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The guide to organized play says I can use 2 prestige points to get a magic item worth 750 gp. like a wand of magic missiles. does this mean I can use more prestige to get larger treasures, like spending 6 prestige points to get a caster level 3 wand of magic missiles?
My understanding is you DO NOT spend the prestige. It is just a point where you can buy items that are not normally accessable. For instance if you have 9 PAs you can buy anything up to 1500gp. The always available items do not count as they can ALWAYS be bought. That includes special material so a +1 adamantine longsword going for 5015gp can be bought but a handy haversack(2000gp) cannot till you get 13 PAs. To make it +2 adamantine longsword(11015gp) though DOES require you to have at least 27 PAs (11750gp. It is a bit strange to me but that is what i have heard as you have to be able to have as many PAs to make the item (like it was from scratch). Now all you have to actually pay is the difference which is 6000gp, though.
Basically, if you have 2 PA, then you can get up to 2 PA of gear or services to have at the beginning of your next module. It does not mean you can get as much as you can afford of anything priced at 2 PA or less.
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I understand that prestige points sets a limit on how expensive an item I can purchase with my gold. I'm specificaly asking about the entry on table 11.1 (Free Purchase of 750 gp) for 2 prestige. I see that it says you may never pool prestige, but that seem to me to be reffering to multiple players pooling prestige.
I see the little note 3 Githzilla is talking about that the table says I can only spend 2 per scenario, but that actually says you can only get a single item at the appropriate cost which could be interpreted as saying you can only get one item per scenario.
There are two ways to read this:
1) once per scenario you can get a 750gp magic item for 2 prestige points like a wand of cure light wounds, but you may never get anything worth more than 750gp this way.
or
2) once per scenario you can get one item at a rate of 2 prestige points for 750gp like spending 12 prestige on a wand of cure moderate wounds.
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I understand that prestige points sets a limit on how expensive an item I can purchase with my gold. I'm specificaly asking about the entry on table 11.1 (Free Purchase of 750 gp) for 2 prestige. I see that it says you may never pool prestige, but that seem to me to be reffering to multiple players pooling prestige.
I see the little note 3 Githzilla is talking about that the table says I can only spend 2 per scenario, but that actually says you can only get a single item at the appropriate cost which could be interpreted as saying you can only get one item per scenario.
There are two ways to read this:
1) once per scenario you can get a 750gp magic item for 2 prestige points like a wand of cure light wounds, but you may never get anything worth more than 750gp this way.or
2) once per scenario you can get one item at a rate of 2 prestige points for 750gp like spending 12 prestige on a wand of cure moderate wounds.
I'm pretty sure it's the first option,
Once per scenario, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate Prestige Award.
But I guess there's nothing stopping you from spending 2 PA each module for 6 modules to get 6 750gp gems and then using those to buy the wand of cure moderate wounds.
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The guide to organized play says I can use 2 prestige points to get a magic item worth 750 gp. like a wand of magic missiles. does this mean I can use more prestige to get larger treasures, like spending 6 prestige points to get a caster level 3 wand of magic missiles?
I totally missed what you were saying, John. I think you cannot spend more prestige to get more valuable stuff, at least at this time. I do however think what Calixymithillian stated is correct. It is a way to earn extra cash but at the expense of your PAs. I for one would like to save mine for a rainy day to get raised but that is just me o:
There seems to be several different confusions at work here. I'll attempt to clarify.
In table 11.1 it says, "(3)Once per scenario, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate Prestige Award."
The (3) is attached to "Free purchase 750 gp (3) 2 PA."
So that means exactly what it says: once per scenario you can spend 2 PA to buy any single item of 750 gp or less. That also means that you've reduced your pool of available PA for things like raise dead, greater restoration, and so on. PA is tracked much like hit points--you have a maximum total and a current total. If you played six scenarios, earning the maximum of 2 PA per scenario, your current maximum total would be 12. If you then spent 2 PA on a 750 gp item, your maximum total would still be 12, but your current total would be 10. If you then played another scenario, earning 2 additional PA, both scores would increase by 2--14 maximum PA, 12 current total. Unlike hit points though, once you've spent PA, your current total can never increase to match your maximum--those points are gone forever.
Pooling prestige award refers to sharing your PA with another player. Verboten.
Nowhere in any of this does it allow for you to scale PA up and spend your PA to buy items that cost more than 750 gp. If this were allowed, there would be an entry for it on table 11.1.
