Challenge ratings over course of a level


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hey there, designers of encounters-

In Pathfinder, roughly what proportion of encounters do you recommend to be:
•average party level -1,
•average party level,
•average party level +1,
•average party level +2, and
•average party level +3?

I'm looking for a rule of thumb.
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In my first draft of this adventure, for the first 8,000 XP I've got:

Lvl 1 Encounters:

Level 1: The City

Missions: Find the stash of Cold Iron weapons and deliver them to the keep
Free the prisoners in the jail, give them each a weapon and wish them luck

CR (< 3) XP (8,030 total)

Combat:
1 470 Looters: 2 Tough Looters* + 1 Tiefling Rogue
2 600 Single Dretch
2 600 3 Zombies: reanimated town guards
2 600 Vargouille Woman begs for death, attacks, head becomes varg.
3 800 2 Dretch, one is already wounded
3 800 Nabasu Creates 2 Ghouls, casts Deeper Darkness at PCs, departs
3 800 Quasit with a wand of Animate Dead. Animates max 4 zombies, leaves

Hazards/Traps/Problem Solving:
1 400 Caught in Panicking Crowd
1 400 Runaway horse/carriage (Handle Animal)
1 400 Vrocks dump severed heads on party from on high
2 600 Avoid/Flee obviously overwhelming force (12 Dretch lead by Quasit)
2 600 Rescue elderly man from burning building

Non Hit Point encounters:
Accosted by end-of-world declarers
Frightened Townsfolk asking for help or advice
Laughing liquor merchant handing out bottles of spirits
Dead City Defenders- Fallen Owl Riders
Witness Suicide
Abandoned carts of goods
Witness Bucket brigade
1/3 100 Wounded Soldiers falling back to the keep, 1 needs to be stabilized
1 400 Convince Guards to let PCs pass through to the keep
2 600 Convince guard captain not to drag PCs off to defend the wall
(the PCs’ mission takes precedence)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

It's less about proportion and more about pacing. Level +3 encounters (or level +2 encounters at level 1) are pretty brutal, and should be set-piece fights most of the time. Give the party a day of lighter fights or no other fights if you're going to throw them into those challenges.

To use your list of encounters, it might be worth it to chill out the EL 3s and work in a CR 3 set-piece challenge or two.


A Man In Black wrote:
It's less about proportion and more about pacing.

Good point; three APL+2 encounters over the course of three days would be cake, while three APL+2 encounters in the same day would be deadly.

Not sure what you mean by "set pieces." Do you just mean encounters featuring rich environments, detailed NPC tactics, and dramatic touches? Do you mean specifically that there are plot cues that the encounter will be pivotal? Or do you specifically mean that PCs will have a chance to prepare (buff, summon, and whatnot)?


The APs tend to include more APL+1 encounters then APL+0 encounters, as far as I can see. I think that's a good thing. In fact, for my style, I would argue that APL+0 should be considerably less frequent than >APL or <APL, just because it doesn't make sense to me that the world would consistently throw appropriate challenges at the players.

One approach might be to distribute a set number of encounters throughout the campaign world (or plot track) at each APL. Therefor if the plot arc goes to 12th level, there might be a CR 12 encounter that is accessible to a first level party if they want to go and get killed by it.

Wacky theories aside, I find that too many APL+0 encounters makes for a very dull game. <APL encounters should occur, but infrequently (or rather, they shouldn't be a necessary obstacle) just to let the players know they're getting better, but the majority of encounters ought to be APL+1 to APL +3, with the occasional APL +4 or more so that they have to run away. Forcing the players to flee 1/10 of the time is a good thing.


Evil Lincoln wrote:

sandbox play...

variety of encounter level...
occasional need to flee...

I agree 100%. Too bad you don't live/game in southern New Hampshire!

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