone within half a mile after a fight involving an alchemist. ;) Meh... depends on your GM. I can see that same argument made against the full-platemail wearing fighter who insists on kicking down every door in the dungeon.
The Fool wrote: I bet the Concussion bomb makes a bit more noise though. My DM said that the blast could be heard from miles away... Perhaps. But I'm pretty sure sound burst makes an awful lot of noise too. The alchemist doesn't have a lockdown on noisy tactics.
James Jacobs wrote: The Fool wrote: I bet the Concussion bomb makes a bit more noise though. My DM said that the blast could be heard from miles away... Perhaps. But I'm pretty sure sound burst makes an awful lot of noise too. The alchemist doesn't have a lockdown on noisy tactics. Oh I don't mind that at all! I love to play as a completely unhinged bomber who couldn't care less about stealth. In fact, the Rouge of the group loves me as I can easily divert the attention away from him.
James Jacobs wrote: The Fool wrote: I bet the Concussion bomb makes a bit more noise though. My DM said that the blast could be heard from miles away... Perhaps. But I'm pretty sure sound burst makes an awful lot of noise too. The alchemist doesn't have a lockdown on noisy tactics. e
True. For example, I always assumed that lightning spells made a thunderclap, and so on. Although a lot of spells -- like magic missile -- I always assumed were fairly quiet.
However, the alchemist is pretty much the only class whose main attack is inevitably going to be audible for miles under good conditions. I'm speaking from experience here -- I live in the countryside, and I've heard guns being fired by people where I know how far away they are. In quiet conditions (i.e. just about any conditions pre-internal-combustion-engine), I can easily hear rifle shots 2 to 3 miles away.
And noises like that are going to stand out in a world before engine backfires, rifles, and so on. So, since the alchemist's bombs are as loud as a gun, anything within, say, 2.5 miles is going to know that something unusual is in the area, and have a general idea of the direction, also.
I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that the alchemist is probably the least subtle class in terms of noise. If he uses his bombs, he WILL be noticed.
Seems reasonable to me, C_Bean. Some attacks just make a heck of a lot of noise. As long as DMs are consistent and upfront about the noise-level, I don't see a problem.
In my PF game, some of the PCs have muzzle loaders. I made it clear that a flintlock firing makes a rather loud bang. During one fight while the PCs were trying to cross an underground river, several volleys of lead were fired, completely ruining any chance of surprising the monsters in the caves beyond the river.
Mark Chance wrote: Seems reasonable to me, C_Bean. Some attacks just make a heck of a lot of noise. As long as DMs are consistent and upfront about the noise-level, I don't see a problem.
Yes, I agree -- never said it was unreasonable. Just that short of actual firearms, the alchemist is the only class that is inevitably extremely noisy when attacking. So that does limit him a bit more than he already is.
Carnivorous_Bean wrote: Using an alchemist as a villain in a recent Pathfinder session (during which the players managed to totally avoid him and set him up to be taken out by someone else -- and did it very plausibly, so I couldn't find a loophole in their reasoning or arranging to let me set up a fight between him and them instead ;)!), an odd question came up.
The question is - how loud is the alchemist's bomb when it goes off?
My contention was that it was more of a dull "whoomph" sound, more combustion than explosion, so I had a 'practice room' in the alchemist's house where he set off his bombs to experiment, train, etc.
The players, however, contended that it should be a loud, grenade-like bang going off, and thought he should have been detected earlier by the people living nearby.
Although I DM-fiated that it's a 'whoomph' sound (especially since they never fought him anyway, so who cares ;)?), it does raise an interesting question. Just how loud are the alchemist's abilities? Is the whole dungeon full of monsters going to be alerted by the sound of an alchemical bomb? With the wind right, are you going to potentially hear the bangs a couple of miles away outdoors, or are they only going to be audible from close by (and perhaps not easily identified even then)?
It seems like it might be a fairly important question in a lot of adventuring situations. Any thoughts?
OK, here's how i see the alchy's bombs....
In order to have an explosion you need some type of volatile reaction under pressure...it has to be contained until it breaks it's confines, resulting in an explosion. As it reads, in order for a bomb to explode, the vial has to be broken (with the exception of delay bombs). Due to there being a lack of pressure when a "bomb" explodes, i would liken it more to a molotov cocktail...alot of flames but not necessarily an explosion. I believe your description of it being a "whoomph" sound is more accurate from a pure physics standpoint.
That being said...it is a fantasy game, so /shrug
Crunch-wise, would an alchemist's bomb have a Perception DC of 0, -10, or -20?
SmiloDan wrote: Crunch-wise, would an alchemist's bomb have a Perception DC of 0, -10, or -20? -5 or -10...i wouldn't go so far as -20...i imagine it being loud, but not that loud...although the screams that accompany them are a different matter entirely.
Recent threads in Round 3: Alchemist and Inquisitor
|
Creative Director