PA, specifically your current maximum PA, is also the benchmark for purchasing items (table 11.2). Using the above example, if you had 12 PA after six scenarios you could buy anything with a cost of 1,500 gp or less with your own gold pieces and not with PA.
The guide to organized play says I can use 2 prestige points to get a magic item worth 750 gp. like a wand of magic missiles. does this mean I can use more prestige to get larger treasures, like spending 6 prestige points to get a caster level 3 wand of magic missiles?
Alright, after seeing the other replies I went back and read over the rules again about this and now I know what you are asking. I am pretty sure the answer is no, because there is no choice on the chart higher than the one for using 2 PA to get a free item worth up to 750 gp. Basically, if it is not on that chart then it is not a legal use for your PA.
Edit: Ninja'd while I was looking at the rules one last time before hitting post. lol
PA works two ways. The first way sets the gp limit on the cost of anything you buy for your character with the gold the character has earned. The second way uses the PA itself to purchase one of the benefits from table 11.1, and if you choose either of the item choices, then that item belongs to your character for good. When it says "once per scenario" it does not meant you only get to use the item for one scenario, it means that once per scenario you can get a free item from your faction if you want to spend the PA to get it. Let's say you play 5 scenarios and get 2 PA each time and at the beginning of each following scenario you spent that 2 PA on the free item. At the beginning of the 6th scenario you would still have those previous four items you spent your PA to acquire plus the one you just bought, assuming nothing happened to those items during the previous scenarios.
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Can I get a little further clarification on this? The first time I played a PFS game, I asked about the spending two prestiege to get a free 750 magic item (like a CLW wand). I was told that I could do this, but it was a "loaner" for the module. I didn't get to keep the wand at the end of the scenario. Is this correct, or is the intent that you actually do get to purchase the wand (or whatever you buy) and keep it for future modules with the two prestiege points?
You get to keep the wand you purchased with your 2 prestige points.
Someone is mixing the way items could be borrowed in Season 0 (which is no longer a rule) with the way you spend PA now. Yes, you spend 2 PA to permanently acquire any single item costing 750 gp or less.
Yes.
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Yes.
Did I miss something somewhere? It didn't look to me as though a wand of Cure Light Wounds would be purchasable until you reached 9 PA, since I didn't see it listed in the always available items.
I would love it if it was, since it woudl let me use my measley two first level Cleric spells for other spells...
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Yes.Did I miss something somewhere? It didn't look to me as though a wand of Cure Light Wounds would be purchasable until you reached 9 PA, since I didn't see it listed in the always available items.
I would love it if it was, since it woudl let me use my measley two first level Cleric spells for other spells...
You can't buy it with gold until you find it on a chronicle sheet, or reach 9PA, but when you buy items with prestige points you can get any item up to 750gp for 2PA, or any item worth up to 150gp for 1PA.
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The only way to get money out of spending PA is to buy something worth exactly 750 gp and then sell it for 375. Not much, but it is very substantial at early levels. Plus, you aren't going to spend PA on much else besides level drain which you won't start seeing till higher levels. Why save it for resurection when you can be buying items to keep you alive?
Personally, I like purchasing a wand or scroll before an adventure that may be useful under dire circumstances. If I'm not forced to use it, then I simply sell the item at the end of the adventure.
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You can't buy it with gold until you find it on a chronicle sheet, or reach 9PA, but when you buy items with prestige points you can get any item up to 750gp for 2PA, or any item worth up to 150gp for 1PA.Yes.Did I miss something somewhere? It didn't look to me as though a wand of Cure Light Wounds would be purchasable until you reached 9 PA, since I didn't see it listed in the always available items.
I would love it if it was, since it woudl let me use my measley two first level Cleric spells for other spells...
There any documentation on that? Maybe I am just reading it wrong, but I thought that the 2 PA purchase would only be for items you could purchase by gold, as well...
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There any documentation on that? Maybe I am just reading it wrong, but I thought that the 2 PA purchase would only be for items you could purchase by gold, as well...
I don't think it's documented beyond the guide saying "any single item" rather than "and single item you have access to", and Josh confirming it above.
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There any documentation on that? Maybe I am just reading it wrong, but I thought that the 2 PA purchase would only be for items you could purchase by gold, as well...I don't think it's documented beyond the guide saying "any single item" rather than "and single item you have access to", and Josh confirming it above.
