Racism within the iconics?


Advanced Player's Guide Playtest General Discussion

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I was making numbers and realize that from the icmoics there were:

- 0 Half-Elves
- 1 Dwarf
- 1 Halfling
- 1 Half-orc (relegated to thye APG)
- 2 Gnomes
- 3 Elves
- 10 Humans

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here? Is this coincidence? I don't think so.

We have a bestiary that counts sentinent proud people as monsters. How much are we going to let this regal beings be shuned by the people in Paizo?

My demands are simple, fairness and equallity among the sentient creatures of galarion and no less than 8 new Kobold iconics.

Meet my demands or be prepared to find your offices, houses, cars and/or cofees trapped.

Angrily,
Yawar

Grand Lodge

YawarFiesta wrote:

I was making numbers and realize that from the icmoics there were:

- 0 Half-Elves
- 1 Dwarf
- 1 Halfling
- 1 Half-orc (relegated to thye APG)
- 2 Gnomes
- 3 Elves
- 10 Humans

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here? Is this coincidence? I don't think so.

We have a bestiary that counts sentinent proud people as monsters. How much are we going to let this regal beings be shuned by the people in Paizo?

My demands are simple, fairness and equallity among the sentient creatures of galarion and no less than 8 new Kobold iconics.

Meet my demands or be prepared to find your offices, houses, cars and/or cofees trapped.

Angrily,
Yawar

If I remember correctly Golarion is human-centric. Also Seltyiel is a Half-Elf Fighter/Wizard Eldritch Knight so all the races are covered.


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Obviously the new alchemist Iconic should be a Satyr, while the Witch should be a Nymph. I wouldn't mind a kobold as an commoner iconic though, it would be suiting.

Shadow Lodge

The druid Iconic should be a dryad, the sorcerer should be a dragon, the bard should be a satyr, the wizard should be Raistlin, the barbarian should be a giant, etc, etc...

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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YawarFiesta wrote:
My demands are simple, fairness and equallity among the sentient creatures of galarion and no less than 8 new Kobold iconics.

Hmmm ... eight Kobold Iconics ...

Target Dummy, Skeet, Pit-Trap Tester, Potion Taster, Stepping Block, Walking Scabbard (or is that Limping?), Latrine Digger, and Pincushion? :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

First of all: Seltyiel, our multiclass iconic, is a half-elf. So we DO have one of every race among the core races.

Second of all: We've very much chosen to skew the iconics toward human. Golarion is humanocentric, as someone pointed out earlier. It's a very conscious decision... partially because we wanted to get lots of different human ethnicities in there, but also because humans are the most common race.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
Obviously the new alchemist Iconic should be a Satyr, while the Witch should be a Nympho.

Fixed that for you. :)


Tim Statler wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Obviously the new alchemist Iconic should be a Satyr, while the Witch should be a Nympho.
Fixed that for you. :)

It can't be both? I figured your part went without saying.

Dark Archive

I'm more interested in seeing Shoanti, Vudrans, Mwangi, Tien, Ulfen, etc. among the iconics, although mixing up the genders a bit more for the other races could be neat (a male gnome, a female dwarf, a male elf, a female halfling).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Players tend to be human, and characters they can more easily identify with tend to be more exciting.


A novelty edition of the Player's Handbook with every character replaced with a kobold would surely sell.

Dark Archive

It's also implied in the book that all half races have a human half. Implying the dwarves never have some taste for elven lovin'. And why are the rest of us lumped into the category of "Humanoids"? Like we're some human sub-species.

Down with racism! Bipedals unite!


Thalin wrote:
Implying the dwarves never have some taste for elven lovin'.

They did. The result was humans.


YawarFiesta wrote:


- 1 Half-orc (relegated to thye APG)

Isn't the Assassin a half-orc?

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Set wrote:

I'm more interested in seeing Shoanti, Vudrans, Mwangi, Tien, Ulfen, etc. among the iconics, although mixing up the genders a bit more for the other races could be neat (a male gnome, a female dwarf, a male elf, a female halfling).

Sajan the Iconic Monk is Vudrani, the Iconic Summoner is a male gnome (I think), and the new Iconic Alchemist is a male elf.

Odentin wrote:
Isn't the Assassin a half-orc?

And while the Assassin is a half-orc, none of the prestige class characters besides Seltiyel are technically Iconics.


Ellington wrote:
Thalin wrote:
Implying the dwarves never have some taste for elven lovin'.
They did. The result was humans.

*hork*

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Ellington wrote:
Thalin wrote:
Implying the dwarves never have some taste for elven lovin'.
They did. The result was humans.

I thought it was gnomes.


Kvantum wrote:
Ellington wrote:
Thalin wrote:
Implying the dwarves never have some taste for elven lovin'.
They did. The result was humans.
I thought it was gnomes.

