[Super Genius] The Genius Guide to the Death Mage


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The death mage is a new core class, designed for use with the Pathfinder RPG. It is an arcane spellcasting class that focuses on powers drawn from the dead, dying, and undead. Death mages are not just specialist wizards or variant sorcerers, but an entirely new kind
of arcane spellcaster with different types of powers and a unique spell list. A death mage is designed to allow characters to draw deeply on the iconic forces of death, spirit and shadow, without requiring them be evil or focus on undead (though both are options).

More than just necromancy, the powers accessed by death mages include many things associated with death including the fog of the graveyard, the dread all living things feel at the decaying remains of their own kind, shadow, the spirit realm, and the decay that sets in when life is gone. These are secrets held by spirits of the departed, which only death mages can hear.

Check it out here: http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8d07


So do you guys have like a tap on my email/phone searching for products i'd like to see? A player in my game wants to play a dread necromancer, but wanted some additional flexibility in the class (in an urban campaign its not normally acceptable to have an undead army shambling behind you). This may prove a useful alternative.

I have a couple questions.

Under the reaper mage pale road, both reap and protection from undead are listed as 3+intelligence modifier times per day. All the other powers are based on charisma. Is this by design?

The second is that Knowledge religion is absent from their skill list. It seems to me very odd that given the number of knowledge skills they have, and the fact that they have a focus on dead and undeath, that the knowledge associated with undead would be absent. I would simply add it in for my game, but was just curious if it was by design or an error.

Scarab Sages

Kolokotroni wrote:
So do you guys have like a tap on my email/phone searching for products i'd like to see?

Yes. It's been very helpful.

Kolokotroni wrote:
Under the reaper mage pale road, both reap and protection from undead are listed as 3+intelligence modifier times per day. All the other powers are based on charisma. Is this by design?

No, that one is an oversight from an earlier design draft. It will be corrected. The powers should be based on Charisma.

Kolokotroni wrote:
The second is that Knowledge religion is absent from their skill list. It seems to me very odd that given the number of knowledge skills they have, and the fact that they have a focus on dead and undeath, that the knowledge associated with undead would be absent. I would simply add it in for my game, but was just curious if it was by design or an error.

That one is by design. Knowledge religion covers a lot more than just undead, and we didn't want the death mage stealing the cleric's thunder, especially at low levels (when information sources are rarer). To address your exact concern, death mages receive secrets of the dead at 5th level.

I suppose we should be more explicit in stating it counts for undead knowledge checks, but what undead isn't also dead person or creatre? Still, this will also be revised for clarity.


Kolokotroni wrote:
The second is that Knowledge religion is absent from their skill list. It seems to me very odd that given the number of knowledge skills they have, and the fact that they have a focus on dead and undeath, that the knowledge associated with undead would be absent. I would simply add it in for my game, but was just curious if it was by design or an error.

That one is by design. Knowledge religion covers a lot more than just undead, and we didn't want the death mage stealing the cleric's thunder, especially at low levels (when information sources are rarer). To address your exact concern, death mages receive secrets of the dead at 5th level.

I suppose we should be more explicit in stating it counts for undead knowledge checks, but what undead isn't also dead person or creatre? Still, this will also be revised for clarity.

Would an undead neccessarily be a dead person? I would have read that to mean the knowledge check against the spirit that once inhabited the body, and not the shambling zombie it has now become.

Though if it did apply to undead, then if you put ranks into know religion you would quickly have a significant knowledge check for undead, class skill or not. Thank you for the clarification. I guess i still have not shaken the 3.5 anti non-class skill stigma

Scarab Sages

We're making the undead element of secrets of the grave explicit, along with a few other fixes, in an updated version which also goes out for free to everyone who's already bought it.


Alright, let me start by saying I love the fluff, and I love the art. It's a very nice PDF, and I approve.

That said, there are some mechanical problems - things that don't really seem to work, that need a bit of rewriting or tightening up. These are things that don't work as written, or don't seem to work as intended. I'm not bringing up anything of questionable theme or balance, here, I'll save that for a later post, though I guess I'll mention copy-editing issue that jump out at me here as well.

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1) Page 4, Army of the Dead (Corpse Mage level 8 ability): What kinds of skeletons or zombies can you control? Leadership grants control of a certain number of followers of particular levels, but skeletons and zombies cannot have levels. Do you use their hit dice instead? If so, do you go by the original creature's hit dice, or the resulting undead's hit dice - since zombies get extra hit dice for their size? Can a follower be any skeleton or zombie with that number of hit dice? There seems like a pretty big gap between the skeleton of a dire wolf and the skeleton of an advanced, half dragon pyrohydra, even though they both have the same hit dice. The cohort has an intelligence score, but what is it? Is it 5? Is it 10? Do you roll for it? If the cohort is intelligent, can it have class levels?

Simply put, this ability is insufficiently explained to be usable in an actual game. Leadership works off of levels, and skeletons and zombies are templates. They simply do not work together without further explanation.

2) Page 5 Terrible Visage (Tomb Mage Power): "A foe that is shaken as a result of this ability becomes immune to it for 24 hours after their shaken condition ends." This seems to be intended to prevent the Death Mage from affecting the same creature more then once with this ability, but if that is the case it doesn't work as intended. After the target fails the save they are shaken. On the next round, they are still shaken, so they aren't immune to the ability yet, so they can be affected again, bringing them up to frightened for one minute.

A one minute duration frighten state is pretty much fight over. Even if they pass the second save, they're still shaken, so they still aren't immune, so they still need to save on the next round or jump to frightened.

Depending on how you read fear affects as working, a frightened target may still be shaken. The affect hasn't ended, it's just been superseded, in which event they still aren't immune to the ability, so another failed save will push them up to panicked for 1 minute.

Now this is a strong ability as written, and if you intend it to be that strong, so be it. If, however, you intended to prevent this ability from stacking on itself to push targets up to frightened or even panicked, then you'll want to change the wording to read 'a creature that fails their save against this ability cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours' or something closer to that, rather then having the immunity kick in only after the effect wears off.