Calixymenthillian is correct. You can use your PA points to make free purchases per table 11.1 as soon as you have the PA to spend. Those purchases are not limited by the item purchase limitations on table 11.2, for which you are spending your own gold. I hope that helps.
The intent is to use PA to purchase magic items or equipment. You cannot purchase art objects or gems.
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The intent is to use PA to purchase magic items or equipment. You cannot purchase art objects or gems.
Aww! Never mind, I've been paranoid and saved all of my PA for emergency raise deads anyway.
Just to be sure though, we are allowed to buy those things with gold, right? (My Taldan sorcerer keeps most of his spare wealth in the form of costume accessories.)
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Yoda
I just wondered because the thought came up as I was doing my build.
Besides, I just created a build without the last 7400 gp I needed, so prepared to be destroyed el Rakasta, I've got a blessed crossbow bolt with your name on it. ;p
Please do not pull punches, rock us, quite excited !!
Actually on topic, the 12 lvl PC I built from scratch is about 3000+ gp short if my 11.1 character, that's even before counting consumables or spell book purchases my actual chracter used up ... what gives?? I guess maybe day job rolls or some generous PFS rewards ?
I'm fine with farming faction points for gold. I am kind of curious, though...
Why are there so stringent guidelines for day job? The reasoning being: that allowing an extra 10-25 gold, per mod, would turn the in-game monetary system on its ear. While, someone who farms their faction points for gold can earn an extra 75 or 375 gold (depending on if they get one or 2 faction points) per mod? This seems odd.
Is this because it is harder to police Faction point farming? Or is it because only people who put ranks in to a trade skill can get the day job roll so there is not a universal roll?
Just curious.
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I'm fine with farming faction points for gold. I am kind of curious, though...
Why are there so stringent guidelines for day job? The reasoning being: that allowing an extra 10-25 gold, per mod, would turn the in-game monetary system on its ear. While, someone who farms their faction points for gold can earn an extra 75 or 375 gold (depending on if they get one or 2 faction points) per mod? This seems odd.
Is this because it is harder to police Faction point farming? Or is it because only people who put ranks in to a trade skill can get the day job roll so there is not a universal roll?
Just curious.
Rather than bring this discussion up again in this thread, click the link below. I think it will answer your question.
Rather than bring this discussion up again in this thread, click the link below. I think it will answer your question.
This thread only emphasizes my point. If the reason for not allowing more liberal Day Job rolls is because of the Module Gold Cap... Why allow someone to, essentially, "trade in" 2 Faction points for 375 gold? Thus exceeding the cap by 375 gold!
Because, what is suggested in this thread previously is: “Hey use 2 of your faction points to buy a 750gp item then sell that item for 375!”
Or am I missing something?
Sigh... I not arguing Day Job... I should have never used it as a point of argument…
If I bought a headband of Intellect +2 three mods ago I can sell it this mod for 2k (I assume). That is separate from the mod "gold cap."
By this standard, hypothetically, you can buy (say) a CLW Wand with 2 Faction Points and sell it the next mod for 375. Which is what is suggested up-thread.
Though a different mechanic, it is supplementing your gold by 375 each module. I just want to know, if this is correct, why is this okay?
Buying items with PA and then selling them right back for 50% is against the intent of the system and I'm going to need to correct that. I provided that method so that players could gain earlier access to wands of cure light wounds to sustain survivability in the low levels. If your faction says, "here's a reward for your hard work!" and hands you a wand of cure light wounds (that you wanted) and you say, "thanks!" and then sell it ... well ... that's a little insulting to the faction, methinks.
2.2 will have adjusted language re: this.
Buying items with PA and then selling them right back for 50% is against the intent of the system and I'm going to need to correct that. I provided that method so that players could gain earlier access to wands of cure light wounds to sustain survivability in the low levels. If your faction says, "here's a reward for your hard work!" and hands you a wand of cure light wounds (that you wanted) and you say, "thanks!" and then sell it ... well ... that's a little insulting to the faction, methinks.
2.2 will have adjusted language re: this.
Something simple like: Only items purchased with gold may be resold?
Buying items with PA and then selling them right back for 50% is against the intent of the system and I'm going to need to correct that. I provided that method so that players could gain earlier access to wands of cure light wounds to sustain survivability in the low levels. If your faction says, "here's a reward for your hard work!" and hands you a wand of cure light wounds (that you wanted) and you say, "thanks!" and then sell it ... well ... that's a little insulting to the faction, methinks.
