I'd assumed that the core rulebook was going to be the break off point with 3.5 and material after that wasn't going to look back anymore.
That is probably a bad assumption. One of the goals of Pathfinder is to remain "compatable" with 3.5. That means we should expect no big changes to core rules, but instead filling in missing things. For example, the 3.5 vehicle rules are not open content (to my knowledge). Paizo will have to do some new rules for that, eventually. Likewise, the Kingmaker AP will (if I read James Jacobs comments right) include new rules for buying or constructing buildings (also not part of the 3.5 open content core).
Alternative rule systems will remain just that: alternative, and not "core".
Note, however, that as Unearthed Arcana is all open content, and 3.5 based, you can probably use it just about "as is" with Pathfinder. In other words, you don't need Paizo to write it; it is already written. This is especially true of "add-on" systems, like the Contacts and Reputation systems.
Note, however, that as Unearthed Arcana is all open content, and 3.5 based, you can probably use it just about "as is" with Pathfinder. In other words, you don't need Paizo to write it; it is already written. This is especially true of "add-on" systems, like the Contacts and Reputation systems.
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Exactly. Now if Paizo folks came up with cool new and better rules, I'd be interested. However, there are plenty of options out there already that they are already familiar with.
That's unfortunate. I never liked the spell slot system, it never made sense to me.
Well, Pathfinder is the spiritual successor to D&D, and D&D IS Vancian magic with spell slots.
There are a killion systems with mana or other systems, and alternate rules for 3e/Pathfinder to use spell points or even spell components (not material and verbal, more like "summon" "do damage" "affect movement") where you create your spells from scratch.
I never remember Gandalf or any other spell caster in any books saying "Sorry guys, I'm out of high level spells, can't be of much help".
Gandalf had high level spells? He had light. That's a 0-level spell you can do all day.
Either he was one level wizard and a lot of levels of fighter or something like that, or he walked through the whole story with all his spells gone.
Ah well, those few things shouldn't be too hard to use in Pathfinder and only need minor tweaks if any.
Take a good look at 3.5e psionics from the expanded psionics handbook, which was a pretty good mana system (though it had power points). It took into consideration that in many aspects, caster level often affects spell power as much as or more than spell level. If you are level 10 and can use your mana to cast a few cones of cold (10d6) or many fireballs (10d6), you'll probably use fireballs.
I also think that Paizo will sooner or later do their own Unearthed Arcana - a book full with variant rules. This book will have the more exotic stuff like variant spell systems, stuff that affects the whole game, while books like the advanced player's guide will have variant rules to change isolated parts of the game, like a single class.
And yet, when most people think of the stereotype of wizard, it is Gandalf who comes to mind. And yes, he doesn't have high level fireballs-from-heaven-blowing-everything-around-up spells
And that makes him singularly unsuited for the job of poster child Pathfinder wizard.
So what if his magic works differently from Pathfinder? He's not a typical Pathfinder wizard regardless of magic system.
He's able to light things on fire (pine cones in The Hobbit
He has levels of rogues and palmed some matches :P
talks to Frodo telepathically while Frodo is wearing the ring at the end of Fellowship, and in general seems to be more buffing his companions.
He gives pep talks and buffs companions!
He's a bard!Bards cast spontaneously!
Problem solved! :)
Gandalf was a lesser angel, not a wizard in D&D terms, and D&D has always had far more to do with Dying Earth then with Tolkien's work. It was only really Forgotten Realms that went LotR Overload.
Just saying' :U
Gandalf was a lesser angel, not a wizard in D&D terms, and D&D has always had far more to do with Dying Earth then with Tolkien's work. It was only really Forgotten Realms that went LotR Overload.
Just saying' :U
I dunno, the "halflings" in second edition were pretty much hobbits. And rangers were from LoTR, and dwarves really haven't changed much from Tolkien in any fantasy game.
OK, so Dying Earth with Tolkien races. That sounds pretty accurate.
Yep. Who's the iconic wizard for PF? A guy with white hair, a beard and a staff. 'Twas ever thus! :)
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I'd prefer they made a softback book for this kind of thing. It would be interesting, and I would like it to be focused on campaign altering things, not class alterations. That's what we have the APG for. I'm all for the spell point system, although it may need to be refined even more.