3) Page 6 Summon Shadow (Shadow Mage ability): This should probably have a note that the shadows summoned do not create spawn from creatures they kill, in order to avoid a lot of hassle and to be consistent with other summoned creatures being unable to summon additional creatures themselves.

4) Page 7, not a mechanics issue, but a minor copy editing one: "Fetishes are personal magic items, small objects weighting 2 lbs. decorated with trophies taken from the corpses of fallen opponents. A fetish is a small object weighing about 2 lbs." - You can delete the italicized sentence, since you just said that.

5) Page 7, another petty copy-editing complaint, but the second paragraph in the middle column is way too long, you totally need a paragraph break or two in there to make it more readable. As a side note, the attunement process described in this paragraph is awesome and makes me want to play a Death Mage all on its own.

6) Page 7, 'healing spirits'. The uses of this ability are based on Wisdom, while almost all other Death Mage abilities are based on Charisma. Is this intentional?

7) Page 7-8, 'Imbue Fetish'. You do not specify that the fetish power granted needs to be one that your fetish actually has, only that you cannot use the same power while it was granted. As written, it not only allows you but encourages you to grant a power you don't actually have.

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Eh, that's the extent of things I would consider 'problems', and its a pretty short list, shorter then I feared it would be after my first glance through. I'll post again later with some comments on fluff and flavor aspects. Things like 'fetishes = awesome, Unbreathing creatures = WTF?, why Cha-based, when Wis-based seems so much more fitting?' and such.

As for the Know: religion issue, there really is no reason for this class not to have it. That's the skill for knowledge of death gods, afterlives, funeral practices, and undead creatures. Know:Religion is this class. It's certainly more on theme then Know: Geography or Know: the Planes.

A cleric's thunder isn't in this fluff skill, it's in their spells, channeling (good job resisting the temptation to give negative channeling to death mages), and domains. Giving Death Mage's the ability to take death or repose domains does more to steal thunder from clerics then not giving them the Know:Religion skill would, a skill already shared with paladins, monks, wizards, bards, oracles, and undead bloodline sorcerers.

Scarab Sages

Malisteen wrote:

Alright, let me start by saying I love the fluff, and I love the art. It's a very nice PDF, and I approve.

That said, there are some mechanical problems - things that don't really seem to work, that need a bit of rewriting or tightening up.

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I'm very pleased to hear you approve of the pdf. Thanks! I also see you only ended up with 4 actual game issues with the product (other than your thoughts on Knowledge (religion) which I already addressed on being handled by Secrets of the Dead in the previosu thread). For a 3pp being told a product is harder to convert than a previous edition of the game is a little disconcerting, being told there are 4 specific things a customer feels are a bit off is very different. (The copy editing points are appreciated, and we'll look at them for our next revision, but obviously they don't make the class unuseable in a game so I won't take any more time on them here.)

For Army of the Dead, I think you're making the ability too complex in an effort to get more out of it. It works -because- skeletons and zombies are templates. First, create followers and a cohort as you would with anyone who takes the Leadership feat. (Most of your questions have now been answered, including what is your cohorts Intelligence – it's whatever it would be if it was any other cohort – and what kind of skeletons and zombies can your followers be – the skeletons and zombies of any follower allowed). Now, apply the templates as listed in the Beastiary. That tells you everything you need to know.

What kind of followers can you have? Any the GM would allow anyone with the Leadership feat. Then, add the template. Can the cohort have class levels? Sure, up to its cohort level, but it's gonna lose a lot of hit dice.

Terrible Visage was playtested, and works as intended, as written. However, it is not an inherent property of shaken than a shaken target that is shaken again is frightened. Look at the Pathfinder core rules, page 568. Shaken states it is a lesser state of fear than frightened or panicked, but does NOT state a shaken target that is again shaken becomes frightened. (The rules for fatigue and exhausted have that kind of rider, shkane does not). Some fear powers add that rider, but it's not a core part of the condition, as defined in the PFRPG.

Summon shadow was also playtested. The playtest experience suggested it's not unbalancing. I see your point, and it might be a good idea to add it, as a general rule, for summoned creatures.

Since shadows are only CR 3 (and thus can be encountered by 3rd level parties), and a 3rd level necromancer can control one for days with command undead, it's not as if we are introducing the newest or lowest-level way a party could reasonable end up with a shadow.

Also, the shadow rarely actually Strength-drained foes to death in playtest. It's CR 3, facing CR 8 or higher foes, and even if it hits (which, being a touch attack, it often did despite being underpowered), it rarely lived long enough to do so more than once. When foes lacked any magic attack (rarer and rarer as the levels advance, btu it happens), the incorporeal shadowe would occasionally frain down a foe, but that created its own problems.

If the death mage's shadow does kill a creature that becomes a shadow... the death mage doesn't control it. His summoned shadow which isn't sticking around for long is. Once the death mage's shadows are gone, the created shadow must be dealt with, and is just as likely to turn on the party.

These factors resulted in the ability being a fun and useful defining power for the shadow mage, but not unworkable or unbalanced. I could see a GM making your suggested change (which is easily implemented), but we saw no sign the power as written doesn't work.

With imbue fetish, you are right we only intend the ability you have to be granted to an ally. The power does state you imbue a power "from your fetish," which everyone we've given the class to has taken to mean one of the powers that is chosen as a result of "Each fetish contains a collection of powers of the death mage's choosing (see Fetish Powers below). When a death magefirst takes this bond, she fills her fetish with two powers, then one additional power every two full levels (5th, 7th, 9th, and so on to a total of 10 fetish powers at 19th level).

So rather than saying it's a power your fetish has (your example), we say it's a power from your fetish. There's no suggestion anywhere there are powers that come from a fetish unless you have selected them. I don't see why that's not clear, but if other people are misreading that I hope they'll chime in here so we can see about a broader clarification.

While you didn't seem to think it was a balance or playability issue, you also asked about healing spirits being Wisdom based. This is intentional. Not all a class' abilities may be driven by the same ability (see clerics and channel energy), and the power is supposed to work as written.