2.2 will have adjusted language re: this.
Thank you for the clarification!
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Buying items with PA and then selling them right back for 50% is against the intent of the system and I'm going to need to correct that...
Thank you Josh. And I actually fully support the sentiment of that rule. Again I have never seen this in practice, I just came as an afterthought as we were building up characters from scratch.
In my actual PFS games the few times I used PA it was always to shore up my scroll purchases to add to my spellbook so I would have more spells available for my bonded item's once a day casting.
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Well if you can't get extra gold then honestly what is the point of gaining prestige points? For the amount of work players get done in a given scenario, they are rewarded a measly amount from the Pathfinder Society. I would think that since some of the faction missions go behind the society's back, the player would need some sort of incentive rather than an occasional spell. The first reply all the players I suggest spending two prestige points to gain 375 gp is "well what about saving for a resurrection?".
First, spending PA on a resurrection is somewhere around 33 points. Assuming that each scenario the player partook in was worth 2 PA AND he got all the PA awarded everytime, that means he must horde PA for 17 scenarios at least before he has any reason to spend them. This translates into 5 levels of achieving maximum PA and scenarios awarding 2 PA everytime.
Some might argue that he will spend PA before hitting 33 points which I believe is only plausible in the case of level drain. Level drain only comes at higher levels so a character who is worried about death could save for 17 adventures and reach level 5 with a free ressurection under his belt.
For his entire progression from level 1 - 5 his PA use is stagnant! That seems like a terrible game mechanic to me. Why should a player have to go through 5 levels of work for their faction just to obtain a simple resurrection? Why have such an integral part of the Pathfinder Society (something that separates it from other living campaigns) lie dormant for so long for such a simple thing? But you might say that your character is being brought back from the dead and it's no simple task. Well, sorry this is fantasy and unfortunately in Dungeons and Dragons it is a very simple task.
Now, consider the player who is spending his PA for a constant flow of gold from his faction. He is feeling rewarded for his accomplishments and the faction is giving him gold to equip himself so that he DOESN'T die and they don't have to worry about resurrecting him. PA points don't stay stagnant, they are an active part of the game and give a sense of realism that the player is being rewarded for his accomplishments, not simply building an "I owe you" list with his faction.
Josh, if your intention for PA is that your faction supplies you with items and services rather than gold, then we have sort of a predicament. I could say you could tweak the PA system to give higher priced items for PA, say 6 PA = 3,000 gp item and give no selling value for faction granted items. However, this would still cause players to horde PA so they could get a really cool item.
I would suggest you just leave the system as is and simply make clear that PA may not be spent on trade goods. Players should have the option to take an item and sell it if they want the 375 gp.
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Josh, in order to satisfy more players and have faction rewards scale better while retaining PFS control I suggest another option.
How about letting individual scenarios have tier dependant PA reward options in addition to the normal tier based treasure system.
I.e. a player completing scenario X at tier 1-2 might get items a, b, c. Become available for 150gp, 200gp and 225gp respectively.
In addition item c might have an alternate PA cost of 1PA which can be paid in stead of the 200gp.
Aside from items a, b, c, there is an item d available at 2PA(only) and a special service available at 1PA(only).
For tiers 3-4 and 6-7 aditional PA rewards might be available with power and prices (gold as well as PA) that scale to the appropiate level of play.
These PA reward options would only be available through chronicle sheets and after 3 scenarios would thus become unavailable. This should not substitute the curent PA rewards system but be an addition to it. It would create a greater paralel between gold and PA and would make them more readily available, thereby making it easier for players to identify the actual worth of PA and the completion of faction missinons.
I imagine these special scenario PA rewards would include items and services that are not normaly available to purchase. I.e. custom items, favors, special hirelings etc.
I hope you can use this suggestion or at least gey inspired by it to take OP one step further.
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Grandfather's suggestion is a good one albeit it is pretty much an overhaul of the PA system. The use of PA is a neat function but if you simply have it for one time spells or little trinkets it seems pretty useless and ineffective. Unfortunately I didn't know of the Pathfinder Society during it's earlier days but from conversations with Doug didn't the society used to implement a system similar to what the Grandfather was suggesting?
