Bracers of Armor Question


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So I understand that Bracers of Armor don't STACK with armor, but what if you are wearing a chain shirt (+4 AC) and Bracers of Armor +8? do you get +4 from the chain Shirt, which overlaps 4 of the +8 from the Bracers, then the other +4, for a total of +8 armor bonus?


You get the higher bonus. Which in this case is +8 from the bracers. But if for some reason your bracers stop functioning (being sundered, the magic being suppressed momentarily), your chain shirt still functions! Think of a dead magic zone or an anti magic field.

Edit: Just read the post below. I will have to check if that is a change to PF that I've missed so far.

From the SRD:

Quote:
Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to Armor Class, while shields grant a shield bonus to Armor Class. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus. Similarly, the shield bonus from a shield doesn't stack with other effects that grant a shield bonus.

So... nope, only +8.


The bonus would be +12, although there's no such thing as Bracers of armour +8 in RAW.

Only magical armor bonuses don't stack. For an example, if the chainshirt was chainshirt +3, the total bonus would still be +12.
It's the same with other bonuses as well, unless stated otherwise (dodge bonus)


You use the better of the two bonuses: +4 armor bonus from the chain shirt vs. +8 for the bracers. So you get a +8 armor bonus to AC. If the chain shirt is later enchanted, let's say to +4, it will still grant an armor bonus but of higher numerical value than before. You'll need a +5 chain shirt to surpass the armor bonus of the bracers (+4 armor bonus of chain shirt, enhancement bonus applies to armor bonus so it becomes +9, which beats the bracers). As previously noted, the chain shirt might be useful if you run into many situations where dead magic zones, antimagic fields, or targeted dispel magics apply.


Jonne Karila wrote:

The bonus would be +12, although there's no such thing as Bracers of armour +8 in RAW.

Only magical armor bonuses don't stack. For an example, if the chainshirt was chainshirt +3, the total bonus would still be +12.
It's the same with other bonuses as well, unless stated otherwise (dodge bonus)

Sorry but no, armor bonuses don't stack.

Magical or not they are ftreated as the same source.
There's no such thing as enhancement or magical armor bonus. Enhancement just enhances an existing value, armor in the case of a chainshirt.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Jonne Karila wrote:

The bonus would be +12, although there's no such thing as Bracers of armour +8 in RAW.

Only magical armor bonuses don't stack. For an example, if the chainshirt was chainshirt +3, the total bonus would still be +12.
It's the same with other bonuses as well, unless stated otherwise (dodge bonus)

Double wrong. Bracers of Armor +8 do exist and cost 64,000gp

Bracers of Armor


My bad, but to my defense, I must say that in every gaming group I've played, we've separated armor bonus to physical and magical bonuses. Routine, routine... The one thing that will kill me some day =D


You could, however, make bracers of luck armor, natural armor, (un)holy armor, etc. I guess technically, you could also do shield bonus. The only one that's out of bounds (to my knowledge) is dodge bonus to ac.


Takamonk wrote:
You could, however, make bracers of luck armor, natural armor, (un)holy armor, etc. I guess technically, you could also do shield bonus. The only one that's out of bounds (to my knowledge) is dodge bonus to ac.

You could? Never saw "luck bonus to AC" or "holy bonus to armor" in a magical armor's properties before. AFAIK, all magical armors' bonuses to AC are of the "enhancement bonus" type. Enhancement bonus towards their inherent bonus to AC, in fact (not directly tied to AC, which would be bad because +2 shields and +2 plate wouldn't stack otherwise).

So... I'm curious. Which book was this in?


Louis IX wrote:
Takamonk wrote:
You could, however, make bracers of luck armor, natural armor, (un)holy armor, etc. I guess technically, you could also do shield bonus. The only one that's out of bounds (to my knowledge) is dodge bonus to ac.

You could? Never saw "luck bonus to AC" or "holy bonus to armor" in a magical armor's properties before. AFAIK, all magical armors' bonuses to AC are of the "enhancement bonus" type. Enhancement bonus towards their inherent bonus to AC, in fact (not directly tied to AC, which would be bad because +2 shields and +2 plate wouldn't stack otherwise).

So... I'm curious. Which book was this in?

It is not an official item, but it could be created. The problem is the player's AC's will be a lot higher than they should be if you allow it.


True. But, then, anything is possible. I mentioned a headache when rules start to include non-stackable but recursive bonuses (a magical armor has an "enhancement bonus" to its "armor bonus" to AC).

