He's not the only one. Once I've got my copy read and analyzed I'll be writing a review as well. Do you have this product up at the paizo shop (and if you do could you link it for me?)
I'm more comfortable here, and I'd like to give the Paizo people a review. If you want I'd be happy to review over there as well, (or simply transfer my review to it lol) but like I said, not my ideal target audience lol.
Yep, it's here. I just don't know how to give out free copies from the Paizo site:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8bns
Hyrum.
I always wanted a nonspellcasting assassin.
It has always been in the core rules. It's called "rogue". Or "fighter"....
You know, a Ranger with favored enemy: Humanoid (human, elf, dwarf, ...) has long struck me as somewhat assassiny.
It all depends on your fighting style - and whether you take commissions to kill people for money.
I have a couple of issues with the assassin. The rogue gets a much better death attack at level 20, which doesn't require the studying of the opponent for three rounds gibberish. Shouldn't the assassin be the best at, you know, assassinating?
Also, a lot of the assassin's features seem rather redundant. Does it really need a +5 on its saving throws against poison? And how sure do you really need to be that your opponent is not going to be resurrected? Isn't turning him into dust just a bit extreme and does it really need to be its capstone ability?
If I were to houserule the assassin, I'd make the following changes:
- Whenever he gains a +1 on saving throws vs. poison, he also gains +1 on the DC of poisons he uses against his enemies. This would give him the niche of being the best poisoner in the game.
- The level 9 ability Swift Death is not usable only once per day, but rather just applies all the time.
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A 75% chance of a character dropping dead instantly seems to low? Save or Die only seems like a good idea when it's the other guy who is doing it. When it happens to a beloved PC it's not nearly so much fun.Not to mention the obscenely low Death Attack DC. Using 3 rounds to study the target, set up a sneak attack without the enemy recognizing a threat, and having them save (@ level 10, Assuming Int 14-17) against a DC 17 or 18 Fort save (10+5 Assn lvl+2 or 3 Int) is ludicrous. A melee character at the same level will save more than 50% of the time (+7 Fort+2 or 3 Con+9 or higher on 1d20), while even a low Fort save class like the wizard has a 25% chance of surviving (+3 Fort+15 or higher on 1d20).
If you compare the Death Attack DC to that of a spellcaster they're comparable. However, while you're wasting 3 rounds studying your target, a 10th level wizard is casting Cloudkill, Transmute Rock to Mud, and transforming into a Plant or Elemental, before casting Phantasmal Killer, essentially duplicating the Death Attack (only 1 action and an extra will save) at a slightly higher DC (primary stat assumed to be higher, availability of DC boosting feats, possibly Gnome).
I'd argue either the DC be boosted or the time spent studying your target drop to one round.
But, as KaeYoss said, you don't need to be an 'Assassin' to be an assassin.
And how sure do you really need to be that your opponent is not going to be resurrected? Isn't turning him into dust just a bit extreme
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However, while you're wasting 3 rounds studying your target, a 10th level wizard is casting Cloudkill, Transmute Rock to Mud, and transforming into a Plant or Elemental
The difference is that the assassin isn't detected. He can study in peace. The wizard will be attacked.
But, as KaeYoss said, you don't need to be an 'Assassin' to be an assassin.
Yeah, listen to that KaeYoss guy, he sounds real smart. :)
A 75% chance of a character dropping dead instantly seems to low? Save or Die only seems like a good idea when it's the other guy who is doing it. When it happens to a beloved PC it's not nearly so much fun.Having a look though is the assassin a little under done?Not to mention the obscenely low Death Attack DC. Using 3 rounds to study the target, set up a sneak attack without the enemy recognizing a threat, and having them save (@ level 10, Assuming Int 14-17) against a DC 17 or 18 Fort save (10+5 Assn lvl+2 or 3 Int) is ludicrous. A melee character at the same level will save more than 50% of the time (+7 Fort+2 or 3 Con+9 or higher on 1d20), while even a low Fort save class like the wizard has a 25% chance of surviving (+3 Fort+15 or higher on 1d20).
And after level 15, forget it!
I usually houserule the "Assassin's class level" bit to be a bit like the Tome of Battle... "Assassin's class level +1/2 his other class levels."
It does, because of the other mitigating factors. Especially in a party scenario that's probably 4+ stealth v. perception checks, 3 rounds of observation, then getting in close enough for a sneak attack (at least 30 feet assuming you're using a crossbow) then there's hitting, and doing damage (the target might be resistant to crits) and then they get a save. and that's vs. an opponent with an absolutely ABYSSMAL fort save. its a really weak ability.
