I was digging through the cleric domains and found that there is a real difference in the power of domains. Some domains are very powerful, others seem situationally powerful, and a few seem monstrously weak.
Now, I'm not trying to start a "ZOMG DOMAIN [x] IS TEH BEST!!!" thread, or even try to rank them by tier. What I'd really like to do is explore the inherent strengths of each domain, and perhaps builds and concepts that could fully actualize said strengths.
Here are a few thoughts I have on the domains:
Animal - This domain seems pretty decently powerful at first glance, as an animal companion would prove quite useful to a cleric. However, it falls short when you realize that the best animal buffs (greater magic fang at the front of the line) aren't available to you. Still, the ability to communicate with your animal companion is quite useful. The spell list is quite weak, though it does give access to many spells not on the cleric list. An exception here is Antilife Shell, which is a fantastic spell for *any* caster.
Artifice - This domain surprised me with how powerful it was. The artificer's touch ability makes you an excellent locksmith, escape artist, and construct-foe. I can see using this ability all the way to 20. Dancing weapon lets you focus on casting without losing too much melee ability, and the spell list is pretty decent. Real shining stars include Minor/major creation and fabricate. Artifice would be the perfect domain for a crafting cleric, but a solid choice for most clerics.
Plant - The domain abilities seem pretty weak at first, yet I can see some inherent strengths in them. Bramble Armor requires you to get hit, which sucks, but it's certainly useful in a grapple. Wooden Fist allows a range-based character to eschew a back-up melee weapon for the times when she gets stuck in melee combat. Ranged clerics should probably invest in weapon finesse, and unarmed strike will certainly benefit from that. The spell list is among the best, drawing almost entirely from the druid list and many of them are winners (entangle, barkskin, plant growth, wall of thorns, repel wood, shambler).
Protection - While most of the abilities grant the same bonuses a magic item would, they're still dang useful. A +1/5 levels resistance bonus to saves means you'll never invest in a cloak of resistance, and you've got the option of giving it to an ally (meh). Aura of Protection grants a deflection bonus to ac (yuck), but also grants resist 5/10 to all elements, which is downright amazing. This essentially makes elemental weapons useless and takes the sting off of any enemy trying to employ magic that isn't force, negative, or holy. Domain spells are pretty meh, but they aren't spells you'd never want to prepare.
What do y'all think?
Personally, the repose domain is a winner for all levels all the way to 20. In our current group we have two clerics of Pharasma (one a healer and one for dps.) Their gentle rest touch ability combined makes our rogue able to coup-de-grace. Quite the little team-up.
Personally, the repose domain is a winner for all levels all the way to 20. In our current group we have two clerics of Pharasma (one a healer and one for dps.) Their gentle rest touch ability combined makes our rogue able to coup-de-grace. Quite the little team-up.
That's a very specific way to do it, yet works really well. I can see it working *very* well with a full BAB weapon user who invests in Staggering Critical, or a monk.
The Travel Domain is downright vicious for parties without a Wizard (sorcerers can do more with spells known than teleport), and the ability to teleport out of melee as a move action with no AoO is wonderful for casting focused clerics with the new defensive casting mechanics.
the other domains i like are rune, because it gives a free feat. clerics aren't exactly rolling in feats. of course, this is offset by the fact that they can't even cast one of their domain spells without your gm bending the rules, so YMMV.
Are you talking about the 8th level domain spell, "symbol"? It's supposed to be Symbol of Death. :P
Trickery is a pretty decent domain, with an awesome 1st level ability (basically 50% concealment vs. everything for 1 attack) that you'll likely use right to 20. Bonus class skills are nice, but with few skill points I don't see them being of too much use. The 8th level ability is pretty awesome if you use it for ambushes (pretend to be orcs and walk right into the encampment). The spells are solid, with invisibility/mass invis & Time Stop being among the best.
I know there's been some complaining about the strength domain, but I don't see its powers as being useless. Sure, not an everyday thing, but when a strength check presents itself (wall spells, breaking down doors) you'll be at the front of the line. Also, the spell list is great at the upper levels with access to the Hand series, so pick a domain with decent low-level spells and you're set.
no. instant summons. which requires you to also cast arcane mark. which you don't have.
Are you talking about the 8th level domain spell, "symbol"? It's supposed to be Symbol of Death. :P...snip...
Ha! I never caught that. Insane.
I'm a fan of the madness domain. 1st level touch attack that scales all the way to 20 (+10 to skills, -10 to attack & saves = ouch). 8th level AOE confusion. And a good selection of spells that doesn't overlap with your normal spells.
My beef is that some of the domains give a goody at level 20 and some do not. If they all did this it'd make up for the Cleric not getting anything special at level 20 imo.
My beef is that some of the domains give a goody at level 20 and some do not. If they all did this it'd make up for the Cleric not getting anything special at level 20 imo.
Aside from the elemental domains that grant energy immunity at 20 (which, to be honest, isn't amazing when you already have resist 20, though it's nice), which domains give a capstone? I know several give an additional use of something you got at 6th or 8th, but it just sorta happens to fall on 20.
