Can you wear more than one of a single type of ring of wizardry.
Example; Sorcerer who normally has 6 1st level spells puts on a Ring of Wizardry I so that he now has 12... can he put on a second Ring of Wizardry I so that he has 18?
If you say no I guess you could always put on a Ring of Wizardry II and use the second level spell slots to cast 1st level spells?
Thank you
Can you wear more than one of a single type of ring of wizardry.
Example; Sorcerer who normally has 6 1st level spells puts on a Ring of Wizardry I so that he now has 12... can he put on a second Ring of Wizardry I so that he has 18?
If you say no I guess you could always put on a Ring of Wizardry II and use the second level spell slots to cast 1st level spells?
Thank you
Bonuses from the same source do not stack. Ring of wizardry level 1 = Ring of wizardry level 1 meaning no extra spells for two of them.
Can you wear more than one of a single type of ring of wizardry.
Example; Sorcerer who normally has 6 1st level spells puts on a Ring of Wizardry I so that he now has 12... can he put on a second Ring of Wizardry I so that he has 18?
If you say no I guess you could always put on a Ring of Wizardry II and use the second level spell slots to cast 1st level spells?
Thank you
In D&D v3.5 they stacked in the way you describe, but I don't know if that is true in Pathfinder.
Stacking the same Ring of Wizardry has never been allowed, so far as I know, in the rules, pretty much for the reason Abraham gives. A Ring of Wizardry I doubles your *base* 1st level spells per day. Wearing two just "really doubles" that base well - it doesn't triple it, it doesn't add extra slots equal to base, etc.
Such an item, if allowed at all, should cost nearly triple the cost of a base one, from how I calculate it, at a minimum. I could easily see it being exponential and cost 3 million gp for a "Ring of Triple Wizardry I"
Ring of the Archwizard
Double 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th level spell sots.
167,500 gp (to create)
335,000 gp (retail price)
Ring of the Archwizard
Double 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th level spell sots.167,500 gp (to create)
335,000 gp (retail price)
I only get 295K for this (100k 4th, 70k*1.5 3rd, 40k*1.5 2nd, and 20k*1.5 1st).
I only get 295K for this (100k 4th, 70k*1.5 3rd, 40k*1.5 2nd, and 20k*1.5 1st).Ring of the Archwizard
Double 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th level spell sots.167,500 gp (to create)
335,000 gp (retail price)
He doubled them in the opposite order 20k for first 40k*1.5+ 70k*1.5+100k*1.5
He doubled them in the opposite order 20k for first 40k*1.5+ 70k*1.5+100k*1.5
Yeah, the creation of this is from the standpoint that a player will want to create this magic item as they become eligible for the increases. Start with the creation of a Ring of Wizardry I and tack on the rest later.
He doubled them in the opposite order 20k for first 40k*1.5+ 70k*1.5+100k*1.5Yeah, the creation of this is from the standpoint that a player will want to create this magic item as they become eligible for the increases. Start with the creation of a Ring of Wizardry I and tack on the rest later.
The order you create the enhancements wouldn't affect the end price.
The order you create the enhancements wouldn't affect the end price.He doubled them in the opposite order 20k for first 40k*1.5+ 70k*1.5+100k*1.5Yeah, the creation of this is from the standpoint that a player will want to create this magic item as they become eligible for the increases. Start with the creation of a Ring of Wizardry I and tack on the rest later.
See Adding New Abilities (page 553).
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a
character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to
that item increases by 50%.
The order you create the enhancements wouldn't affect the end price.He doubled them in the opposite order 20k for first 40k*1.5+ 70k*1.5+100k*1.5Yeah, the creation of this is from the standpoint that a player will want to create this magic item as they become eligible for the increases. Start with the creation of a Ring of Wizardry I and tack on the rest later.
Actually it really would:
If you start with a 4th level ring of wizardry and add the others then it's going to cost less than if you start with a 1st level ring of wizardry and add the others:
4th down method:
100k (4th level) + 105k (3rd level * 1.5) + 60k (2nd level *1.5) + 30k (1st level *1.5) = 295k
1st up method:
20k (1st level) + 60k (2nd level * 1.5) + 105k (3rd level *1.5) + 150k (4th level * 1.5) = 315k
It's a difference of 20k.