Assassins are really more of PrC for the DM to use against the players. It's not that its a bad class, but its mean ability is not optimal for a party, however when ambushing a party... :).
I just think that all these suggestions to increase the lethality of the Assassin's death attack are things that would make PCs howl if they were used against them.
Because they're talking about playing an assassin in an adventuring party
Well, some concepts just don't lend themselves to an adventuring party.
The traditional assassin doesn't run around screaming bloody murder, a guy in full plate and another with an unhealthy fascination with deadly fireworks in tow, not to mention that guy who cannot shut up about how cool his deity is. (Clerics are the Apple fans of character classes).
But if we're at it: I want a hermit PrC that allows me to run around in cities and the whole wide world :P
I just think that all these suggestions to increase the lethality of the Assassin's death attack are things that would make PCs howl if they were used against them.
Oh yeah.
It's a fun little game I play with my players: They suggest some weird stuff, I smile at them, say "Sure! Just let me rebuild those NPCs here" and they back-pedal faster than the Australian Backwards Running Ostrich.
Fun times.
Like when one character hit by firestorm would continue shooting instead of dousing the flames, and one player suggested that the arrows should be flaming arrows now. I thought about it a moment, and then my face lit up and I was telling them about their very astute observation, since those arrows will probably be cinders by now!
As for assassins: I'm save from more powerful assassins, since I already killed a character with one. They won't come and beg me to make them stronger. }>
I did not forget about my review on the PDF. I will try to do it by Tuesday. The first one anyway.
the Australian Backwards Running Ostrich.
Good eatin'.
Good eatin'.the Australian Backwards Running Ostrich.
Not so good going the other way.
Assassins bother me as an NPC class as well.
Given their nature, a PC might experience an encounter with an Assassin thus:
DM: Make a fortitude save.
Player: 15.
DM: You die and turn to dust.
A more entertaining encounter with an assassin would be one where the assassin is being played ineffectively, deliberately so that the players have something to do.
That said, it's not the class itself that I have trouble with, but with 'bolt from the blue' deaths in general.
That said, it's not the class itself that I have trouble with, but with 'bolt from the blue' deaths in general.
Well, those are from assassins. Could be worse. Could be a shock-frozen cow that drops onto your head. :D
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Our Shadow Assassin base class does just about what everyone is talking about. Here's a link to the description:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8bns
I'll also send the first few people to ask for one a free copy so they can look it over.
Hyrum.
I bought it and liked it. It kinda has a feel of more of a special cult of assassins though, like the Red Mantis with their focus on shadow powers.
I bought it and liked it. It kinda has a feel of more of a special cult of assassins though, like the Red Mantis with their focus on shadow powers.Our Shadow Assassin base class does just about what everyone is talking about. Here's a link to the description:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8bns
I'll also send the first few people to ask for one a free copy so they can look it over.
Hyrum.
I like the idea of different "asassin cults," since it reflects real history. There were the "original" assassins, the ninjas, etc.
As NPCs, assassins of different stripes can keep the players guessing. The Mantis assassins vs. core assassins, plus a few more variants, can add a lot of flavor and keep PCs from saying "Oh, another assassin! Well, we've dealt with them before. You just.."
...only to find that this guy isn't quite like the last one, and just disappeared (or whatever).
Granted, anyone can kill for filthy lucre. The idea of various secret cults zealously dedicated to murder-for-hire (or some darker motivation), and doing it all a little differently is just too fun to ignore!
I like PrCs just because DMs can use them and don't have to work too hard to come up with nicely varied opponents. Most PF players can be happy with a straight class, but options are always nice.
A wizard 3/rogue 7/assassin 10 on the other hand gets a fine mix of abilities, will likely have higher Death Attack DCs, doesn't lose much in the way of sneak attack (2d6 maybe), and fits the "magical assassin" archetype rather well. Said assassin can also make tons of scrolls for himself or for others or put his familiar to good use as a spy or lookout.
Actually, the bonded object might work better. As far as I can tell, he could make his weapon his bonded object and be able to enchant it however he wants with some money and a skill check.
Maybe make his own Assassin's Dagger, for example, without having to rely on someone else to make it for him. Not having the slay living spell simply means a +5 to the skill check.
Plus, it's an extra spell cast per day.