Adding PA awards to each scenario will increase the player's powers substantially and take a little bit of playtesting to fully hash out. But if you're trying to make the whole idea of factions believable and actually useful then it will be well worth the trouble. The only reason I want to acquire prestige points is to increase the restriction on my gold purchases.
Pretty much a different debate but that's another beef I have with the current PA system. Why should it dictate the maximum item cost you're allowed to purchase? Aren't we members of the Pathfinder Society FIRST and factions SECOND? Shouldn't our success with the Society mean something in terms of how much of their enormous batch of artifacts they let us acquire? What's to stop players from traveling to a city and purchasing magic items there?
I understand the PA system is used to keep player character's balanced and I actually like this. Again, it prevents player's from hording gold to buy some extremely powerful item early on and gives the campaign a low magic feel but from a roleplaying standpoint it doesn't make much sense.
Do I feel a Prestige Award overhaul thread coming on? ;)
I have no interest in changing the prestige system especially considering that the rules language for it has been adopted whole-hog into the Pathfinder Chronicles Faction Guide.
Your character in Pathfinder Society has plenty of opportunities to gain gold commensurate with his appropriate gear value by level on page 399 of the Core Rulebook. If I were to allow the prestige system, which I developed to give you additional disposable items at low level to increase survivability, to give you *extra* gold beyond the curve established on page 399, I would in essence be allowing you to be more powerful than your CR. Your CR is balanced by your gear level and if you have extra money and gear, you're going to be "off balance" as it were and I'm not going to be able to design or develop scenarios appropriate to your level that challenge you. Everything will be a cake walk.
Your faction allows you to buy gear from them, allows you to receive spellcasting services (well beyond just a resurrection), and sets the level at which you can purchase items. Though you disagree, I feel that's a solid system.
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Well, resurrection and level drain are the only thing worth spending PA. Besides of course various wands and the soon to be obsolete method of selling them. Faction awards are a pretty unique element to the pathfinder society and when I first began play I it made the experience fresh. However, as I have played more scenarios they have become tedious and I notice many players just want to get them out of the way. There isn't much advantage to completing them other than having your level raised. Not endorcing PvP but since it isn't allowed faction missions have kind of lost their luster. You know that missions should never conflict (and with no PvP this is rightly so). So what's the point in keeping them a secret and breaking party unity? I'm not looking for a PA overhaul because I know that isn't an economic solution, just stating how I feel on the issue. Does it ruin my Pathfinder experience? Not at all, I still have a blast everytime we play.
As for making challenges too easy, items are only one component. Our party has tierd up since level 1 and that had nothing to do with items. Many of our encounters are won through non-combat ingenuity and role playing. With the current cap on gold due to PA, an item can only enhance a character not break him. In Pathfinder Society, due to its PA system the main thing that overpowers a character is his build, not his items. Personally, I enjoy the fact that Pathfinder is low on magic items because it forces a player to spend his resources wisely and scrounge materials.
Say the player in the above example takes his 33 points saved for ressurection and instead spends them on wands which he sells. That will give him an extra 6000gp. That is one extra item at the peril of not being able to ressurect himself (unless he raises money by selling 50% of gear). If the player hadn't been selling his wands but actually keeping them, then his character wealth is actually 12,000 gp over the supposed character wealth per level. So selling them makes the player closer to his wealth per level...
Our party has tierd up since level 1 and that had nothing to do with items.
To be clear that I understand what you're saying here, you choose to play up a tier always? Because Society games don't allow for that. Individuals can only play up or down when it's the only way to legally make a table. Groups, tables, sessions, etc normally have to calculate APL and play the appropriate sub-Tier. So, even at level 1, if you were a table of 6 level 1 characters, your APL is still 2 and that means you still need to play sub-Tier 1-2. You can't choose to play up.
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I have no interest in changing the prestige system especially considering that the rules language for it has been adopted whole-hog into the Pathfinder Chronicles Faction Guide.
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And I am not suggesting that... not that extensively any way.
Reading this thread I was just of the impresion that many of the posters feel they can either buy wands or get resurected with PA.
I think the PA idea is great and hate for people to think it is something they cannot use or benefit from.
Personally I think throwing in some extra scenario dependant special services or maybe even using PA to handle an in-game challenge might be a cool twist that will make the above mentioned players feel that PA is actually useful in a very concrete way, without unbalancing the game.
It was only intended as food for thought.