What's to stop abusive characters to include a holy bonus to enhance a luck bonus to enhance a dodge bonus to enhance attack? (I know it's stupid... I know ;-)

I reacted that way because this is the Rules forum, not the Housebrew one.


Louis IX wrote:

True. But, then, anything is possible. I mentioned a headache when rules start to include non-stackable but recursive bonuses (a magical armor has an "enhancement bonus" to its "armor bonus" to AC).

What's to stop abusive characters to include a holy bonus to enhance a luck bonus to enhance a dodge bonus to enhance attack? (I know it's stupid... I know ;-)

I reacted that way because this is the Rules forum, not the Housebrew one.

*sigh*

I'm not sure why people keep saying that things are not RAW just because there is not an item that exactly matches it. Sorry, but they couldn't put every possible item out. What they did do was put out sample items and give rules for creating/pricing other items.

Bracers of Lucky Defense are perfectly valid within the rules. There are precise rules for creating them.

Luck Bonus to Armor : AC Bonus Squared x 2500gp.
So :

Bracers of Lucky Defense +1 = 2500gp
Bracers of Lucky Defense +2 = 10,000gp
etc...

Same for other types of bonuses, like insight, sacred, profane, etc. It's right there in the RAW under 'Magic Item Creation'. Insight, Luck, Sacred and Profane are explicitly mentioned, but only as examples.

Yes it can be overpowering, but also bloody expensive. Especially when you try to 'stack' them all on the same item. And that is why Sunder is in the system, to keep people from putting all their eggs in one bracer.


Louis IX wrote:

True. But, then, anything is possible. I mentioned a headache when rules start to include non-stackable but recursive bonuses (a magical armor has an "enhancement bonus" to its "armor bonus" to AC).

What's to stop abusive characters to include a holy bonus to enhance a luck bonus to enhance a dodge bonus to enhance attack? (I know it's stupid... I know ;-)

I reacted that way because this is the Rules forum, not the Housebrew one.

I know. The statement was more for the OP, and Taka. I just used your post as a springboard


Cant be sure, some of the weirder armor bonuses can be found in sources like the "Book Of Vile Darkness/Book Of Exalted Deeds" D&D Sourcebooks and suchlike but these types of bonuses arent officially listed but they may originate from special materials, augment crystals, etc. I may be wrong but I know that weird bonuses can arise from certain spells if turned into magic items, for example, "Divine Favor" gives +1 Luck Bonus to attack and damage per 3 levels, there are plenty of spells between the main book and the "Spell Compendium/Players Handbook II" D&D sourcebooks some of which may offer 'expensive' but weird bonuses if so crafted as permanent magic items using the proper formula of course.


If you don't mind me hijacking the thread.

SO lets say you have Padded armor, and sense it is an armor slot, you put bracers of armor 8 effect on it, could you follow up with +5 enhancement bonuses on said armor as well? Sense the armor has been increased to and AC of 8, then you can put enhancement bonuses on said armor as well, sense it is actually armor.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

If you don't mind me hijacking the thread.

SO lets say you have Padded armor, and sense it is an armor slot, you put bracers of armor 8 effect on it, could you follow up with +5 enhancement bonuses on said armor as well? Sense the armor has been increased to and AC of 8, then you can put enhancement bonuses on said armor as well, sense it is actually armor.

It would be more expensive than actual armor with no additional benefit.


Princess Of Canada wrote:


Cant be sure, some of the weirder armor bonuses can be found in sources like the "Book Of Vile Darkness/Book Of Exalted Deeds" D&D Sourcebooks and suchlike but these types of bonuses arent officially listed but they may originate from special materials, augment crystals, etc. I may be wrong but I know that weird bonuses can arise from certain spells if turned into magic items, for example, "Divine Favor" gives +1 Luck Bonus to attack and damage per 3 levels, there are plenty of spells between the main book and the "Spell Compendium/Players Handbook II" D&D sourcebooks some of which may offer 'expensive' but weird bonuses if so crafted as permanent magic items using the proper formula of course.

Can't be sure of what?


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

If you don't mind me hijacking the thread.

SO lets say you have Padded armor, and sense it is an armor slot, you put bracers of armor 8 effect on it, could you follow up with +5 enhancement bonuses on said armor as well? Sense the armor has been increased to and AC of 8, then you can put enhancement bonuses on said armor as well, sense it is actually armor.

Actually, you would have an item with two viable AC bonuses...