I always figured that was dwarves and halflings.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ellington wrote:
A novelty edition of the Player's Handbook with every character replaced with a kobold would surely sell.

to about maybe... 5 people. :)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

LazarX wrote:
Ellington wrote:
A novelty edition of the Player's Handbook with every character replaced with a kobold would surely sell.
to about maybe... 5 people. :)

The PHB is out of print, so even a goofy novelty version would sell fairly well to people who wanted a copy. :3


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A Man In Black wrote:
Players tend to be human ...

I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
Players tend to be human ...
I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.

I agree none of the current group I am running are playing humans

but they are actually humans


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.

So like the rest of us, you play with the subgrouping Homo sapiegamericus?

Sovereign Court

Same here, in my table of 5-7 players we usually may have 1 human and if I'm playing it's usually me. Tieflings, tengu, dark elves, and all the more exotic races tend to be the fun races to play.

--Jingle Bell Vrock!


Joseph Raiten wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
Players tend to be human ...
I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.

I agree none of the current group I am running are playing humans

but they are actually humans

That's the distinction. While the denizens of my gaming table might be playing humans, I can see through their veil and know the truth. They are aliens. Aliens playing humans. And sometimes gnomes.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Joseph Raiten wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
Players tend to be human ...
I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.

I agree none of the current group I am running are playing humans

but they are actually humans

That's the distinction. While the denizens of my gaming table might be playing humans, I can see through their veil and know the truth. They are aliens. Aliens playing humans. And sometimes gnomes.

That's because you live in the Seattle area. We locate them there because they blend in with the grunge scene.


Ahhh, but I did not grow up here, nor did I attend college here or receive my military training here. At every one of those stops (in three other locations nation-wide) my gaming table was populated by aliens.

You're just trying to trick me with all that aliens-stored-in-Seattle talk. Probably because you, sir, are also an alien or, worse, an alien PR rep.


YawarFiesta wrote:

I was making numbers and realize that from the icmoics there were:

- 0 Half-Elves
- 1 Dwarf
- 1 Halfling
- 1 Half-orc (relegated to thye APG)
- 2 Gnomes
- 3 Elves
- 10 Humans

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here? Is this coincidence? I don't think so.

We have a bestiary that counts sentinent proud people as monsters. How much are we going to let this regal beings be shuned by the people in Paizo?

My demands are simple, fairness and equallity among the sentient creatures of galarion and no less than 8 new Kobold iconics.

Meet my demands or be prepared to find your offices, houses, cars and/or cofees trapped.

Angrily,
Yawar

There is a reason Kobolds are extinct in my GMs world...

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

My group has a tendency to be 4/6 human. Now that humans get +2 to a stat of your choose they just find the idea of an extra feat really really hard to pass.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
My group has a tendency to be 4/6 human. Now that humans get +2 to a stat of your choose they just find the idea of an extra feat really really hard to pass.

I've ALWAYS found the idea of the extra feat hard to pass up. Unless my character concept is specifically another race, I've always been human since 3.0 onward.

I used to play half-elves mostly in 2nd. I liked getting half the elf abilities with no con minus, and we never really paid attention to demihuman level limits (well, technically we did, but I had a character that had become a deity, and since all my characters after that were decendents, he just used his divine power to waive the limit).

Now that I'm playing Pathfinder, thanks to that free Skill Focus feat, I can definitely see myself playing more half-elves again.


Actually I'm really looking hard at the half orc for the alchemist. The darkvision and bonus weapon proficiencies are nice and the ferocity could be useful too.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Main reason my Alchemist is an elf is the delicious +2 Int, +2 Dex and longbow proficiency so I don't have to use a crossbow, which I think are terrible without feats to back it up. So it's like a weapon proficiency feat and stat bonuses ^^


Which is another fine choice.

The "poorest" choices in my opinion are gnome and half elf.

Shadow Lodge

Hmm.

Gnome: +2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str. +2 to a Craft or Profession, Low-Light Vision

Half-Elf: +2 to any stat, Skill Focus as a bonus feat, Low-Light Vision

Lv1 Alchemist Gnome Stats(10 and 25 point buy)
10 points: Str8(10), Dex16, Con17(15), Int16, Wis10, Cha10(8)
25 points: Str8(10), Dex14, Con14(12), Int14, Wis10, Cha10(8)

Lv1 Alcheminst Half-Elf Stast(10 and 25 point buy)
10 points: Str10, Dex16(14), Con12, Int14, Wis8, Cha8
25 points: Str10, Dex16, Con14, Int18(16), Wis10, Cha8

Noy sure I agree with you Abraham. I'm off to make a halfling alchemist!


Dragonborn3 wrote:


Noy sure I agree with you Abraham. I'm off to make a halfling alchemist!

You rarely do. ;)

What I'm saying is the bonuses are generally not so hot for the alchemist. he doesn't need the extra bonuses from skill focus and the gnome offers little beyond small size to help out the alchemist.