Warning, incoming text wall. Sorry. If it's any consolation, I wouldn't have written so much if I didn't like the class overall. :P

And before I start, thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments. That was totally cool of you. :)

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
I'm very pleased to hear you approve of the pdf. Thanks! I also see you only ended up with 4 actual game issues with the product (other than your thoughts on Knowledge (religion) which I already addressed on being handled by Secrets of the Dead in the previosu thread). For a 3pp being told a product is harder to convert than a previous edition of the game is a little disconcerting, being told there are 4 specific things a customer feels are a bit off is very different.

I apologize - I was both unfair and unclear in my prior criticism. unfair in that I had not read the entirety of the rules and the few bits I read were the ones I had issues with. Unclear in that I was not referring to 3.5 classes in general, but rather to the Dread Necromancer in particular - the similarly themed and popular class from 3.5 which requires very little updating to be Pathfinder-playable when compared to most other 3.5 classes. Fix the skills, replace the rebuke mechanics with the PF version, and you're good to go. You could update some of the spells, too... or not. There's enough still in core that the class still works. Anyway,

Quote:
(The copy editing points are appreciated, and we'll look at them for our next revision, but obviously they don't make the class unuseable in a game so I won't take any more time on them here.)

No problem, I only mentioned them because I was going through the PDF line by line while I was posting.

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For Army of the Dead, I think you're making the ability too complex in an effort to get more out of it.

So... it creates an obnoxiously large number of ineffectual 1hd humanoid skeletons and zombies? Because Leadership normally only lets you make cohorts and followers with normal races and classes.... In that case, the ability may 'work', but is an awful lot of book keeping for little to no adventuring function. A character with normal leadership, in a campaign where the DM allows leadership at all, at least has an adventuring-worthy cohort. This ability gives you a 1hd skeleton or 2hd zombie cohort, and your leadership score for cohorts means nothing, since regardless of how many levels the cohort had before applying the skeleton or zombie template, they still are reduced back to their 0 racial hit dice. This is all the book keeping and clutter of leadership without any of the functionality, unless the DM goes out of his way to house rule you some non-standard cohorts and followers.

In general, this ability seems to be a lot more hassle and book keeping then It's worth. It could have been something simpler - say reduced animate dead component costs, or a slightly improved hit die pool, or even the ability to make undead you create match your own alignment... Anyway, it seems like there are a lot of similarly themed abilities that would have been more game-play functional then a couple hundred 1-2 HD undead following the character around, including on very special 1-2HD undead creature with an int score. Such abilities would also be less work and take less space to write out.

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However, it is not an inherent property of shaken than a shaken target that is shaken again is frightened.

From the PRD Glossary - I don't have access to my PDF at the moment, but it is in there too, and if you'd like I can look up the page later: "Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead."

It is incredibly unclear whether the same fear-causing effect is cumulative with itself, since it isn't a 'penalty' nor is it 'stacking' by the definitions that govern such, and this has already caused some long debates over intimidate and other similar abilities. If you don't intend for this ability to be cumulative with itself, you should probably directly stipulate that (or re-write the immunity clause slightly) if you ever update the PDF in the future.

If you don't intend for the ability to be cumulative with other fear effects, then you definitely need to stipulate that because as the rules currently stand that wouldn't even be in question.

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Summon shadow was also playtested. The playtest experience suggested it's not unbalancing. I see your point, and it might be a good idea to add it, as a general rule, for summoned creatures.

If anything, precedent supports the ability as it currently is, since the Darkness cleric domain grants the same ability, more or less, and doesn't stipulate anything about spawning. I still think it's something worth considering changing, and worth thinking about for future mechanics that allow the summoning of any creature with the ability to create spawn. It's much more game play friendly if you remove the spawning bit.

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Since shadows are only CR 3 (and thus can be encountered by 3rd level parties), and a 3rd level necromancer can control one for days with command undead, it's not as if we are introducing the newest or lowest-level way a party could reasonable end up with a shadow.

Yes, but the DM can always opt not to use shadows, or wights, or wraiths, if they know the PCs possess the ability to control them.

And I was commenting less on the balance level, and less about fear of chain command spawning armies (since the current 'Command Undead' abilities, either feat or spell, are really unreliable means of controlling such), and more on the annoyance value level of summoning monsters to help in a fight, and being left with more monsters that you then have to fight afterwords as a result. Or worse, being left with more monsters that might just phase through the floor and head off to attack innocents. Like I said, it's not game-play friendly, and seems inclined to cause situations where the rest of the PC's party are yelling at them whenever they use what was supposed to be a cool and fun ability.

Then again, that may just be a traumatized and ostracized and finally outright booted from the party old Master of Shrouds speaking.

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stuff about granting fetish powers

It seemed fairly clear to me what was intended, but I could see it causing questions, or giving rules-lawyers argument fodder, which is why I mentioned it at all. I only nit-pick because I care. ;)

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While you didn't seem to think it was a balance or playability issue, you also asked about healing spirits being Wisdom based. This is intentional. Not all a class' abilities may be driven by the same ability

I know, I only mention it because as, from what I could remember, it was the only wisdom based ability of the class, which seemed a little odd. That, and in prior posts someone brought up some abilities that had been int based, and that you said were unintentional left-overs from prior drafts and subsequently changed. I just wanted to bring it up in case this were another example of the same thing, since I could easily imagine this class having been wisdom-based in a previous draft.

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While I'm on the subject - this isn't really a complaint, I'm just curious. Why Charisma? I mean, sure, there's plenty of justificaation. There are charisma based iconic necromancy abilities, including channel negative energy and giving orders to intelligent undead under the effect of Command Undead. I'm not saying that it's a weird choice or anything.

That said, I have to wonder what led you to rule out Wisdom? The character casts spells like a divine caster (prep spells from entire list), is directly compared to the druid in one of the more awesome bits of the fluff (side note, I love the idea of these guys as rivals and compliments to druidic orders, drawing power from death as druids draw power from life), and most specifically the Death Mage both learns and prepares spells from listening to the spirits of the dead - a process that seems to lend itself thematically to wisdom-based casting.