I've played with both Recharge Magic and Spell Points and have found that they are both equally wonderful, depending on your campaign and frequency of combat.
Spell points are great for once or twice a day combat because it encourages the caster to toss weapons to the side and unleash their spell casting fury.
Recharge magic works great for constant combat as long as your willing to use the spells tactically and accept possibly waiting a few rounds of nothing. Most notably, the campaign I played with this variant back in 3.5 involved a party consisting of a Druid, Paladin, Fighter, Wizard, and Rogue, but no cleric. So it helped a lot that they could use cure spells without risking loss of other good spells they liked having. It did have the backfire of slightly crippling my wizard though. But I learned to use a crossbow quite well and decided to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor to supplement my weak base attack bonus for the crossbow as well as boost my armor class (I was doing the taboo art of wearing a chain shirt [with Light Armor Prof] and rolling spell failure).
Other fun things are the class based AC bonus. This helps characters play archetypes they see in other media that aren't decked to the teeth in magic armor (zorro, batman, highlander) without being penalized for wanting to enjoy their character.
on a related note, I despise the "Gandalf as wizard" icon. More so the "Elves are great wizards" idea.
Gandalf was a lesser angel, not a wizard in D&D terms, and D&D has always had far more to do with Dying Earth then with Tolkien's work. It was only really Forgotten Realms that went LotR Overload.
Just saying' :U
But the fantasy genre is extremely heavily inspired by Tolkien's work. The modern image of a wizard specifically is heavily influenced. I'm quite certain the wizard wearing a long robe, pointy hat, long white beard and staff first shows up in Gandalf. And the tobacco pipe.
Gandalf's appearance was, as with much of LotR, inspired by Norse mythology.
The traditional wizard is Odin ;)
I've always seen Gandalf (and Odin for that matter) as Bards more than Wizards. Gandalf's two most important skills/roles in LotR are those of knowledge and inspiring others to do great things.
No one can deny that Gandalf has obscenely high Knowledge skill ranks...that either smacks of Loremaster or Bard (or Bard/Loremaster).
And in many places in the story, his words of wisdom inspire courage, lifts the morale, etc. in those who listens.
His magic is mostly divination, enchantment and abjuration (You shall not pass, anyone?). And countering the enchantment cast on Theoden King is either a "countersong" or Dispel Magic.
So yeah, Gandalf was a bard...
Odin was a very busy god, he was also Santa
But yeah I would peg Gandalf more bard then wizard. Maybe just low level with being an outsider and all
No, the picture of the wizard is based off Gandalf maybe , what they do is not really based off him at all. I say more modern wizards sprung from D&D wizards then Gandalf, they just used his image not really him
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If we really wanna make such stretches as to claim that Gandalf is the progenitor of the 'wizard image', why don't we throw some Yen Sid from Disney's 1940 animated feature Fantasia (specifically The Sorcerer's Apprentice)? He does fit the bill rather well :)
As for the OP question, I do not know if such variants as the ones in Unearthed Arcana are going to be featured in the APG. I certainly hope only player specific variants are included. Nothing more :)
Yen Sid would kick Gandalf lame arse
If we really wanna make such stretches as to claim that Gandalf is the progenitor of the 'wizard image', why don't we throw some Yen Sid from Disney's 1940 animated feature Fantasia (specifically The Sorcerer's Apprentice)? He does fit the bill rather well :)
You funny people. Tolkien published The Hobbit in 1937 and was writing it in the early 30's, so Gandalf existed before Yen sid. And that means who was modeled on who? That is, if Walt even knew of the existence of Tolkien and The Hobbit at that time.
As for the inspiration of Gandalf, this painting was seen on a post card by Tolkien and became the origin of Gandalf's appearance, according to a biography of Tolkien.
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And that means who was modeled on who? That is, if Walt even knew of the existence of Tolkien and The Hobbit at that time.
Actually, Yen Sid was simply the name viewers gave to the master sorcerer. The master himself was based on the 'old sorcerer' from Goethes' poem Der Zauberlehrling, which was written in 1797.
But since we are talking about old sorcerer's/wizard's, wouldn't it be a really interesting idea if the older a spellcaster got the less material (i.e. organs, need for food/sleep/air) they became and the more Arcane Sustenance they became? Now THAT is a variant that would be useful for the old crotchety evil wizard of doom (or any player who wants to be old, which I've done and seen done, very fun btw).