+6 Padded Armor with a +8 force based armor bonus. Which in the end would be a waste of GP, as the "+5 enhancement bonus" can not be added to the force based effect of it's AC. Only armor Special Abilities may be added to the force based armor; not the enhancement qualities.

So you would be out 25k for the +5 enhancement, in addition to the extra 32k needed to apply the function of Bracers of Armor +8 to your padded armor, due to the 1.5 multiplyer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pathos wrote:


+6 Padded Armor with a +8 force based armor bonus. Which in the end would be a waste of GP, as the "+5 enhancement bonus" can not be added to the force based effect of it's AC. Only armor Special Abilities may be added to the force based armor; not the enhancement qualities.

In this case the bonus is still an armor bonus so only the highest would apply. The only difference this would make that the person would be getting a +8 armor bonus against incorporeal attacks which would bypass normal armor.

This is no more different than wearing chain mail on top of leather only the higher bonus applies.

I did create once Bracers of Deflection (yay first edition name) which were bracers that gave a deflection bonus to AC designed to stack with a mage armor spell. essentially the same function as a ring of protection (which would not stack with this item)


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

If you don't mind me hijacking the thread.

SO lets say you have Padded armor, and sense it is an armor slot, you put bracers of armor 8 effect on it, could you follow up with +5 enhancement bonuses on said armor as well? Sense the armor has been increased to and AC of 8, then you can put enhancement bonuses on said armor as well, sense it is actually armor.

If you want to go such lengths, better to put it on a normal tunic at least you will keep unlimited dex bonus and no arcane failure.

Still the ways you can enchant it are quite limited still, + 8 armor bonus max, less if you add special enchantments on it.


LazarX wrote:

In this case the bonus is still an armor bonus so only the highest would apply. The only difference this would make that the person would be getting a +8 armor bonus against incorporeal attacks which would bypass normal armor.

This is no more different than wearing chain mail on top of leather only the higher bonus applies.

I did create once Bracers of Deflection (yay first edition name) which were bracers that gave a deflection bonus to AC designed to stack with a mage armor spell. essentially the same function as a ring of protection (which would not stack with this item)

Quite true on the highest bonus issue. It however, would be a very expensive proposition though.


However, a friend in my game group raised the question, that if he had say his armor enchanted to +1 and had bracers of armor +8 they would stack, because the +1 is an ENHANCEMENT Bonus, which according to the Pathfinder Rule Book :

"Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses)."

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there.


Michael Wadden wrote:

However, a friend in my game group raised the question, that if he had say his armor enchanted to +1 and had bracers of armor +8 they would stack, because the +1 is an ENHANCEMENT Bonus, which according to the Pathfinder Rule Book :

"Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses)."

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in there.

There is no pure enhancement bonus. The enhancement bonus is just an add on that increases the value of the actual armor or shield bonus. This is supported by the fact that the enhancement bonus is always included as part of the armor or shield bonus and not tracked separately. If it were its own bonus the enhancement bonus from armor and shields would not stack, and the character would suffer for it in the end.


Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.


It specifically says under the description of bracers of armor that they don't stack with ordinary armor (that is 'ordinary' as in normal types of armor not non-magical armor).

The only common bonuses that ever stack in Pathfinder are untyped bonuses and Dodge bonuses (as it was back in 3.5).


Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.

(bolded pertinent part)

I think that pretty much sums it up, somewhat, as the bracers of armor can contain the "armor special abilities" without the need to have an enhancement bonus first.


Pathos wrote:
Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.

(bolded pertinent part)

I think that pretty much sums it up, somewhat, as the bracers of armor can contain the "armor special abilities" without the need to have an enhancement bonus first.

Actually, that's incorrect. "Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability." Direct quote from page 505 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook


Phil. L wrote:
Actually, that's incorrect. "Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability." Direct quote from page 505 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook

That is true... Bracers of Armor must have a +1 ARMOR bonus. Which is where they start.

Magical armor though requires a +1 ENHACEMENT bonus before they can have the special abilities added. which the Bracers of armor do not need.


Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.

There is no such thing as an "enhancement" bonus to AC. If you are arguing for possible house rules, that is a different thing altogether though.


wraithstrike wrote:
Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.
There is no such thing as an "enhancement" bonus to AC. If you are arguing for possible house rules, that is a different thing altogether though.

Sorry Wraithstrike, you are incorrect in the above statement. Enchanted armor has an 'enhancement' bonus to it's AC.

