Mega Shark vs Giant Octopus: fighters and rogues LIVING TOGETHER ...

[angryscrub]

Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

the only 3.5 material i threw in there was slashing flurry and melee mastery (slashing)

without those 2 it becomes +31/+26+21+16 2d4+47 damage 15-20x2 crit range. but those 2 feats were from one of the few 3.5 books that almost everyone i knew (even online) allowed. the PHB2, deemed the most balanced single splatbook. the complete series was mostly, balanced, redundant or overpowered leaning towards the latter 2. any "Cheese" came from design flaws of certain base classes.
...snip...

it's really not necessary to use any noncore stuff, because pathfinder fighters are already kings of reliable melee damage. the DPR thread makes this pretty clear for anyone who actually wants to look at the math.

what i was trying to get across in this thread is something like:

level 10 half orc fighter that likes to try and hit wizards:

Ability Scores:
STR: 15 (+2) (14 base, +1 level)
DEX: 13 (+1)
CON: 10 (+0)
INT: 18 (+4) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 59.5 HP (10+9d10)

Saving Throws
Fort: +7 Ref: +4 Will: +6 (+7 vs fear)

AC: 20 - Touch 11 Flatfooted 19 (+9 full plate, +1 dex)

Attacks: falchion +16/+11, 2d4+7 dmg (15-20/x2)

Class Abilities:
Weapon Training +2 heavy blades, +1 bows
Armor Training 2
Bravery +3

BAB: +10 CMB: +12 CMD: 23

Feats:
blind fight (fighter bonus)
power attack (fighter bonus)
lunge (fighter bonus)
disruptive (fighter bonus)
step up (fighter bonus)
spell breaker (fighter bonus)
iron will
magical aptitude
improved iron will
critical focus
improved critical

Skills:
7 points per level
perception +11 (+10 ranks, +1 wis)
knowledge arcana +14 (+10 ranks, +4 int)
sense motive +11 (+10 ranks, +1 wis)
spellcraft +18 (+10 ranks, +4 int, +4 magical aptitude)
knowledge history +14 (+10 ranks, +4 int)
UMD +13 (+10 ranks, -1 cha, +4 magical aptitude)
survival +6 (+2 ranks, +1 wis, +3 class skill)
knowledge planes +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)
knowledge religion +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)
knowledge engineering +8 (+1 ranks, +4 int, +3 class skill)
knowledge dungeonneering +8 (+1 ranks, +4 int, +3 class skill)
knowledge geography +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)
knowledge local +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)
knowledge nature +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)
knowledge nobility +5 (+1 ranks, +4 int)

give this character some level appropriate gear like a +3 falchion and you're looking at

v2.03 Full Attack Single Attack
DPR Average 37.13 22.63
Attack +1 3.25 1.63
Damage +1 1.49 0.91
Extra Attack: 22.63

which isn't bad compared to most of the builds in the DPR thread that aren't fighters.

EDIT: fixed the links

[Gark the Goblin]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Only thing I have to say is you win longest thread title ever I think

Obviously you don't remember when I broke the forums.

[L. G. G., C. o. t. 101st G.A.R.]

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

The Ghost is based on Malthus upon whose work was based the eponymous theories of Malthusian catastrophe. He's an interesting figure.

All hail Abadar!

[BYC]

I think the reason rangers don't get the "rangers suck!" threads is because a ranger has a solid base to work from, and when against the favored enemy and favored terrain, become a nightmare to deal with.

Rangers were molded from a fighting class that can handle itself in most situations, and rangers typically can. With an animal companion, with some spells, with good fighting abilities, good skills, a ranger can survive most places.

I haven't really examined the numbers, but I'm guessing although a ranger is weaker than a fighter in DPR, it is not so weak that the numerous other abilities of a ranger makes them at worse, a solid contributor in a party.

The problem is more fighters pretty much HAVE to fight in order to contribute to a party, and other classes don't have to do that to help. On the other hand, rangers probably compares poorly against a druid, so when parties want the nature warrior, druids might be a better choice than rangers.