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That being said Pearls of Power (for those that can use them) are much cheaper:
A wizard at 20th level can afford a +6 headband, a tome of Intelligence +5 and 1 9th and 8th level pearl of power, 3 7th and 6th level pearls of power, 5 5th and 4th level pearls of power, 7 3rd and 2nd level pearls of power and 9 first level pearls of power...
That almost doubles his spells per day... add in his bonus spells for high intelligence and he ends up with around 100 spells per day.
That being said Pearls of Power (for those that can use them) are much cheaper:
A wizard at 20th level can afford a +6 headband, a tome of Intelligence +5 and 1 9th and 8th level pearl of power, 3 7th and 6th level pearls of power, 5 5th and 4th level pearls of power, 7 3rd and 2nd level pearls of power and 9 first level pearls of power...
That almost doubles his spells per day... add in his bonus spells for high intelligence and he ends up with around 100 spells per day.
And with all those pearls he looks like a sedate version of Liberace.
Can you use multiple pearls of power like that?
That being said Pearls of Power (for those that can use them) are much cheaper:
A wizard at 20th level can afford a +6 headband, a tome of Intelligence +5 and 1 9th and 8th level pearl of power, 3 7th and 6th level pearls of power, 5 5th and 4th level pearls of power, 7 3rd and 2nd level pearls of power and 9 first level pearls of power...
That almost doubles his spells per day... add in his bonus spells for high intelligence and he ends up with around 100 spells per day.
And with all those pearls he looks like a sedate version of Liberace.
Can you use multiple pearls of power like that?
Absolutely. I generally put them all on a string and make a "necklace" of them. Since they don't actually take up a slot you are free to have them however you want, but I like using them for decoration too...
Use them on the knots of a wimple, or to line the bottom of your mage's robes... whatever you want... they function the same so no big deal on the fluff.
You could put them on normal rings, and when someone looks at you with detect magic, they would think you were realy powerful, since you had more than two magic rings :)
Actually it really would:
Actually, it really wouldn't. The formulae are for estimating the price, not hard and fast rules to be exploited. Identical items are going have identical prices. To rule otherwise is beyond silly.
If you start with a 4th level ring of wizardry and add the others then it's going to cost less than if you start with a 1st level ring of wizardry and add the others:4th down method:
100k (4th level) + 105k (3rd level * 1.5) + 60k (2nd level *1.5) + 30k (1st level *1.5) = 295k1st up method:
20k (1st level) + 60k (2nd level * 1.5) + 105k (3rd level *1.5) + 150k (4th level * 1.5) = 315kIt's a difference of 20k.
Generally my group plays with the rule that anything over 200,000 gp is beyond the ability of non-epic characters but looking around after reading thsi I can't actrually find where that rule came from. Does anyone else play with that rule, anyone have any idea where it came from? Did we make it up?
Just wondering 'cause my first response on reading those prices was WHOA way beyond anyone's ability...
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If you start with a 4th level ring of wizardry and add the others then it's going to cost less than if you start with a 1st level ring of wizardry and add the others:4th down method:
100k (4th level) + 105k (3rd level * 1.5) + 60k (2nd level *1.5) + 30k (1st level *1.5) = 295k1st up method:
20k (1st level) + 60k (2nd level * 1.5) + 105k (3rd level *1.5) + 150k (4th level * 1.5) = 315kIt's a difference of 20k.
Generally my group plays with the rule that anything over 200,000 gp is beyond the ability of non-epic characters but looking around after reading thsi I can't actrually find where that rule came from. Does anyone else play with that rule, anyone have any idea where it came from? Did we make it up?
Just wondering 'cause my first response on reading those prices was WHOA way beyond anyone's ability...
In the Epic Level Handbook for 3.0/3.5 it states that any item worth more than 200kgp is automatically epic. This doesn't necessarily apply to pathfinder, though my group does use this rule.