PRD wrote:


Magic Item Gold Piece Value
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
Effect____________________ | Base Price________ | Example
Ability bonus (enhancement)_ | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | Belt of incredible dexterity +2
Armor bonus (enhancement) | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | +1 chainmail

Enchantments to armor are 'Enhancement Bonuses', as are boosts to abilities. Enhancement is a specific type of bonus within the game.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

MDT,
So you're saying a PC with a +1 shield and a +2 Chain shirt wouldn't get +3 to their AC as enchancement bonuses are not listed as stacking with each other? If they are a separate type of bonus, that's the only way you could rule per RAW.


Paul Watson wrote:

MDT,

So you're saying a PC with a +1 shield and a +2 Chain shirt wouldn't get +3 to their AC as enchancement bonuses are not listed as stacking with each other? If they are a separate type of bonus, that's the only way you could rule per RAW.

Not quite. Enhancement is a wierd bonus and doesn't follow the normal rules for stacking. Enhancement stacks with the base bonus type it is an enhancement to.

For example, an Enhancement Bonus to AC is an enhancement to the ARMOR bonus of the armor it's on. So, for example, if you were wearing a +2 Leather and a +1 Chainmail stacked over each other, you'd have +5 Armor Bonus total, no matter which one you picked as the armor. The reason being that the Leather Armor's Armor Bonus is the one being enhanced by the +2 on it, making it Armor Bonus (3 Inherent (to armor) + 2 Enhancement) = 5 while the chainmail's Armor Bonus is (4 inherent (to armor) and +1 Enhancement) = 5.

I really honestly dislike the way they did Enhancement. It is a type of bonus, but it's not an overall bonus, it's a bonus to a bonus. It's sort of the odd duck out with bonuses, instead of boosting the character, it boosts a boost to the character. Which is why these discussions always come up about bracers of armor vs enhancements etc. Because a bracers of Armor is an ARMOR BONUS item, it's very arguable that you should be able to put an Enhancement Bonus on them, because Enhancement Bonus's to AC enhance the Armor Bonus of armor. There's nothing in the RAW that says you can't enhance Bracers of Armor. There's also nothing in the RAW that says you can, it's a judgement call. Either way it's not unbalancing too much (Bracers of Armor max out at +8, Enhancement at +10 with max +5 used for AC, which would be 13 + 5 armor special ability levels, about the same as full plate, but much more expensive as a premium for no armor penalty or weight).


enhancement bonus in this case is a bonus on the armor not the pc, as such it enhances the original items armor bonus.

bracers of armor are a basic armor bonus, it doesn't really matter if it has an enhancement bonus or not, you can treat it as an enhancement bonus on a + 0 armor bonus.


Remco Sommeling wrote:

enhancement bonus in this case is a bonus on the armor not the pc, as such it enhances the original items armor bonus.

bracers of armor are a basic armor bonus, it doesn't really matter if it has an enhancement bonus or not, you can treat it as an enhancement bonus on a + 0 armor bonus.

And that's the rub with Enhancement bonuses and Bracers of Armor. If they were 'Enhancement Bonuses' to armor, then there wouldn't be any arguments. But, bracers of armor provide 'armor bonus' per rules.

prd wrote:


Bracers of Armor
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

Strictly speaking, bracers of armor +3 and Leather Armor both supply the same thing, a +3 armor bonus. +1 Leather provides an armor bonus of +4 (+3 Armor Bonus + 1 Enhancement to Armor Bonus). So, strictly per RAW, you should be able to theoretically have +1 Bracers of Armor +3, which would be the same (+3 Armor Bonus and +1 Enhancement Bonus). Of course, it's a REALLY expensive way of building armor. +1 Leather Armor costs 1,160gp. +1 Bracers of Armor +3 would cost 10,000gp (9,000 for the Bracers and 1,000 for the +1). Of course, you could reverse it around and make it +3 Bracers of Armor +1 for the same price. Either way, it costs 10,000gp.

Personally, I don't think that's all that unbalanced, but, it always causes a riot storm if you mention it, because of the perception that this is a cheap way of getting Bracers of Armor +4 for 10,000gp instead of paying 16,000gp. If you compare it to real enchanted armor though, you always pay through the nose for 'enchanted' bracers of armor. So I don't consider it a problem personally. And you're getting a real benefit for that huge gold outlay, no armor check or weight issues.


And don't foret the built in Ghost Touch effect as it is a force effect.


mdt wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.
There is no such thing as an "enhancement" bonus to AC. If you are arguing for possible house rules, that is a different thing altogether though.

Sorry Wraithstrike, you are incorrect in the above statement. Enchanted armor has an 'enhancement' bonus to it's AC.