On a similar note, I wonder if you considered divine magic instead of arcane. Sure, there's good reason to make them arcane, their spell list and overall party role seems more arcane then divine. Again, I don't intend this as disagreement, criticism, or arguing. I'm just curious. Drawing magic by communing with external spirits seems to fit a divine concept, as does, again, that druidic comparison that I love so much (note that I may be hanging myself up on a single line far too much - mostly due to just loving the idea). Their BAB and proficiencies are more consistent with divine casters as well. That, and, most necromancy-specific base classes I can think of are arcane, and the Death Mage seems like it could have been an opportunity to go a different route.

It's not like arcane or cha-based casting don't fit this class perfectly well. They do. I was just curious to hear the designers' take on it is all.

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Unbreathing creatures. This is going to be a bit of a complaint. I don't know the development process that this subtype went through, but the end result seems a little too watered down to me, thematically. The creatures aren't undead or even dead. They aren't shadowy or spirit-like, either. They're name is silly too, since they totally do have to breath, they can just hold their breath a while, which comes of as a silly and pointless. They're basically just regular ol'e animal companions/summoned nature's allies, but with some cold resistance and can't heal well for some reason.

I'm really not sure where they're supposed to fit into the game universe, either.

I do kind of wish you had just bit the bullet and used a list of undead creatures, rather then slapping a subtype of questionable theme onto existing abilities. Other then they're physical description, there's really very little to set these guys apart, and certainly not so much that they really needed extra mechanics. You could have gotten the same results buy just giving the normal animal companion and summon natures ally options and just stipulating that the creatures summoned look decayed and undead.

If you have another product or supplement with other unbreathing creatures, then maybe that would give them more of a place, more of a reason to me, and I'd drop my complaint. If you don't have such yet, you might consider it in some future monster book (assuming you do those, I'm not fully familiar with your line yet). If, on the other hand, the unbreathing type was just a throwaway mechanic for the Death Mage only, then I have to say I'm a little let down by it.

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That said, I only harp on the unbreathing type, and specifically it's meh-ish fluff and lack of place, because the rest of the fluff for this class is so good.

Learning lore and magic from the spirits of the dead? Awesome. Comparison to druids? Awesome - though this totally could have been expanded upon. Different aspects of death, and different character 'builds' (to borrow a 4e term) that result? Awesome. Fetishes as a focus of power, that can affect more creature types as you affix the remains of more creatures to it? Double plus awesome.

Seriously, The flavor of that blows the flavor of the other abilities you could choose instead right out of the water. I mean, an emo, hard to heal animal companion that isn't undead but totally dresses like one? Class features ripped from a Cleric? Sure, they work, mechanically, and I guess options are good and all, but I myself can't help but wish you had dropped the other bits and just used the space to further expand on the cool, original, totem bit.

Of course, an actual undead companion might have earned my attention more then the unbreathing thing, but whatevs. If I really want an on-theme animal companion I'll just Animate one, myself. But not before ripping off a bit o' the corpse to add to my fetish. Did I mention I love that mechanic, yet? Anyway...

I haven't had time to really digest the spell list, but at first glance I'm pretty happy with that, too. I'd complain that the Danse Macabre spell line wastes a great spell name on an unnecessary and flavorless 'unbreathing' rehash of the Summon Nature's Ally spells, but if I did that would probably be harping on the unbreathing thing to an unnecessary degree. I don't hate the unbreathing subtype. It just left me flat, where the rest of the fluff and most of the mechanics in this PDF were great. It's a by comparison, thing.

I certainly don't dislike them as much as 'deathless' positive energy undead from 3.5. Now those were lame and unnecessary. Whoo.


Edit: For a link to the PRD glossary with the 'becoming more fearful' thing, see the post immediately below this one. Thanks, Urizen.


Malisteen wrote:

Pathfinder Glossary

Link for the PRD glossary with the 'becoming more fearful' thing.

Fixed.

Scarab Sages

Urizen wrote:
Malisteen wrote:

Pathfinder Glossary

Link for the PRD glossary with the 'becoming more fearful' thing.

Fixed.

Fair enough. It's also covered in the appendices that talks about special abilities. It is NOT covered in the condition summary, which is where I check this rule for this release, and where the playtesters checked when it came up. We'll make a note that the viasage cannot make you more than shaken, even if you're already shaken.

The class is Charisma based because it's an arcane class that speaks to, and learns from, the dead. Charisma is beoth force of personality, and social prowess. The more force of personality a death mage has, the more spirits they talk to, and the more the spirits tell them. That seemed very straightforward.

The Unbreathing exists to fill a specific role, which not every campaign needs. Indeed, many may not. It is common for players to want to wrap themselves in the trappings of the undead, and for GMs to allow that only if the PC is evil. The unbreathing grants an option for a non-evil creature (including companions) to be death-themed, without being undead. They are inspired by Fritz Leiber's Newhon Ghouls of the Lankhmar stories, so perhaps my grognard roots are showing.

Danse macabre, obviously, exists for the same reasons.

Fetishes, on the other hand, I lvoe to death, but playtesting had me add other options. A non-trivial minority of playtesters indicated a desire to never deal with fetishes. The power felt too voo-doo for them, and at least one such playtester wanted a permanent death-related companion instead. I added these options for other pruchacers who decided death mages needed to have more death spells or death firepower, however cool fetishes are.

If I ever get to play a death mage PC, I am dang sure taking the fetish powers. :D

But I have to write a rules supplement to appeal to as many people as possible, even if that means including options I find less interesting. Since it takes nothign away from fetishes, and playteters requested it, it seemed worth doing.


Thanks again for responding to my comments!

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


We'll make a note that the viasage cannot make you more than shaken, even if you're already shaken.

Fair enough, though stopping the ability from stacking with itself is probably sufficient, I'm not sure you need to prevent it from stacking with any other fear-causing that might be going on.

In your defense, sticking such a significant aspect of those conditions in the glossary, instead of in the description of the conditions themselves, was a mistake on the part of the Pathfinder rulebook folks.

