There were some excessively generous rulings in there, though. Giving the players the surprise round on a monster that was actively stalking them to begin with? That really doesn't make sense. There shouldn't have been a surprise round at all. Rather, it should have been initiative, volley, beast attacks someone, then they probably finish it off. Or, alternately, the beast realizes it's been spotted, gets spooked because it's lost its advantage, turns tail and runs away.
Also, you have to understand that 'challenging' is something of a joke in the CR system. A CR10 creature against a party of four level 10 PCs is defined as 'challenging.' For comparison, a level 10 party member is a CR10 creature. If you have a level 10 party with 5 PCs, and then everyone dogpiles on the Bard, the CR system defines that as a 'challenging' encounter.
And solos are always a crap shoot. A few lucky rolls and they're done, pretty much no matter how badass they are. Generally, expect solos to go down very fast. If a solo can't kill someone or close to it in a single round, it's probably not a threat.
A CR 10 creature vs. a party of four PCs is an "average" encounter, according to pp.397 of the core-rulebook. A level 10 party member is considered a CR9 creature, according to the same book, PC levels=level-1, and NPC levels=level-2. So the example with the Bard is technically an "easy" (APL-1) encounter.
Everything else you say is true though.
Quite a bit also depends on how the home brew creature was constructed. Two different creatures can both meet the guidelines for being a CR10 creature, but one be much more effective against a particular party and in a particular situation than the other.
I remember sicking what amounts to a 12th level fighter as a solo encounter to deal with 4 7th level PC's. he died in one round. the fighter was a cheesed out homebrew race, played suboptimally, he would spring attack/dual strike (complete adventurer, attack with 2 weapons as a standard action) he got killed by a set flank 2wf full attack.
a party of 4 7th level pcs make a solo 12th level fighter look like nothing (not counting his +4 ECL). he would've been ecl 16 but definately not even a CR 8, even with his 240 hit points and DR 5/-.
He had 12 maxed out D10's a 28 constitution and improved toughness. he still died in a little over a round. maybe 2 at most. the pc's were cheesed with 56 point buy, gestalt, and 10th level wealth with +1 ecl waived. now that i think about it, i gave too much power to the pc's.
For comparison, a level 10 party member is a CR10 creature.
CR 9 in Pathfinder, for the record. You subtract 1 from the CR for having PC class levels and 2 for having NPC class levels. A human commoner 3 is CR 1, a human fighter 3 is CR 2.
Fine, three level tens dogpiling on the Bard.
Shuriken: Gestalt characters are generally treated as being higher-level characters than they actually are for their immense power. I believe it's +2 to their effective level when determining ECL. So, given that and the +1 free, that comes out to a party of ECL10 characters going up against a CR 12/11 creature, which isn't all that hard, particularly considering the glaring weaknesses most Fighters have (will saves, particularly).
Fine, three level tens dogpiling on the Bard.
Shuriken: Gestalt characters are generally treated as being higher-level characters than they actually are for their immense power. I believe it's +2 to their effective level when determining ECL. So, given that and the +1 free, that comes out to a party of ECL10 characters going up against a CR 12/11 creature, which isn't all that hard, particularly considering the glaring weaknesses most Fighters have (will saves, particularly).
so they were effectively level 10, would you say being cheesed out in attributes/equipment (56 point buy) counts you as a level higher?
maybe i cannot handle such high power levels. should i have calculated as if they were 10th level pcs? maybe even 11th?
the guy had a level adjusment of 4 and 12 fighter levels (the race was built to be a fighter) i did the spring attack dual strike being afraid of an accidental tpk. man i misjudged that encounter. the session effectively turned into a less than an hour one shot. i guess now, that fighters are not meant as solo boss battles.
Well, the equipment I'd just subsume into being ECL10 in the first place. The high point buy isn't nearly so important, and probably isn't enough to make them the equivalent of level 11 characters at that point. Though I don't know the details. However, as a general rule, a melee solo who can't kill someone (possibly even someone tough) or come very close in a single round isn't tremendously dangerous.
They're sure not martial artists ... not serious ones, anyway.
Aww come on now, even as much as I giggle at JCVD, 'back when' he was actually quite a decent fighter - as evidenced by his early tournament successes.
Anyhow - the CR system is whacky.
There's no way that a single Ogre is a 'challenge' for a group of 4th level players. I doubt the 3rd and 4th characters would even have a creature left to resolve attack on.
They're sure not martial artists ... not serious ones, anyway.Aww come on now, even as much as I giggle at JCVD, 'back when' he was actually quite a decent fighter - as evidenced by his early tournament successes.
Anyhow - the CR system is whacky.
There's no way that a single Ogre is a 'challenge' for a group of 4th level players. I doubt the 3rd and 4th characters would even have a creature left to resolve attack on.
In my experience, a single ogre is a decent few round challenge for a lvl 1-2 party.