PRD wrote:


Magic Item Gold Piece Value
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
Effect____________________ | Base Price________ | Example
Ability bonus (enhancement)_ | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | Belt of incredible dexterity +2
Armor bonus (enhancement) | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | +1 chainmail

Enchantments to armor are 'Enhancement Bonuses', as are boosts to abilities. Enhancement is a specific type of bonus within the game.

Are you saying you can have an enhancement bonus that is not part of an armor bonus or shield bonus?

Show me one item with only an enhancement bonus to AC.

Does the enhancement bonus apply to flat-footed AC and touch AC? I would like references also.


mdt wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Lael Treventhius wrote:
Because bracers are a wondourous item, then they are technically magic, so you easily could aurgue they are both an armor and enchatment bonus at the same time. But I think its supposed to be a simple case, of you get whatever total is better from the bracers or body armor you are wearing, nothing combined.
There is no such thing as an "enhancement" bonus to AC. If you are arguing for possible house rules, that is a different thing altogether though.

Sorry Wraithstrike, you are incorrect in the above statement. Enchanted armor has an 'enhancement' bonus to it's AC.

PRD wrote:


Magic Item Gold Piece Value
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values
Effect____________________ | Base Price________ | Example
Ability bonus (enhancement)_ | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | Belt of incredible dexterity +2
Armor bonus (enhancement) | Bonus^2 x 1,000 gp | +1 chainmail

Enchantments to armor are 'Enhancement Bonuses', as are boosts to abilities. Enhancement is a specific type of bonus within the game.

The enchancement bonus is not its own bonus. It is a magical bonus to an armor or shield bonus. I was saying the enhancement bonus can not stand on its own. I do apologize if that was not clear. That fact that it is only a boost to another ability lends to that statement.


wraithstrike wrote:


The enchancement bonus is not its own bonus. It is a magical bonus to an armor or shield bonus. I was saying the enhancement bonus can not stand on its own. I do apologize if that was not clear. That fact that it is only a boost to another ability lends to that statement.

Ok, then we're saying the same thing. Just the way you originally put it, that there was no such thing as an enhancement bonus, didn't ring true. Yes, it's a subtype of bonus, in that it enhances another type of bonus. That's why I don't really like it. Honestly, per RAW, I can't see why you couldn't have an 'enhancement' bonus to ANY type of base bonus, but that way lies madness (Can you imagine an 'enhancement' bonus to your Luck Bonus to AC?).


So you are saying that there is no way to put enhancement bonuses on bracers of armor effect.


I'm in agreement with Ineptus, I think the rules allow for one to build certain enhancements into Bracers of Armor. Exactly what those enhancements are Might be issue, but the basic concept of paying 'extra' (more than the standard cost) to 'add on' additional properties onto a standard item is a time-honored concept in the 3.0/3.5 game. I think the Pathfinder rules support it.


yes the pathfinder rules support it, what it basically says is : you have + 0 bracers of armor and you can put up to + 8 enhancements on it, you need at least + 1 armor enhancement before you can put fancy stuff on.

it's like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if they are armor or enhancements bonuses they only stack with themselves anyway.


Remco Sommeling wrote:

yes the pathfinder rules support it, what it basically says is : you have + 0 bracers of armor and you can put up to + 8 enhancements on it, you need at least + 1 armor enhancement before you can put fancy stuff on.

it's like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if they are armor or enhancements bonuses they only stack with themselves anyway.

Technically armor can get +10 enhancement bonus to armor. Bracers of Armor grant Armor type bonus, to technically they stack, so you could get and AC of 13, with +5 enhancement bonus of other stuff. The problem is the wording on what is required to allow enhancement bonuses on armor. Thus why the idea of applying the bracers of armor effect to armor.

P.S. Baring ruling from Paizo, I don't see anything in the PATHFINDER rules that do not allow you to put enhancement bonuses on bracers of armor. Bracers of Armor grant an armor type bonus, which can have enhancement bonuses on them sense they are a type of armor.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Remco Sommeling wrote:

yes the pathfinder rules support it, what it basically says is : you have + 0 bracers of armor and you can put up to + 8 enhancements on it, you need at least + 1 armor enhancement before you can put fancy stuff on.

it's like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if they are armor or enhancements bonuses they only stack with themselves anyway.

Technically armor can get +10 enhancement bonus to armor. Bracers of Armor grant Armor type bonus, to techically they stack, so you could get and AC of 13, with +5 enhancement bonus of other stuff. The problem is the wording on what is required to allow enhancement bonuses on armor. Thus why the idea of applying the bracers of armor effect to armor.