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Re: unbreathing. Again, giving them a more definite place in a future product would still do a lot to alleviate my complaints about them here. I would need a reason to be excited about having access to unbreathing creatures, rather then just disappointed that the designers had refused to let me use actual undead creatures. At the moment, the danse macabre spells are just less thematic version of the 3.5 summon undead spells, and the Unbreathing animal companion feels like a thematically watered down version of the Unearthed arcana specialist mage undead companion, or Dragon Compendium's Death Master undead companion.

In most campaigns I've played in, the 'elemental type equivalents for planes of death or darkness' is a monster role that undead creatures already fill. If you just wanted undeadish creatures that weren't strictly evil, stipulating that undead made or summoned by the Death Mage match the death mage's alignment would have worked. You already did that for shadows summoned by the Shadow Mage ability, after all

Note that I'm not asking for or suggesting that anything about that be changed now. Unbreathing creatures work fine. They just don't hit the theme of the rest of the class as well as... well... the rest of the class does to me. But I'm harping, and again I really don't mean to. They aren't bad in any way. There's nothing wrong with them.

I suppose if people wanted something other then totems then that's that. Even druids don't need to have animal companions, these days. I don't know. To me, there's a clear winner fluff wise, although, mechanically, it's very hard to argue with +1 spell per day per spell level

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You're never going to please all the people, all of the time. And I'm particularly difficult to please when it comes to necromancy - even my beloved Dread Necromancer has a fair bit of room for improvement, in my not so humble opinion. I mean, no class needs more HD of undead than Animate Dead already grants, that undead mastery ability is just begging to bog games down. And did they really intend negen burst to harm the user? but that's getting off topic.

I would certainly give the Death Mage a shot, if given the opportunity. Sadly, the only Pathfinder game I'm in right now is a Society game, so no 3rd party content allowed. :(


So to claify, as Malisteen brought up, any cohort you make with the Corpse Mage's ability will lose all of its class hit dice once the Skeleton or Zombie template is applied (as part of the template's actions). This means the cohort would have the minimum 1 hit die possible after the transformation until you got the Skeletal Champion or Vampire templates. Was there meant to be an exception to this built into the ability, or was this intentional?


Parka wrote:
So to claify, as Malisteen brought up, any cohort you make with the Corpse Mage's ability will lose all of its class hit dice once the Skeleton or Zombie template is applied (as part of the template's actions). This means the cohort would have the minimum 1 hit die possible after the transformation until you got the Skeletal Champion or Vampire templates. Was there meant to be an exception to this built into the ability, or was this intentional?

Well, don't I feel silly. I had an improper understanding of the Skeletal Champion template (I had originally thought it was a specific creature, and not a template, and certainly not a template that maintained class levels), and somehow entirely missed the fact that Corpse Mages can eventually pick up a vampire cohort via the ability.

So it's not a non-ability, it's just an ability that doesn't 'turn on' until 12th level, at which point it becomes every bit as broken as regular leadership. And then the ability becomes even more broken then regular leadership at 16th level, due to chain control spawning issues.

--------------------------

Now I have some new comments. Chain control spawning has been more or less done away with in Pathfinder by the changes to rebuke undead. The command undead feat allows a new save every day for intelligent undead, so any spawning undead you control with it will eventually break free by rolling a nat 20, causing your entire army to turn against you. Likewise the Command Undead spell allows saves, and as such your army will again eventually go uncontrolled. Since you can't rely on your means of control for the first creature, the entire army will eventually turn on you, making the whole concept fall apart - and rightly so, imo. Good job, pathfinder guys.

The 'army of the dead' power for the corpse mage re-introduces totally unlimited chain controlled spawn armies by granting A 16th level Death Mage a loyal vampire cohort. This is probably not a good move, frankly.

As a possible change, 3.5 had the 'undead leadership' feat, which specified that any spawn created by your cohort or followers had to fit within your followers limit. Otherwise they could not be created in the first place. Ie, if your leadership score permits you to have one 5th level follower and no 6th level followers, your vampire cohort could make a spawn of a 5th level human, so long as you had an open 5th level follower slot, and the vampire's own personal HD pool for spawn had room for it. The vampire could not, however, make a spawn from a 6th level human, because you don't have any room for a follower of that level. The same restriction would apply to any spawn you controlled as followers.

You might want to consider such a restriction for any future revision of this class.

You also might want to consider adding that your intelligent cohort maintains class levels, even before you gain access to the skeletal champion option. Otherwise this ability really is pretty non-functional until 12th level, as by 8th level skeletons and zombies of the PC races, even bloody skeletons or fast zombies, really aren't worth the effort of keeping track of in an adventuring environment. That's fine for followers - contributing to adventures really isn't their thing, anyway - but it does kind of defeat the point of a cohort.

-----------------------------

Quote:

If you are at least 8th level your cohort

or minions may be bloody or burning skeletons . . . . If you are at least 10th
level, your cohort or minions may be fast
zombies or plague zombies . . .

You also might consider changing this ti be burning skeletons or plague zombies at 8th level, and bloody skeletons or fast zombies at 10th level. Because plague zombies suck eggs due to the limited action things, while bloody skeletons are every bit as good if not better then fast zombies in many cases due to their resilience and self healing. That gives both skeletal and zombie options at both of those levels, so the corpse mage has roughly equivalent options for either visual style, while also being a somewhat more accurate reflection of the usefullness of the plague zombie and bloody skeleton templates, in that, again bloody skeleton > plague zombie, especially when controlled by PCs.

----------------------------

You also still might consider a completely different ability altogether, as Leadership is horribly broken and has been outright banned in almost every campaign ever. Once the Death Mage gains access to the skeletal champion cohort, this ability is every bit as totally broken as regular leadership.

I suppose in campaigns that don't allow leadership, players could simply pick a different Pale Road, but as it stands, the Corpse Mage pale road just doesn't have any abilities at all after first level in most campaigns due to the generally unbalanced nature of Leadership. There are fewer campaigns that allow leadership then there are that ban it, and that is a serious usability dent in what would probably otherwise be the most popular Pale Road.