Actually, Yen Sid was simply the name viewers gave to the master sorcerer. The master himself was based on the 'old sorcerer' from Goethes' poem Der Zauberlehrling, which was written in 1797.
No, it was not the viewer's that named him, it was the animator's of Fantasia that did, at least according to the wiki article on the movie:
"Yen Sid is the powerful sorcerer in The Sorcerer's Apprentice, appearing as an old man with a long beard and robes that extended to the floor. The nickname ("Disney" spelled backwards) was given by Disney animators, as the sorcerer in the The Sorcerer's Apprentice segment of Fantasia had no onscreen name, nor does the character in the original Goethe poem "Der Zauberlehrling", the inspiration for the music piece by Paul Dukas."
on a related note, I despise the "Gandalf as wizard" icon. More so the "Elves are great wizards" idea.
Well, they do get an Int bonus and a bonus to spell penetration. Plus, their long lifespan lends itself well to a job you need to learn a lot of ancient stuff for.
I think the only reason 3rd+ ed halflings were changed was copyright. What are the things other then the spell system that is Dying Earth?
Ioun stones; the spells Prismatic Spray & Imprisonment & Freedom (reversed Imprisonment) & Time Stop (some more than others); magical eye lenses; I'm sure other folks can come up with more ideas.
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No, it was not the viewer's that named him, it was the animator's of Fantasia that did, at least according to the wiki article on the movie
Good catch. Dunno what I was thinking. Up too late last night I guess :P
But regardless, Goethe trumped both Disney and Tolkien! lol.
Well, they do get an Int bonus and a bonus to spell penetration. Plus, their long lifespan lends itself well to a job you need to learn a lot of ancient stuff for.
Unfortunately, I know. IMO it's disgruntling (not a severe argument causing problem) that elves seem geared towards magic more than anything else. I wish that they had a choice to have spell penetration bonus or another bonus (maybe an initiative bonus based on their quasi-magical nature?). Of course I can (and probably will now that I've thought about it) houserule this. But do you see what I mean? Anyone else see this "racism" in the game, haha!
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*sigh* the "racism" comment was a joke. I was hoping "haha!" would indicate that. I apologize for not being specific.
As for the elf, it was a specific example based on the discussion of wizards. Yes, every race is mechanically good at one thing or another. Options encourage players to not be afraid to play a dwarf wizard for instance where they would be trumped mechanically by the elf wizard in potential power because that causes conflicting interests between individuals who want to play something but recognize the power of another combination.
*sigh* the "racism" comment was a joke. I was hoping "haha!" would indicate that. I apologize for not being specific.
As for the elf, it was a specific example based on the discussion of wizards. Yes, every race is mechanically good at one thing or another. Options encourage players to not be afraid to play a dwarf wizard for instance where they would be trumped mechanically by the elf wizard in potential power because that causes conflicting interests between individuals who want to play something but recognize the power of another combination.
I'll grant you that elves make naturally great wizards. Dwarves have other advantages that help them survive, though, particularly in underground dungeon-type campaigns. They average a +4 con, compared to elves, and darkvision is nice to have always on down in the murky depths.
In a mostly-underground campaign, dwarves aren't ever a bad choice, even for a wizard. They don't have to take toughness. The ones that do can handle a little rough stuff. :-)
Unfortunately, I know. IMO it's disgruntling (not a severe argument causing problem) that elves seem geared towards magic more than anything else. I wish that they had a choice to have spell penetration bonus or another bonus
Most races have abilities that guide them towards certain classes, not just elves.
And for elves, that's wizard, which has always been a focus for this game's elves. So it fits.
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Again, I'm aware. I was mainly poking at races geared towards being good wizards. But if we are going to generalize, how about I just ask this.
What would you suggest as alternative racial abilities (not each ability, just the ones you believe are designed for certain classes) for the core races to break this "guiding" towards certain classes?
Again, I'm aware. I was mainly poking at races geared towards being good wizards. But if we are going to generalize, how about I just ask this.
What would you suggest as alternative racial abilities (not each ability, just the ones you believe are designed for certain classes) for the core races to break this "guiding" towards certain classes?
Such an ability would be setting-wide and would have to make sense. And it would only exchange one focus for another. Humans are, and remain, the guys that are adaptable, and the other classes have certain preferences.