The dwarf offers better save throws, two worthwhile stat boosts and can carry lots of various equipment as well as having darkvision.

The elf gives two of the bonuses the alchemist is going to want and low light plus weapon abilities.

The half orc gives darkvision a bonus that the alchy can place and weapon proficiencies that are nice in that they are both melee weapons (something the alchy needs good choices for).

Humans are easily enough a good choice.

Halflings give a bonus to save throws and are perceptive but stat wise aren't so hot.

I'm not saying half elves or gnomes make bad alchemist... just that it's not a 'natural' fit for their mechanics.

Shadow Lodge

It is amazing how I can always get you to explain your thoughts. ;)


Dragonborn3 wrote:
It is amazing how I can always get you to explain your thoughts. ;)

It's cause you ask, even if indirectly. I'm happy to share usually if asked.

Shadow Lodge

And for that I am thankful.

Now back to the Iconics... any chance we can get "Monstrous" Iconics in the future? Goblin Sorcerer, Pixie Alchemist, Pseudodragon Barbarian etc?

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

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Joshua J. Frost wrote:
That's the distinction. While the denizens of my gaming table might be playing humans, I can see through their veil and know the truth. They are aliens. Aliens playing humans. And sometimes gnomes.

Ah, so then they'll be playing at identifying more readily with human PCs, and thus you still get the same benefit. A human and an alien perfectly impersonating a human are effectively interchangeable for these purposes.


Joseph Raiten wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
Players tend to be human ...
I'll need you to cite sources on this assertion as I rarely play at a table with humans.

I agree none of the current group I am running are playing humans

but they are actually humans

I rarely play or have players that play human. The more Gnome the better!


Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Ahhh, but I did not grow up here, nor did I attend college here or receive my military training here. At every one of those stops (in three other locations nation-wide) my gaming table was populated by aliens.

You're just trying to trick me with all that aliens-stored-in-Seattle talk. Probably because you, sir, are also an alien or, worse, an alien PR rep.

You found a pair of the sunglasses, didn't you?


Caineach wrote:


There is a reason Kobolds are extinct in my GMs world...

Could you explain me what's the reason?


Heck, I game, and I'm not human. I'm a flesh-eating, vine-bearing legume of dooooooom, nicknamed "The Boot-Knife of Lovingkindness" by my friends and "the gibbering garbanzo" by my foes. So I play a human in the game because I like to roleplay something strange and unusual. I mean, they can't even photosynthesize. How alien can you get?


YawarFiesta wrote:
Caineach wrote:


There is a reason Kobolds are extinct in my GMs world...
Could you explain me what's the reason?

The main city was blown up, sending half the mountain they lived in into the sky with mundane explosives. The rest were hunted and killed with a giant bounty on their heads. This was because the captured and imprsoned the greatest assassin in the world.

1000 years later, the only great worm left, the white dragon Wintersfoire, sad at the loss of kobolds, has devised magic to mutate white dragon eggs to hatch hundreds of Snowbolds. I am playing a ranger with them as my new favorite enemy and hope to elimate them from the earth as well.


Wait, wait, wait... There are two gnomes? Where's the other one?

And I have to admit that I find it hard to swallow the notion of a "multiclass iconic." I mean, I understand that that's what Paizo went with, but it just seems really odd to me to have such a thing. I mean, where does that end? What about a wizard/rogue iconic? Wizard/cleric? Wizard/sorcerer? Rogue/Fighter? The list goes on and on - limiting it to just one seems oddly arbitrary, and including one of the Prestige classes but not the others in the iconic count is also weirdly arbitrary. *shrug* I mean, Selty is cool looking and all, but he'd be so much better as a straight up gish class iconic, especially as he is portrayed as casting magic in his illo, but he's commonly stated up as a 1st level fighter in the first part of an AP, which leads to a tad bit of a disconnect...

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Disciple of Sakura wrote:

Wait, wait, wait... There are two gnomes? Where's the other one?

The iconic summoner is apparently a male gnome.

Dark Archive

i petition more iconics! kobolt, goblin and orc iconics!

Sczarni

I would love to see some bad guy iconic’s, like some big bad guys. Oh and non human

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Disciple of Sakura wrote:
I mean, Selty is cool looking and all, but he'd be so much better as a straight up gish class iconic, especially as he is portrayed as casting magic in his illo, but he's commonly stated up as a 1st level fighter in the first part of an AP, which leads to a tad bit of a disconnect...

Take a look in the Core Rulebook, see which class Selty actually represents. ;)

I'd personally like to see all the core prestige classes get character bios, but I know that's not going to happen.m

northbrb wrote:
I would love to see some bad guy iconic’s, like some big bad guys. Oh and non human

We do, he's on the core of the campaign setting. If you don't know who that lich is, shame on you. ;)

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