-------------------------------

Let me end by saying something nice, since I spent a whole post harping on one of my few complaints again. The Corspe Mage's first level ability - the spell like command undead several times a day, is cool, balanced, and fluffy. I love that you added a HD cap to it, making it much more balanced then the original spell it's based on. That HD cap also makes it so the ability doesn't completely overshadow the spell itself - Death Mage's with the ability still might have reason to memorize the actual spell on occassion.

I also love that you didn't just give them the cleric's channel negative energy ability, or the the command undead feat that clerics can take, or that wizards can pick up via specialization. It's nice to see something different.

So great job with that one!


Also, if you ever expand on this class in another product (say, including it in a larger campaign source book or the like), more fetish abilities would be cool. Right now there just aren't all that many fetish abilities to choose from when compared to how many the Death Mage accumulates over the course of their career.

And while some of these abilities are exciting, others are a bit less so. The process of adding creatures to your fetish seems more interesting then many of the abilities you actually gain by doing so.

Sczarni

On that note, May I add that a small release with new class features for all the SGG classes would be pretty nice


Frerezar wrote:
On that note, May I add that a small release with new class features for all the SGG classes would be pretty nice

I would buy it if it included additional fetish powers. If some of the extra options for other SGG classes looked cool, it might also prompt me to buy the PDF's for those classes as well.

Scarab Sages

Okay, that's at least two votes for new powers for the SGG base classes. We will definitely look at that idea.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Okay, that's at least two votes for new powers for the SGG base classes. We will definitely look at that idea.

How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Super Genius Games

Jam412 wrote:
How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
HyrumOWC wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

woo-hoo!!!

Sczarni

HyrumOWC wrote:

Jam412 wrote:

How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

Sweet, one more thing to get when I´m over in the states.

PS: With this and the P20 project going the way its going, it seems like good times in SGG.


Frerezar wrote:
PS: With this and the P20 project going the way its going, it seems like good times in SGG.

And if anyone hasn't done their due diligence, it's still a long way from the goal funding with 58 days remaining. Everyone has to do their part and sign up! :)


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Okay, that's at least two votes for new powers for the SGG base classes. We will definitely look at that idea.

Personal requests for additional features, if this idea ever becomes a reality:

1) More fetish powers, including more powerful fetish powers restricted to higher levels. More fetish powers that interact with the Death Mage's spellcasting abilities.

2) An alternate version of the corpse mage's 'army of the dead' feature for campaigns that don't allow leadership.

3) A few additional spells on the spell list. A couple of the spell levels look a little thin. Spells buffing undead or unbreathing creatures would be cool.

I can't think of many good ideas for alternate death bonds. An actual undead companion would be cool, but would probably overlap too much with the unbreathing companion and the corpse mage's undead cohort.

Maybe an internal death bond, to contrast with the other, external options, that would manifest as the slow accumulation of various undead resistances and immunities as the character levels?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Urizen wrote:
Frerezar wrote:
PS: With this and the P20 project going the way its going, it seems like good times in SGG.
And if anyone hasn't done their due diligence, it's still a long way from the goal funding with 58 days remaining. Everyone has to do their part and sign up! :)

Sorry for the derail, but what's the P20 project?


Jam412 wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Frerezar wrote:
PS: With this and the P20 project going the way its going, it seems like good times in SGG.
And if anyone hasn't done their due diligence, it's still a long way from the goal funding with 58 days remaining. Everyone has to do their part and sign up! :)
Sorry for the derail, but what's the P20 project?

Glad you asked! :D Check it out right here!

Super Genius Games

Jam412 wrote:
Sorry for the derail, but what's the P20 project?

It's the name of our Modern RPG patron project: P20 Modern. You can read more about it in this thread:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/products/licensees/superGeniusHowMuchDoYouWantAPathfinderModernGame

And see the actual Kickstarter page here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2080655001/game-design-p20-modern-rolep laying-game

Hyrum.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Okay, that's at least two votes for new powers for the SGG base classes. We will definitely look at that idea.

Theres another vote here for sure, and a big woohoo for a compiled print edition of SGG material. I have all your pdfs but my printer my thank you for a print copy ;)


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
HyrumOWC wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

Did I miss the announcement?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jam412 wrote:
HyrumOWC wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

Did I miss the announcement?

Yep you sure did

HERE


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
HyrumOWC wrote:
Jam412 wrote:
How many votes will we need for a compiled print edition of your stuff? ;-)

Done!

:D

Expect an announcement in the next week or so.

Hyrum.

Did I miss the announcement?

Yep you sure did

HERE

Thanks!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

You're welcome.


I'm just wondering if the version here : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/death- mage is the updated one?

I'm just confused about a few things :

Fly is listed as a class skill, but fly is not on the class spell list, therefore by RAW, the death mage can't put any points into the fly skill (barring the player using a flying race or getting a magic item that lets him fly).

Secrets of the dead adds a bonus to any undead related knowledge check, but by RAW, this does not let you make trained knowledge checks (as it's just a bonus and knowledge(religion) is still not a class skill). Is this a oversight?

Also just my opinion...but the reaper mage seems a bit...odd. It's clearly designed as a melee spellcaster like the magus with the reap ability, but unlike a magus, you have no way to buff yourself. It seems like you would end up with a MAD wizard with rather lackluster melee damage (especially considering that the death mage spells don't work on a lot of enemies, and are much weaker than buffs of a similar level). Reap also seems inferior to the Magus weapon related abilities/arcanas, especially considering that you can only use it 3+cha per day, and it's counted per attack (full attack for 3 attack, there's 3 uses gone). Overall the reaper mage feels like a watered down magus.

I'm also curious why cha is the main spellcasting stat, but the death mage is not a spontaneous caster (as is normal for cha casters).


The knowledge question was asked in the product discussion thread, but if I remember correctly this is entirely intentional. They're meant to be smart about undead, not religion in general.

I also believe that the reaper mage can use a fetish power to boost to-hit against his attuned e enemies. In any event, deathly juggernaut would be a good choice as a spell.


My point is that even a level 20 death mage would not be able to make any decent undead related knowledge checks as it is not a class skill, and you cannot make untrained knowledge checks above DC 10. Effectively making the class ability pointless.