If my understanding of what you are stating is correct your reading of the rules is very skewed. applying "bracers of armor effect" to armor would be creating a wonderous item in a non-standard slot and would cost 50% more than normal and another 50% more for adding it to a magic item with a different ability (another example would be +1 longsword of physical might +2 str +2 dex) your enhancement bonus which caps at +5 armor and +5 worth of special abilities, not +10armor , would enhance the armor, not the bracers of armor via "craft magical arms and armor", not craft wonderous items. It would be a very expensive way to basically get ghosttouch added to your armor. It would however free up your bracers slot if you wanted bracers of armor and another item for the same slot.

Much more reasonable would be having your +5 armor and bracers of armor(not for armor bonuses, but perhaps heavy fortification, etc.) or the other way around possibly bracers of armor +8 for AC with +1 light leather armor of fortification, etc.

Liberty's Edge

Bracers of Armor are providing a force effect. There is no "armor" to enhance with the +1.


grasshopper_ea wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Remco Sommeling wrote:

yes the pathfinder rules support it, what it basically says is : you have + 0 bracers of armor and you can put up to + 8 enhancements on it, you need at least + 1 armor enhancement before you can put fancy stuff on.

it's like I said earlier, it doesn't matter if they are armor or enhancements bonuses they only stack with themselves anyway.

Technically armor can get +10 enhancement bonus to armor. Bracers of Armor grant Armor type bonus, to techically they stack, so you could get and AC of 13, with +5 enhancement bonus of other stuff. The problem is the wording on what is required to allow enhancement bonuses on armor. Thus why the idea of applying the bracers of armor effect to armor.

If my understanding of what you are stating is correct your reading of the rules is very skewed. applying "bracers of armor effect" to armor would be creating a wonderous item in a non-standard slot and would cost 50% more than normal and another 50% more for adding it to a magic item with a different ability (another example would be longsword of physical might +2 str +2 dex) your enhancement bonus which caps at +5 armor and +5 worth of special abilities, not +10armor , would enhance the armor, not the bracers of armor via "craft magical arms and armor", not craft wonderous items. It would be a very expensive way to basically get ghosttouch added to your armor. It would however free up your bracers slot if you wanted bracers of armor and another item for the same slot.

Much more reasonable would be having your +5 armor and bracers of armor(not for armor bonuses, but perhaps heavy fortification, etc.) or the other way around possibly bracers of armor +8 for AC with +1 light leather armor of fortification, etc.

Rules seem to have changed a little from 3.5. As I stated above.

Also, in 3.5 you could make something that took up the armor slot with the bracers of armor ability; sense that slot was stated to be proper for an ARMOR type bonus appropriate slot (which what bracers of armor give); as stated in the magic item compendium.

P.S. AXE my question, I just realized further changes in the rules to the bracers. Question answered.

Thanks


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Rules seem to have changed a little from 3.5. As I stated above.

Also, in 3.5 you could make something that took up the armor slot with the bracers of armor ability; sense that slot was stated to...

I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying it's going to be very expensive with not that great of a return. Having that 8 armor bonus against touch attack from nasty incorporeal undead on that +5 full plate is useful, but adding ghost touch would give you +14 vs that touch for a lot cheaper than adding a non-standard item and give you better results.


grasshopper_ea wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Rules seem to have changed a little from 3.5. As I stated above.

Also, in 3.5 you could make something that took up the armor slot with the bracers of armor ability; sense that slot was stated to...

I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying it's going to be very expensive with not that great of a return. Having that 8 armor bonus against touch attack from nasty incorporeal undead on that +5 full plate is useful, but adding ghost touch would give you +14 vs that touch for a lot cheaper than adding a non-standard item and give you better results.

Max dex is also an issue, but that is a moot point at the moment with the new rules.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Max dex is also an issue, but that is a moot point at the moment with the new rules.

Yep on High dex characters I would suggest bracers of armor +8 when they become affordable and +1 light leather of heavy fortification or whatever you like.


Shar Tahl wrote:
Bracers of Armor are providing a force effect. There is no "armor" to enhance with the +1.

According to the Arms and Equipment Guide, page 130, you could add affects to to the bracers of armor. The wording for the bracers of armor has not changed since then so the rules should also be the same.


you can add effects, the bracers of armor description specifically state it. you can add some nice effects on it really and wear armor besides though it would be redundant for the armor bonus itself.

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