On the madness domain, that is insanely broken. There should definitely be a save involved for unwilling creatures.
Travel domain is a winner. It brings fly, Dimension Door and Teleport to the Cleric as well as providing a move action teleport ability. Every spell on the list is a spell I would recommend.
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Travel domain is a winner. It brings fly, Dimension Door and Teleport to the Cleric as well as providing a move action teleport ability. Every spell on the list is a spell I would recommend.
I was so absolutely excited when I got a chance for my cleric of Cayden Cailean to use her 8th level strength domain ability. The fighter types were jostling for the chance to rip open the locked trap door, and I just said "Leave it to me."
Of course, I expect that's the only time I'm going to use the ability my entire career - but that's why I had to step in and use it when given half a chance.
I think adding a "Throw anything" sort of bonus in on these checks to toss boulders or paisley couches around the battlefield would be pretty cool...or allow the bonus to apply to a CMB check, if not an actual attack.
There are some domains I am very dissappointed with.
Strength domain.
The level 1 ability cannot be used on yourself effectively. So a cleric of a god of strength can only make others strong?
The there is Might of the Gods. Lets see:
1. Requires a standard action to activate, but only effects you. So if you want to use this ability for 1 round, it will cost you 2 rounds worth of the power. 1 Round to activate, and 1 round to use it.
2. Cannot be used for combat. Yay, I can get a +20 strength, but I cannot use it for attack or damage rolls.
Destruction has a lot of potential in a melee heavy party. Adding half your level to all damage rolls can add up real quick.
War domain.
It used to be that this was the only domain that got weapon profiency. Now every cleric gets weapon prof with their gods favored weapon.
The level 1 power has the same problem as the strength domain. It is effectively only good for boosting others.
The level 8 ability is neat. A free feat that you can change every time you use it. The only problem is that this pales in comparison to what a lot of other domains get.
Great idea to point out the strong points for each domain!
Plant - The domain abilities seem pretty weak at first, yet I can see some inherent strengths in them. Bramble Armor requires you to get hit, which sucks, but it's certainly useful in a grapple. Wooden Fist allows a range-based character to eschew a back-up melee weapon for the times when she gets stuck in melee combat. Ranged clerics should probably invest in weapon finesse, and unarmed strike will certainly benefit from that. The spell list is among the best, drawing almost entirely from druid spells...
Plant allowed a *great* combination of Cleric and Monk. One level of Monk to get most of the requirements (unarmed, wis to AC, etc.), then as much cleric as you want. With the Wooden Fist ability your unarmed strike damage will scale up at almost exactly the same rate as actually taking monk levels, for the rounds that you use the ability of course.
You do lose out on the later flurry attacks, and a bit of BAB, but you're a full cleric (almost) to make up for it.
Charm domain is a devastatingly powerful one as well, primarily for it's first level ability, Dazing Touch - any living creature that doesn't have more HD than you have cleric levels is out of combat for a round. But Swift action charm person at 8th is nice too, and a decent set of spells.
In an undead heavy campaign the combination of Glory and Sun have good synergy. From Sun you get +level on damage and negate the undead's resistance. From the Glory domain you get a +2 to the DC to save for half damage. The spell Bless Weapon from the Glory domain is enough for some players to take it.
Doug
In an undead heavy campaign the combination of Glory and Sun have good synergy. From Sun you get +level on damage and negate the undead's resistance. From the Glory domain you get a +2 to the DC to save for half damage. The spell Bless Weapon from the Glory domain is enough for some players to take it.
Doug
All hail Sarenrae!
All hail Sarenrae!In an undead heavy campaign the combination of Glory and Sun have good synergy. From Sun you get +level on damage and negate the undead's resistance. From the Glory domain you get a +2 to the DC to save for half damage. The spell Bless Weapon from the Glory domain is enough for some players to take it.
Doug
Amen Brother
I have a cleric of Sarenrae with the Glory and Sun domains that has taken the Elemental Channel feat. Would the domain benefits against undead transfer to Outsiders via the EC feat?
I've gotten sporadic use out of the Good domain from 1st to 5th level. Now that my cleric's 6th level (and the bonus is +3), I'll be looking for more opportunities to use it. I can see it being useful in a surprise round when you need a quick boost to your saving throws. I guess you could also stick close to an archer type to offset their penalties.
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I have a cleric of Sarenrae with the Glory and Sun domains that has taken the Elemental Channel feat. Would the domain benefits against undead transfer to Outsiders via the EC feat?
No. The abilities both specify it only applies to channeling against undead. As such, channeling to harm other things (whether living creatures due to being a negative channeler or elementals due to Elemental Channel) will not get those effects.
It would be a different story if Elemental Channel said something like "treat elementals as undead for purposes of Channel Energy", but it doesn't.
The Door Sight ability from the Exploration subdomain has come in VERY handy for my (separatist) cleric of Torag. And you still get the +10' movement from the Travel domain.