The reaper mage could use that fetish power, but then he's pretty much a gimped ranger. And it's still badly inferior to a magus using a level 1 spell like enlarge person, or an arcana like arcane accuracy.

Reap itself is basically a weaker version of magus spellstrike. Except that you don't get weapon enhancements, spell buffs or arcana.

Edit : Just noticed the link i posted above is broken. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/death- mage

Also noticed that a lot of the fetish powers have conflicting stat requirements, is this intended? Some are based off Intelligence, some are based off cha, some are based off Wis...

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Question wrote:
My point is that even a level 20 death mage would not be able to make any decent undead related knowledge checks as it is not a class skill, and you cannot make untrained knowledge checks above DC 10. Effectively making the class ability pointless.

Class skill and trained are not the same. If you put a single rank in Knowledge (religion), you are trained. It being a "class skill" just determines if you get a +3 class bonus or not.


Yea, that's true. But it's generally not a good idea to put points into non-class skills (barring perception). I think it makes more sense if the ability lets you make knowledge checks as if you were trained though.

And it's probably something you should get at level 1, it's a bit weird that you got 4 levels knowing absolutely nothing about undead and then BAM you know stuff.

Liberty's Edge

Question wrote:

Yea, that's true. But it's generally not a good idea to put points into non-class skills (barring perception). I think it makes more sense if the ability lets you make knowledge checks as if you were trained though.

And it's probably something you should get at level 1, it's a bit weird that you got 4 levels knowing absolutely nothing about undead and then BAM you know stuff.

Its generally a good idea to put skill points where you want skill points, rather they are class skills or not.

The death mage's ability works just fine the way it is and is very flavorful. If you want to re-write the class, the home brew forum is just a little below this one.


Not really, it would make more sense if a death mage was allowed to make knowledge checks as if he was trained in them.

It is just extremly weird that you can have a level 20 death mage with +20 to undead related knowledge checks, but he can't actually make trained skill checks with it because he's not actually considered trained.

It's even weirder that a death mage is better at geography, planes or dungeoneering than religion, considering none of those 3 have anything whatsoever to do with undead or necromancy.

Owen : Any response to the other issues i pointed out earlier?

Edit : I would like to hear if anyone has run a death mage in a game, and how it compared to say, the magus or a necromancy focused cleric/wizard?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You can make a 20th level Ranger who gets +10 to follow tracks but isn't trained in Survival. I don't see that as a problem. However, being able to make the check untrained would be similar to the Bard's bardic knowledge ability, and it does seem a little odd that death mages would be be better at geography than religion.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

The fact that undead are covered by Knowledge religion forced someone creating a non-divine necromancer-type class to have one of two weird outcomes. Either the character is extra well-versed in all religion despite having no special reason to know much about gods, outsiders, and religious rites, or the character must have some way of being good at undead-related checks despite not having Know: relig as a class skill.

I took the later.

MOST skill bonuses from classes don't allow you to treat the skill as trained without putting a rank into it (see rangers and survival, above). Bardic knowledge is the main exception.

By 5th level, a death mage is more likely to identify an undead as a cleric or sorcerer with the same number of ranks. Since that's as a result of her power to listen to dead people tell her things growing in power, that doesn't strike me as weird at all, nor is there any special reason it should happen at 1st level. If the death mage can't be bothered to drop one rank into the skill then she can't comprehend the things the dead spirits tell her, limiting her to making an untrained check.

I saw a lot of builds for 5th level and higher death mages with a single rank of knowledge religion in playtesting. I saw none with no ranks. I saw several with max ranks, which makes them better at identifying undead than any other character, but still not as good at other religious questions as a cleric or paladin, which is as it should be.

The other knowledge skills they receive are classics for arcane spellcasters,and/or all are things I thought it likely to come up while studying arcane questions of tombs and catacombs (dungeoneering), ancient dead (history), the recent dead (geography, which is the official skill for knowing about "people"), funeral traditions (local), and negative energy (planes).

Knowledge (religion) is only a class skill for classes with a strong bent toward religion as a whole, or who are noted as scholars. Other than divine spellscasters, every class that gets Knowledge religion receives every knowledge skill as a class skill. Even druids and rangers, who are often the direct agents of nature gods, don't have it as a class skill.

Death mages are much closer to death-themed sorcerers, and I wouldn't want a cleric PC to ever feel like the non-sage, non-divine spellcaster was stealing his ecclesiastic thunder.

I continue to be satisfied with the design.

Liberty's Edge

Owen, I'm pleased with the design as well. (I'm pleased with most everything you've designed to be honest.) But you can't please all the people all the time.

Question, if you're so good at design, prove it. Do your own design work, make your own company, and sell your own products. Let the world see how much better you are than everyone else.

And as a side note, if you build a character and are so concerned with min-maxing that you're unwilling to put skill points in skills simply because they aren't class skills, well then I don't think I want any of your products.


ShadowcatX wrote:

Owen, I'm pleased with the design as well. (I'm pleased with most everything you've designed to be honest.) But you can't please all the people all the time.

Question, if you're so good at design, prove it. Do your own design work, make your own company, and sell your own products. Let the world see how much better you are than everyone else.

And as a side note, if you build a character and are so concerned with min-maxing that you're unwilling to put skill points in skills simply because they aren't class skills, well then I don't think I want any of your products.

Whoa, easy there Shadowcat. I think Question was just questioning in a querying manner, rather than asking quite questionable questions questing for trouble. Rather than quashing his queries, or quailing at his quips, or quizzing him on his queer quirks, or quitting in a pique, we should quest to quell this disqcomfort lest we look like quacking ducks.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Quite. :)

I just want to say I'm impressed by the amount of flavor that was squeezed into, "Kind of like necromancer, but with a different power source."


Question wrote:
Not really, it would make more sense if a death mage was allowed to make knowledge checks as if he was trained in them.

This is fixed by the cost of 1 trait.

I don't really see that as a design flaw.


I'm confused as to why Owen is fixating on the knowledge religion thing. I asked several questions, and the knowledge one wasn't even the main one.

I'm copypasting everything again just in case he missed it the first time round :

I'm just wondering if the version here : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/death- mage is the updated one?

