w0nkothesane
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| Saradoc |
w0nkothesane
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What I'd like to see, and hopefully we will see sometime, is a compilation volume.
It could feature prestige classes, magic and mundane items, feats, spells...basically the kinds of things you see in the Dragon Magazine Compendium, but with Pathfinder stuff.
I'd be willing to pay a pretty penny to have all the stuff they've put out just in the AP's compiled into a hardbound book. I understand that that eliminates part of the need for some people to buy the older APs...but I intend to get every volume, even though some (Pathfinder #1) are pretty difficult to get.
To me it's the convenience of having them all there and not having to dig through 15 different softcover books to find what I want.
| kyrt-ryder |
Swiss cheese...Looks rather nice and filling on the outside, but when you start cutting into it, you find it's full of holes? Don't know how that applies, but it seems like a reasonable explanation.
I know what it means lol, though I do appreciate the explanation.
I was just hoping he'd tell me what the cheesy aspect is he was referring to. I've played extensively with the magic item compendium and it's been a great addition to my campaigns. Sure some of the items are a little weak but that's what houseruling is for.
| Rezdave |
Sure some of the items are a little weak but that's what houseruling is for.
I've not used it, except 2 items a recent Player pitched to me for consideration.
From what I've read on these forums, the general feeling is that MIC is over-powered and/or under-priced. I found this to be the case with both items I was shown, and these were still relatively low-level.
I did read a couple others on the same/adjacent pages, and found some "cheesy" in a "cinematic-campy-pulp-B-movie" kind of way.
FWIW,
Rez
| wraithstrike |
I think the issue is that many of the DMG and items from other books were overpriced. There was no way I would ever buy a ring of invisibility or a ring of evasion. The wizard robe that give an AC bonus is something else I would never buy. The Spell Resistance items were also way overpriced. I am sure there were others also.
Ok, so a few items from the MiC may be too good, but overall its a good book.
| kyrt-ryder |
kyrt-ryder wrote:Sure some of the items are a little weak but that's what houseruling is for.I've not used it, except 2 items a recent Player pitched to me for consideration.
From what I've read on these forums, the general feeling is that MIC is over-powered and/or under-priced. I found this to be the case with both items I was shown, and these were still relatively low-level.
I did read a couple others on the same/adjacent pages, and found some "cheesy" in a "cinematic-campy-pulp-B-movie" kind of way.
FWIW,
Rez
If you read the sidebars in the book, you would know that the items were intentionally underpriced to make them worth purchasing.
The book was designed to spice up the game, to get people buying things that are more interesting than the bog standard ability enhancers and magic weapons and armor.
If you want my opinion it was a brilliant piece of work, and I wish WotC made more material like that.
Gorbacz
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MiC is one of the best WotC books in the 3.5 run. The items are cool, thematic and not broken (maybe except the Healing Belt being too cheap and Belt of Battle being too good).
There are dozens of fun, nice items that help to break the dreaded "christmas tree" syndrome.
The "how to handle magic items" section is pure gold, with several rules/ideas/tables that really should have been in the DMG. Including revised treasure generation tables, which rock.
Out of the three Compendium books, MiC is a clear winner - it's the Spell Compendium that's guilty of smelling of old cheese, while the Rules Compendium is a classic case of too little, too late.
| Saradoc |
MiC is one of the best WotC books in the 3.5 run. The items are cool, thematic and not broken (maybe except the Healing Belt being too cheap and Belt of Battle being too good).
There are dozens of fun, nice items that help to break the dreaded "christmas tree" syndrome.
The "how to handle magic items" section is pure gold, with several rules/ideas/tables that really should have been in the DMG. Including revised treasure generation tables, which rock.
Out of the three Compendium books, MiC is a clear winner - it's the Spell Compendium that's guilty of smelling of old cheese, while the Rules Compendium is a classic case of too little, too late.
Oh no, I agree with this assessment - that enhancement chart on the prices for adding bonuses I introduced the other week to a group of new gamers with me. It's possibly the best reference sheet out there. The swiss cheese can be seen in the totally broken belt of battle, which I don't want to go into here (I had a whole thread on that a few weeks ago), but many items are good. Swiss cheese means that there are holes in the book, but truly that's the case of all books. My point is that I am looking for a hardbound PF version (not one of these skinny perfect bound booklets per the Chronicles subscription).
| KaeYoss |
They might do compilation hardcovers (which I'm sure would be over 100 pages) somewhere down the road, as Pathfinder RPG items, but the question is: Are they more important than books like Psionics, Epic Levels, Oriental Adventures, Optional Rules, Monsters as PCs and all the other stuff they might want to do in that line?