As for the OP's question, I would allow it since you are either using multiple item slots or paying more, either of which are themselves a balancing factor. Not to mention that you can usually only afford those kinds of items once you have a spell level or two higher than what they grant.
Actually, it really wouldn't. The formulae are for estimating the price, not hard and fast rules to be exploited. Identical items are going have identical prices. To rule otherwise is beyond silly.
Actually it really would:
Actually that's a fairly strict (for pathfinder) thing: Abilities beyond the first added to an item cost 1.5 the cost. The question is which direction you tack things on, and is something to clear with the DM. He might want you to start at the bottom and work your way up... while a player is going to want to start at the top and work his way down.
There IS a difference in price depending on direction. It is a hard and fast rule, the question is how your DM makes you run the prices. After your DM tells you which direction to go all items will have the same price since they'll all go in the same direction, until that point though it could be created either way causing you to have 2 different prices.
The only hard and fast rule of magic item creation is that if you create an item that duplicates the abilities of an existing item then you use the price of the existing item. All of the formulae are guidelines. (Edit:) Some items follow them closely, others do not.(End Edit) The cost of an item is an abstract representation of its power, and therefore its potential affect on the campaign. Identical items have identical prices, regardless of what formulae you use to determine them.
"If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5."
I don't know that seems rather hard and fast to me. Considering this is the exact situation we are talking about.
Now over all yes they are only guidelines but that doesn't mean they should be discounted.
In the end I'm not really disagreeing with you... we both agree that the cost should be the same for similar items... the only question is how you do the math.
Again if you start with a more expensive item and add a cheaper one you'll "save" money compared to starting with the cheaper item and adding in the more expensive one.
In the case of this ring we need to decide which direction you add up the extra abilities in: Do we start expensive and work our way down or start cheap and work our way up. Once we establish how we are doing the math then we can simply do it the same way every time and always end up with the same price.
Until that happens though the math can be worked either way both of which are equally valid. It's up to the individual group to decide how they want to do the math, once decided it should be done the same way each time.
Agreed. (Would, "So say we all!" be to cheesy?)
...and my axe.
Multiple similar abilities (like the ring of wizardry I-IV) use the formula: Single most costly ability, + 75% of the next expensive ability, + 50% of all other costly abilities (page 549 of Core Book).
That would mean the ring would cost:
100,000 (I) + 52,500 (75% of III) + 20,000 (50% of II) + 10,000 (50% of I) = 182,500
However, if you were to go with an item that had different abilities, the highest costing item is normal cost, and all lower costing items is +50% of thier price (page 549 again 560 on the table for Multiple Different Abiltiies).
Lets say we are making a ring of wizardry III that also acts as a ring of regeneration. The ring would cost:
90,000 (regeneration) + 70,000 (III) + 35,000 (50% of III) = 195,000
If you were starting with a ring of regeneration, and were going to add the wiardry II, then it would be another 105,000, But if you were starting with a wizardry III, and adding regeneration, then it would cost an addtional 125,000 (90,000 +35,000).
Multiple similar abilities (like the ring of wizardry I-IV) use the formula: Single most costly ability, + 75% of the next expensive ability, + 50% of all other costly abilities (page 549 of Core Book).
That's for items that don't take up a slot. For those that do take up slots, additional abilities cost 1.5x as much (pg 553). Unfortunately, RAW just says that the new ability costs 1.5x as much if there is an existing ability, which leads to the same items with different costs, depending on how it's constructed.
In my game, I'll recalc the price each time and use the lowest cost ability as 1.0x, and subsequent abilities as 1.5x. For example, a +1 ring of Protection and Shooting Stars will always cost 77,000 (50k x 1.5 + 2k).
If you start with a Ring of pro +1 (2000), it costs 75,000 (50k x 1.5) to add the Shooting Stars ability. However, if you start with a Ring of Shooting Stars (50k), it costs 27k (50k x 1.5 + 2k - 50k) to make it also a Ring of Pro, +1.
The rules work just fine if you always add more expensive enchantments over time, but get weird if you don't.