I'm just confused about a few things :

Fly is listed as a class skill, but fly is not on the class spell list, therefore by RAW, the death mage can't put any points into the fly skill (barring the player using a flying race or getting a magic item that lets him fly).

Also just my opinion...but the reaper mage seems a bit...odd. It's clearly designed as a melee spellcaster like the magus with the reap ability, but unlike a magus, you have no way to buff yourself. It seems like you would end up with a MAD wizard with rather lackluster melee damage (especially considering that the death mage spells don't work on a lot of enemies, and are much weaker than buffs of a similar level). Reap also seems inferior to the Magus weapon related abilities/arcanas, especially considering that you can only use it 3+cha per day, and it's counted per attack (full attack for 3 attack, there's 3 uses gone). Overall the reaper mage feels like a watered down magus.

I'm also curious why cha is the main spellcasting stat, but the death mage is not a spontaneous caster (as is normal for cha casters).


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

The fact that undead are covered by Knowledge religion forced someone creating a non-divine necromancer-type class to have one of two weird outcomes. Either the character is extra well-versed in all religion despite having no special reason to know much about gods, outsiders, and religious rites, or the character must have some way of being good at undead-related checks despite not having Know: relig as a class skill.

I took the later.

I can see why you did this, but there is no good way to do this in pathfinder. To give an example, one could argue that clerics should only be well versed in terms of religion, rather than necromantic rites unless they are worshipping a death related god. I can't see a cleric of the god of money being awesome at identifying undead in addition to being well versed in clerical rituals (unless you are playing in a setting where all clerics are undead hunters). Similarly one could argue that Barbarians should not have knowledge (nature) as it allows them to identify magical fairies, which is not a very barbarian like thing to do (unless of course, your setting has barbarians waging war with the fey on a regular basis).

Quote:
MOST skill bonuses from classes don't allow you to treat the skill as trained without putting a rank into it (see rangers and survival, above). Bardic knowledge is the main exception.

This is true, but the ranger is a class designed with tracking as a main feature and with survival as a class skill. From both a flavour and mechanic standpoint, it makes no sense to not put at least one point into survival.

Quote:

By 5th level, a death mage is more likely to identify an undead as a cleric or sorcerer with the same number of ranks. Since that's as a result of her power to listen to dead people tell her things growing in power, that doesn't strike me as weird at all, nor is there any special reason it should happen at 1st level. If the death mage can't be bothered to drop one rank into the skill then she can't comprehend the things the dead spirits tell her, limiting her to making an untrained check.

I saw a lot of builds for 5th level and higher death mages with a single rank of knowledge religion in playtesting. I saw none with no ranks. I saw several with max ranks, which makes them better at identifying undead than any other character, but still not as good at other religious questions as a cleric or paladin, which is as it should be.

Fair enough, however i still find it odd that everyone is equal or better than the death mage at identifying undead before level 5, and even at level 5 clerics/sorcs with 5 ranks in the skill are still better due to the +3 class skill bonus. It creates an odd situation where you have a necromancer that communicates with the spirits of the dead to prepare spells (and can summon unbreathing monsters at level 1)...but is no better at identifying undead before level 5 compared to a town guard.

Quote:

The other knowledge skills they receive are classics for arcane spellcasters,and/or all are things I thought it likely to come up while studying arcane questions of tombs and catacombs (dungeoneering), ancient dead (history), the recent dead (geography, which is the official skill for knowing about "people"), funeral traditions (local), and negative energy (planes).

Knowledge (religion) is only a class skill for classes with a strong bent toward religion as a whole, or who are noted as scholars. Other than divine spellscasters, every class that gets...

The irony is that by your own definition, a death mage should NOT have those as class skills because only a sub set of those skills have to do with the dead. If you are argueing that they should not have knowledge religion because they should not be knowledgeable about religion AND undead, then there is no reason for a death mage to have dungoneering as it allows them to both know about abberations AND tombs, history as it allows them to know about the ancient dead AND trade treaty dates, local (funeral traditions AND the most popular brothel in town)...the list is endless.

Sure, you don't want a death mage to be as good at religion as a cleric. Fair enough. But you don't see a problem when the death mage is as good at sniffing out local rumours as a rogue?

Once again i understand your reasoning for not making knowledge religion as a class skill, i just don't see it as being consistently applied in the very same class.

P.S. Please see the above post as well, thanks.

Scarab Sages Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

Question wrote:
Fly is listed as a class skill, but fly is not on the class spell list, therefore by RAW, the death mage can't put any points into the fly skill (barring the player using a flying race or getting a magic item that lets him fly).

Absolutely true. Since they are arcane spellcasters, if the player did want to go the distance and find a reliable way to fly, I wanted them to get the class bonus. That's a simple role choice.

Question wrote:
Also just my opinion...but the reaper mage seems a bit...odd.

It's not really true that I expected a reaper mage to function as a true fighting-caster hybrid. A death mage is a full spellcaster with 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells. Instead I wanted the reaper mage to have *more* martial options than a typical death mage, much like a cleric who takes martial domains or a sorcerer who takes the abyssal bloodline and gets claws. In fact it is because death mages don't do buffing spells I included the option -- being a reaper mage is how you make a death mage who is less hampered in melee, rather than selecting AC and melee boosting spells.

The lack of buffing spells and big flash-booms is one of the reasons I went with hp and attack bonus progressions normally used by divine spellcasters, as well.

The reaper mage is actually primarily an anti-undead death mage, and since reaping suggests using a scythe I wanted a death mage to have an option for making that iconic weapon not as poor a choice.

Of course the reaper mage *needs* to be worse at melee than a magus, since they have greater spelclasting ability.

Question wrote:
I'm also curious why cha is the main spellcasting stat, but the death mage is not a spontaneous caster (as is normal for cha casters).

It's the norm, but there's no reason it has to be that way. Since death mages are constantly engaged in behind-the-scenes discussions and conversations, and what they can do is supposed to be learned from spirits of the dead, I liked the idea of them being good as social skills. Perky goths, intimidating grave-haunters, and seductive dark party-goers are all common necromancer tropes, so I wanted to play to those.

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