Remember that the PFRPG will only get 3-4 books a year, and one of those will probably always be a Bestiary (because people just cannot get enough monsters, me included), and some of those books I mentioned are awaited eagerly!
I think the issue is that many of the DMG and items from other books were overpriced. There was no way I would ever buy a ring of invisibility or a ring of evasion.
I would, and have.
| kyrt-ryder |
I'll say that the two items that make me leery are the Belt of Battle, and the Heartseeker Amulet (which I've outright banned in my games).
Mind explaining why you've banned them in your games? Please give detailed answers (not that you necessarily wouldn't but some posters tend to post things like "because that's broken!" or "Because it's way underpriced!" and such things don't really contribute anything to the discussion.)
| Cydeth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
The belt hasn't been banned, since I don't have too much of a problem with it. The problem I have is with the Heartseeker Amulet. As a 3/day item that can be activated as a swift action and lets your next melee attack be made as a Touch Attack, I can't see why they priced it as low as they did. I don't remember the exact price, and my books are halfway across the state so I can't check it, but I think it was about 3000 or 5000 gp. Either way, I consider that at least 5000 gp too cheap for such a potent effect. Especially when I see players discussing getting two or three of them to switch out after combats.
Edit: Also, work out the math on a Quickened True Strike, which is effectively what it is. The result I got was 48,600 gp, a lot more than the Heartseeker Amulet. When you can get it that much earlier in the game, I have issues with it.
| kyrt-ryder |
The belt hasn't been banned, since I don't have too much of a problem with it. The problem I have is with the Heartseeker Amulet. As a 3/day item that can be activated as a swift action and lets your next melee attack be made as a Touch Attack, I can't see why they priced it as low as they did. I don't remember the exact price, and my books are halfway across the state so I can't check it, but I think it was about 3000 or 5000 gp. Either way, I consider that at least 5000 gp too cheap for such a potent effect. Especially when I see players discussing getting two or three of them to switch out after combats.
Edit: Also, work out the math on a Quickened True Strike, which is effectively what it is. The result I got was 48,600 gp, a lot more than the Heartseeker Amulet. When you can get it that much earlier in the game, I have issues with it.
Try this on for size.
Wraithstrike
2nd level spell
Cast: Swift Action
Effect- for the rest of this round all your melee attacks are resolved as touch attacks.
(from Complete Adventurer)
Now lets see...
2*3= 6
6*2,000=12,000
12,000/2 (because it's 3 times per day) = 6,000
And divide by 2 for good measure because it's only a partial effect of the spell.
(I know it uses true-strike as the prerequisite to craft it, but the MIC was made with data from most of the books released to that point. I'm sure they saw how much Melee's needed a similar effect and released it for that reason.)
As it is it's really only good for those times you need one super hit, like a smite that has to be fully power attacked or everybody dies. 3 times a day just isn't that good, and 3 times a fight, while not terrible, won't carry you if you get full attacks.
| Cydeth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Yes, I've looked at Wraithstrike, and ban it as well. And the item is based off True Strike, thus I hold it to the same standards. I have had far too many issues with the lack of balance of various supplements to take them without question. Spells like that are interesting, but that item is underpriced in my opinion. It has more potential power in it than any other item in the same price range that I know of. But that's my opinion, and I know that my sense of what's balanced is different than that of some others. I, for example, really dislike shapeshifting, and had banned the Master of Many Forms because of a couple of incidents with out local powergamer, who didn't think she was one. And also showed us the Heartseeker Amulet.
| kyrt-ryder |
Yes, I've looked at Wraithstrike, and ban it as well. And the item is based off True Strike, thus I hold it to the same standards. I have had far too many issues with the lack of balance of various supplements to take them without question. Spells like that are interesting, but that item is underpriced in my opinion. It has more potential power in it than any other item in the same price range that I know of. But that's my opinion, and I know that my sense of what's balanced is different than that of some others. I, for example, really dislike shapeshifting, and had banned the Master of Many Forms because of a couple of incidents with out local powergamer, who didn't think she was one. And also showed us the Heartseeker Amulet.
Different gaming styles I suppose, I've never banned any of that in my game. (infact, a Druid who took Master of Many forms would probably be underpowered for sacrificing his spellcasting, now a wildshape variant ranger who took it, yeah that would be a cool character!)